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Can you add Agile to an Amulet of Mighty Fists?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Agile can only be added to a melee weapon which can be used with Weapon Finesse (unarmed strikes and natural attacks are finessable) so I think Agile can be added - but it is a bit less clear than in many other cases.

And it certainly is a very strong enhancement for any Dex based monk or other unarmed/natural weapon attacker.


The RAW for an Amulet of Mighty Fists is broke for adding special abilities; read it closely:

Amulet of Mighty Fists wrote:
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

(Emphasis Mine)

RAI, it would work, and I wouldn't see why not.

RAW, it doesn't work, because melee weapon special abilities only work with melee weapons; none of them can be applied to Unarmed Strikes themselves (except for the Enhancement bonuses to hit and damage for Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons, since the RAW for that is written properly).


Again, it's fairly straight forward.

If it can be applied to a melee weapon it can be applied to the AoMF.

The effect is sometimes a little ambiguous. like in the case of transformative or throwing.

However, this one is again cut and dry.

sure it seems like it'd be quite powerful in the hands of a dex based character. but it's no more so than a fighter using strength... and not needing to have a weapon ability added to gain his strength bonus to attack rolls.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

The RAW for an Amulet of Mighty Fists is broke for adding special abilities; read it closely:

Amulet of Mighty Fists wrote:
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

(Emphasis Mine)

RAI, it would work, and I wouldn't see why not.

RAW, it doesn't work, because melee weapon special abilities only work with melee weapons; none of them can be applied to Unarmed Strikes themselves (except for the Enhancement bonuses to hit and damage for Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons, since the RAW for that is written properly).

The Amulet explicitly grants melee weapon abilities to unarmed attacks. It doesn't matter that melee weapon special abilities only work with melee weapons, specific overrides general.


Quantum Steve wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

The RAW for an Amulet of Mighty Fists is broke for adding special abilities; read it closely:

Amulet of Mighty Fists wrote:
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

(Emphasis Mine)

RAI, it would work, and I wouldn't see why not.

RAW, it doesn't work, because melee weapon special abilities only work with melee weapons; none of them can be applied to Unarmed Strikes themselves (except for the Enhancement bonuses to hit and damage for Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons, since the RAW for that is written properly).

The Amulet explicitly grants melee weapon abilities to unarmed attacks. It doesn't matter that melee weapon special abilities only work with melee weapons, specific overrides general.

It only grants melee weapon special abilities"if they can be applied to unarmed attacks". If they can't be applied(as he suggested), then they won't be granted.


I read that in a way that doesn't allow things like vorpal unless your unarmed strikes deal slashing damage and the like.


"It can grant melee weapon special abilities but it can't grant this one because it's a melee weapon special ability."

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

Because the english language is the beast it is you can read this rule one of two ways, which is the reason the RAW in this case is so confudled.

1) this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, as long as an unarmed strike is a legal recipient of the effect - example, you cannot gain the benefit of Vorpal unless your unarmed strikes can deal slashing damage OR you cannot enchant it with ranged enchants, because unarmed strikes are not ranged attacks.

2) this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, as long as they could normally be enchanted to an unarmed strike, but since unarmed strikes cannot be enchanted like normal melee weapons, you can't use any of them.

In this case I think its quite obvious which of these interpretations is RAW. The amulet is specifically designed to bypass the issue of 'but you can't enchant your body with Icy Burst' by putting it into the amulet and gaining its benefits.

To answer the OP - Agile can only be applied to a weapon that can gain benefit from Weapon Finesse. Unarmed strikes are light weapons, thus they qualify, thus in can be gained as a benefit from an Amulet of Mighty Fists.


Rycaut wrote:

Agile can only be added to a melee weapon which can be used with Weapon Finesse (unarmed strikes and natural attacks are finessable) so I think Agile can be added - but it is a bit less clear than in many other cases.

And it certainly is a very strong enhancement for any Dex based monk or other unarmed/natural weapon attacker.

Yes, it can be added. Why would there be a question?

-James

Sovereign Court

Goes Boar Style...applies Vorpal.

Sczarni

Hmmm. What happens if I strap on those gloves that add +1d6 acid to unarmed strikes AND have the corrosive ability put on my AoMF? 2d6 acid? Or would they not stack?


It's a different source, no "bonus type" listed for either.... don't see why they would not stack. They would be resisted by acid resistance separately, though.

And yes, Agile works on AoMF.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't think they would stack since they both give the same property to the attack (ie corrosive). Flaming and corrosive would however I believe.


james maissen wrote:
Rycaut wrote:

Agile can only be added to a melee weapon which can be used with Weapon Finesse (unarmed strikes and natural attacks are finessable) so I think Agile can be added - but it is a bit less clear than in many other cases.

And it certainly is a very strong enhancement for any Dex based monk or other unarmed/natural weapon attacker.

Yes, it can be added. Why would there be a question?

-James

Because people like to read too far into things and pick apart semantics and grammar to either support their point or nullify the argument. (I know because I'm likely the biggest destroyer of this tactic through personal pet peeves and professional seperator of RAI interpretations vs RAW references).

Booksy wrote:
The amulet is specifically designed to bypass the issue of 'but you can't enchant your body with Icy Burst' by putting it into the amulet and gaining its benefits.

This is the correct interpretation of RAW/RAI. By saying the RAW is broken by canceling itself out it and thereby not applying to ANYTHING ever is completely silly. Why would they even write it?

What they mean is you can't put Vorpal on your AoMF if you don't have slashing unarmed attacks. If someone else did because they do have slashing attacks, and you gain the Vorpal AoMF, but lack the qualifications, the special weapon property would have no effect on you. You can't put Adaptive on your AoMF because the amulet itself cannot transform your hands from one type of weapon to another. You CAN put things like Agile on it because unarmed attacks qualify for Finesse.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Actually I think you mean Transformative (though personally I think there are cases where as a DM I might allow it - a character with the shapeshifter type for example... could be really amusing) - Adaptive is restricted to Composite Bows (allows them to adapt to any STR bonus)


This came up in our local PSOP group. Can you put something like "Throwing" on it? Some people here are arguing that you can, since Throwing can be put on a melee weapon. LOL @ people ripping their hands off and throwing their fists, or Dhalsim-style...

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Millefune wrote:
This came up in our local PSOP group. Can you put something like "Throwing" on it? Some people here are arguing that you can, since Throwing can be put on a melee weapon. LOL @ people ripping their hands off and throwing their fists, or Dhalsim-style...
Amulet of Mighty Fists wrote:
Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

Star Voter 2014

I'm throwing in my hand.

Grand Lodge

Millefune wrote:
This came up in our local PSOP group. Can you put something like "Throwing" on it? Some people here are arguing that you can, since Throwing can be put on a melee weapon. LOL @ people ripping their hands off and throwing their fists, or Dhalsim-style...

No, it's really for your Half-Orc Barbarian so he can use Halfling Monks as Returning throwing weapons.

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