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Who owns the Rusty Dragon now? [Spoilers]


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

With Ameiko off ruling Minkai, who did she leave in charge of the Rusty Dragon?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

She's left the care of her manor to her house staff and left the running of the business to her employees. (p.24, The Brinewall Legacy)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Huh. That makes sense. So I assume the bar is run by that little Halfling woman who runs to tell the PCs that Ameiko is missing in RotRL?

Isn't it going to be kind of weird for an Empress to own a glassworks and a tavern in a foreign country?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

Nah, plenty of world leaders own holiday houses in foreign countries.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Nah, plenty of world leaders own holiday houses in foreign countries.

The Rusty Dragon isn't much of a summer home....hell, it's not even the nicest inn available in a (relatively speaking) backwater village in the wilds of Varisia.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Don't forget the Kaijitsu mansion/estates in Magnimar, even given their state of neglect and disrepair as of Magnimar: City of Monuments.

Personally, I'm half-inclined to think that after finding herself the sole survivor of the Kaijitsu family in Burnt Offerings, Ameiko considered that the Sandpoint house and the Rusty Dragon were enough for her needs and she either liquidated the Magnimar holdings outright, or perhaps donated them to the city for other uses. (I know I've got an idea what I might make those uses, too....)

(I know that the Anniversary Edition of Rise of the Runelords has Lonjiku disowning and disinheriting Ameiko during their spat in the Rusty Dragon, but the interesting question there is: 'did he have time to pass that information to his lawyers in Magnimar before Tsuto turned him into modern art?')

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Give it a year for an adventure path after demon blight crusade to show what Amaya's done with the places.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Trace Coburn wrote:

Don't forget the Kaijitsu mansion/estates in Magnimar, even given their state of neglect and disrepair as of Magnimar: City of Monuments.

Personally, I'm half-inclined to think that after finding herself the sole survivor of the Kaijitsu family in Burnt Offerings, Ameiko considered that the Sandpoint house and the Rusty Dragon were enough for her needs and she either liquidated the Magnimar holdings outright, or perhaps donated them to the city for other uses. (I know I've got an idea what I might make those uses, too....)

(I know that the Anniversary Edition of Rise of the Runelords has Lonjiku disowning and disinheriting Ameiko during their spat in the Rusty Dragon, but the interesting question there is: 'did he have time to pass that information to his lawyers in Magnimar before Tsuto turned him into modern art?')

Actually, Ameiko is not the sole Kaijitsu survivor. She does have a half-sister: Amaya Kaijitsu. She lives in Westcrown (per Bastards of Erebus).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I thought she was a cousin?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Given what I'm going to do with an upcoming campaign (Rise of the Runelords/Way of the Wicked mashup) that is the jumping-off point for my group for some really long term stuff, I had to do a lot of research. I think Bastards does say that she's a cousin, but Brinewall Legacy says half-sister. And since James Jacobs wrote Brinewall, that takes precedence in my mind (nothing against Mr. Reynolds).

EDIT

Paizo Employee Creative Director

spectrevk wrote:
With Ameiko off ruling Minkai, who did she leave in charge of the Rusty Dragon?

That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.

Taldor Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
With Ameiko off ruling Minkai, who did she leave in charge of the Rusty Dragon?
That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.

She doesn't summon her heir back to Minkai as soon as she has the throne? I realise the Imperial throne can go to a different family, but it would seem like securing the succession would be a major priority, at least to keep things calm in the empire...

In fact, sending a party from Minkai back to Avistan to fetch her would be an interesting homebrew sequel. Though it's unlikely to involve the original party, since they'd be too powerful and busy.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
With Ameiko off ruling Minkai, who did she leave in charge of the Rusty Dragon?
That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.

She doesn't summon her heir back to Minkai as soon as she has the throne? I realise the Imperial throne can go to a different family, but it would seem like securing the succession would be a major priority, at least to keep things calm in the empire...

In fact, sending a party from Minkai back to Avistan to fetch her would be an interesting homebrew sequel. Though it's unlikely to involve the original party, since they'd be too powerful and busy.

Again... exactly how it plays out depends on your campaign. Ameiko could call her half-sister to join her, or she might not. She might just end up selling the Rusty Dragon, giving it to the halfling helper, or something like that. It's not something that we are going to nail down in the world unless we decided at some point in the future to do a sequel to Jade Regent or to officially advance the world's timeline—neither of which is relatively likely to happen anytime soon.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
With Ameiko off ruling Minkai, who did she leave in charge of the Rusty Dragon?
That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.

Half-sister? Did Ameiko's mom really get around that much, or was Amaya one of Lonjiku's indiscretions?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

spectrevk wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
With Ameiko off ruling Minkai, who did she leave in charge of the Rusty Dragon?
That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.
Half-sister? Did Ameiko's mom really get around that much, or was Amaya one of Lonjiku's indiscretions?

All that torrid history is detailed in "The Brinewall Legacy." I can't remember who it was... but I'm pretty sure Amaya was not Lonjiku's kid.


James Jacobs wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.
Half-sister? Did Ameiko's mom really get around that much, or was Amaya one of Lonjiku's indiscretions?
All that torrid history is detailed in "The Brinewall Legacy." I can't remember who it was... but I'm pretty sure Amaya was not Lonjiku's kid.

From your own foreword to The Brinewall Legacy, James:

Quote:
Ameiko is assumed to have survived the events of Rise of the Runelords — if this isn’t the case, and you aren’t interested in retconning her survival, then replace Ameiko in this campaign with her half-sister Amaya, newly arrived in Sandpoint from Westcrown. Although Amaya was born from Lonjiko’s scandalous affair with a Chelish noblewoman in 4680, ...

Which raises the question: was Lonjiku’s fury over Tsuto’s mixed heritage because Atsuii decided that 'two can play that game', in defiance of 'her duty of loyalty to her husband'? Or was it because Tsuto being half-elven meant he couldn’t maintain the facade of a happy, faithful, respectable marriage - a direct hit to his image and pride? Either way, if Lonjiku expected her to stay faithful when he couldn’t or wouldn’t, he was a colossal hypocrite (on top of his many other 'charming' qualities).

Adds a bit of shading to how one might portray the character in the Runelords AP, doesn’t it? ;)


I had placed Amaya as Lonjiku's, concieved prior to his marriage, which was arranged.

I have notes, possibly from a post on these boards at some point, making her born in 4680, and thus older than either Tsuto (4688 according to RotRL AE) or Ameiko (4689 according to Brinewall legacy).

So, I guess it's all up to the individual GM.


Spiral_Ninja wrote:

I had placed Amaya as Lonjiku's, concieved prior to his marriage, which was arranged.

I have notes, possibly from a post on these boards at some point, making her born in 4680, and thus older than either Tsuto (4688 according to RotRL AE) or Ameiko (4689 according to Brinewall legacy).

So, I guess it's all up to the individual GM.

As you’ll note in my post above, that '4680' number for Amaya’s birth-date is established in AP#49. ;)

Come to think of it, depending on the rules of succession, as the eldest Amaya might be considered the rightful princess-in-exile and Ameiko the 'spare to the heir'. And wouldn't that add something to the caravan's journey to Tian Xia - if Amaya showed up out of the blue and helped tell Ameiko the real story? Maybe she and Ameiko are both on the whole trip together? As you note, character survival, GM fiat, and each campaign's RP could decide who inherits, who stays as a back-up until the inheritor has an heir of their own direct line, and who decides to come back to their 'real' life in Avistan....

(Hmm... that gives me another idea - off to make a note to myself....)


Trace Coburn wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:

I had placed Amaya as Lonjiku's, concieved prior to his marriage, which was arranged.

I have notes, possibly from a post on these boards at some point, making her born in 4680, and thus older than either Tsuto (4688 according to RotRL AE) or Ameiko (4689 according to Brinewall legacy).

So, I guess it's all up to the individual GM.

As you’ll note in my post above, that '4680' number for Amaya’s birth-date is established in AP#49. ;)

Come to think of it, depending on the rules of succession, as the eldest Amaya might be considered the rightful princess-in-exile and Ameiko the 'spare to the heir'. And wouldn't that add something to the caravan's journey to Tian Xia - if Amaya showed up out of the blue and helped tell Ameiko the real story? Maybe she and Ameiko are both on the whole trip together? As you note, character survival, GM fiat, and each campaign's RP could decide who inherits, who stays as a back-up until the inheritor has an heir of their own direct line, and who decides to come back to their 'real' life in Avistan....

(Hmm... that gives me another idea - off to make a note to myself....)

Thanks. I did probaby see it in #49, but didn't remember the source.

As for succession, I thought the phrase was eldest legitimate issue, regardless of gender. So, Amaya stays 'back-up' unless there's something we don't know abut Lonjiku and her mom...hmmmm....

Taldor Contributor

Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Trace Coburn wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:

I had placed Amaya as Lonjiku's, concieved prior to his marriage, which was arranged.

I have notes, possibly from a post on these boards at some point, making her born in 4680, and thus older than either Tsuto (4688 according to RotRL AE) or Ameiko (4689 according to Brinewall legacy).

So, I guess it's all up to the individual GM.

As you’ll note in my post above, that '4680' number for Amaya’s birth-date is established in AP#49. ;)

Come to think of it, depending on the rules of succession, as the eldest Amaya might be considered the rightful princess-in-exile and Ameiko the 'spare to the heir'. And wouldn't that add something to the caravan's journey to Tian Xia - if Amaya showed up out of the blue and helped tell Ameiko the real story? Maybe she and Ameiko are both on the whole trip together? As you note, character survival, GM fiat, and each campaign's RP could decide who inherits, who stays as a back-up until the inheritor has an heir of their own direct line, and who decides to come back to their 'real' life in Avistan....

(Hmm... that gives me another idea - off to make a note to myself....)

Thanks. I did probaby see it in #49, but didn't remember the source.

As for succession, I thought the phrase was eldest legitimate issue, regardless of gender. So, Amaya stays 'back-up' unless there's something we don't know abut Lonjiku and her mom...hmmmm....

At least in the RW, children of concubines and such did (often did, in fact) inherit the Imperial throne in both China and Japan. But eldest and legitimate had much more importance in Europe in the Medieval period than it ever did in Asia.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Trace Coburn wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
That's something that we left to each GM to decide. My assumption would be that it would indeed go to Amaya Kaijitsu. Who is indeed her half-sister—Bastards of Erebus got it wrong. Or more to the point, we changed it since then to fit the family's backstory better.
Half-sister? Did Ameiko's mom really get around that much, or was Amaya one of Lonjiku's indiscretions?
All that torrid history is detailed in "The Brinewall Legacy." I can't remember who it was... but I'm pretty sure Amaya was not Lonjiku's kid.

From your own foreword to The Brinewall Legacy, James:

Quote:
Ameiko is assumed to have survived the events of Rise of the Runelords — if this isn’t the case, and you aren’t interested in retconning her survival, then replace Ameiko in this campaign with her half-sister Amaya, newly arrived in Sandpoint from Westcrown. Although Amaya was born from Lonjiko’s scandalous affair with a Chelish noblewoman in 4680, ...

Which raises the question: was Lonjiku’s fury over Tsuto’s mixed heritage because Atsuii decided that 'two can play that game', in defiance of 'her duty of loyalty to her husband'? Or was it because Tsuto being half-elven meant he couldn’t maintain the facade of a happy, faithful, respectable marriage - a direct hit to his image and pride? Either way, if Lonjiku expected her to stay faithful when he couldn’t or wouldn’t, he was a colossal hypocrite (on top of his many other 'charming' qualities).

Adds a bit of shading to how one might portray the character in the Runelords AP, doesn’t it? ;)

Lonjiku is indeed a colossal hypocrite, in that he felt it was okay for him to sleep around, but not okay for his wife to sleep around. The fact that Tsuto was half-elven was only proof that he couldn't have been his son—had Atsuii slept with a human instead of an elf, she could possibly have tricked Lonjiku into believing the child was in fact his.

He's not a nice guy, in other words.

Spoiler:
Tsuto and the goblins actually do Minkai a HUGE favor by making a glass statue out of him.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Lonjiku is indeed a colossal hypocrite, in that he felt it was okay for him to sleep around, but not okay for his wife to sleep around.

I hate realism in my fantasy.

:)

(j/k- I only just picked up RotRL:AE the other day, and am only just now on Chapter Two, but Lonjiku's obvious hypocrisy and the relationship there between him, Ameiko, and Tsuto- not to mention the paralles between Tsuto and Nualia- were the elements of Burnt Offerings that I found most enjoyable, in that they really grounded the story with very human motives.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

In my game the Chelish heir Amaya was replaced with a PC (Rorrin) a half-elf. He was told his mother was Ameiko's mother.

Spoiler:
In fact he's the bastard of Lonjiku, who seduced an elf of his own for vengeance. Fun campaign reveal for later. ;-)


Jeff Erwin wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Trace Coburn wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:

I had placed Amaya as Lonjiku's, concieved prior to his marriage, which was arranged.

I have notes, possibly from a post on these boards at some point, making her born in 4680, and thus older than either Tsuto (4688 according to RotRL AE) or Ameiko (4689 according to Brinewall legacy).

So, I guess it's all up to the individual GM.

As you’ll note in my post above, that '4680' number for Amaya’s birth-date is established in AP#49. ;)

Come to think of it, depending on the rules of succession, as the eldest Amaya might be considered the rightful princess-in-exile and Ameiko the 'spare to the heir'. And wouldn't that add something to the caravan's journey to Tian Xia - if Amaya showed up out of the blue and helped tell Ameiko the real story? Maybe she and Ameiko are both on the whole trip together? As you note, character survival, GM fiat, and each campaign's RP could decide who inherits, who stays as a back-up until the inheritor has an heir of their own direct line, and who decides to come back to their 'real' life in Avistan....

(Hmm... that gives me another idea - off to make a note to myself....)

Thanks. I did probaby see it in #49, but didn't remember the source.

As for succession, I thought the phrase was eldest legitimate issue, regardless of gender. So, Amaya stays 'back-up' unless there's something we don't know abut Lonjiku and her mom...hmmmm....

At least in the RW, children of concubines and such did (often did, in fact) inherit the Imperial throne in both China and Japan. But eldest and legitimate had much more importance in Europe in the Medieval period than it ever did in Asia.

Wouldn't she have had to be an official concubine and not just some woman he dallied with along the way?

Taldor Contributor

The NPC wrote:
Jeff Erwin wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:
Trace Coburn wrote:
Spiral_Ninja wrote:

I had placed Amaya as Lonjiku's, concieved prior to his marriage, which was arranged.

I have notes, possibly from a post on these boards at some point, making her born in 4680, and thus older than either Tsuto (4688 according to RotRL AE) or Ameiko (4689 according to Brinewall legacy).

So, I guess it's all up to the individual GM.

As you’ll note in my post above, that '4680' number for Amaya’s birth-date is established in AP#49. ;)

Come to think of it, depending on the rules of succession, as the eldest Amaya might be considered the rightful princess-in-exile and Ameiko the 'spare to the heir'. And wouldn't that add something to the caravan's journey to Tian Xia - if Amaya showed up out of the blue and helped tell Ameiko the real story? Maybe she and Ameiko are both on the whole trip together? As you note, character survival, GM fiat, and each campaign's RP could decide who inherits, who stays as a back-up until the inheritor has an heir of their own direct line, and who decides to come back to their 'real' life in Avistan....

(Hmm... that gives me another idea - off to make a note to myself....)

Thanks. I did probaby see it in #49, but didn't remember the source.

As for succession, I thought the phrase was eldest legitimate issue, regardless of gender. So, Amaya stays 'back-up' unless there's something we don't know abut Lonjiku and her mom...hmmmm....

At least in the RW, children of concubines and such did (often did, in fact) inherit the Imperial throne in both China and Japan. But eldest and legitimate had much more importance in Europe in the Medieval period than it ever did in Asia.
Wouldn't she have had to be an official concubine and not just some woman he dallied with along the way?

Nope. See here.

The First Emperor of China was the son of a Qin prince and another person's concubine. Hence not legitimate in any sense.


Jeff Erwin wrote:

Nope. See here.

The First Emperor of China was the son of a Qin prince and another person's concubine. Hence not legitimate in any sense.

Elcor Mode: ON

I see. *Curious* What about the Japanese tradition?

Taldor Contributor

The NPC wrote:
Jeff Erwin wrote:

Nope. See here.

The First Emperor of China was the son of a Qin prince and another person's concubine. Hence not legitimate in any sense.

Elcor Mode: ON

I see. *Curious* What about the Japanese tradition?

The Japanese tradition was carefully based on the Chinese, at least by the medieval period. The only hard rule was patrilineal ancestry (in some case, clearly questionable) to the early emperors. Illegitimacy was irrelevant.

In practice, things were somewhat more strict, since there were far less changes of dynasty - only changes of the branch of the imperial family. Most emperors were the children of concubines, not the official wife, however. In some cases, a proxy was brought in to father dynastic heirs if the emperor was not able.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

In my game the Chelish heir Amaya was replaced with a PC (Rorrin) a half-elf. He was told his mother was Ameiko's mother.

We did something similar, in that a modified version of Amaya was a PC in our JR campaign. We made her younger than Ameiko to avoid succession issues, and had her only recently returned from the okiya in Magnimar she was shuffled off to when her "mother" died. A stretch, undoubtedly...but it gave her some weight as a spare for Ameiko *and* allowed her to be a Bard (Geisha).

Edit:

All of which is great fun now for me as a GM...having run our group through Jade Regent, one of the players is GMing Shattered Star for us while I go back and prepare to run RotR AE. I've been taking careful notes of everything we did/do to *hopefully* preserve continuity, lol.

Andoran

Well Ameiko does have several younger siblings living at the Manor in Sandpoint so maybe she leaves it to one of them.

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