"Greetings, fellow citizens of mighty Taldor!" begins a small, grey gnome with brown hair, wearing a brightly colored version of the latest Taldor fashion, but with a hideously large hat.

"Due to my overwhelming success representing Taldor in many adventures for the Pathfinder Society, I've been offered the reward of a noble title by Prince Stavian III himself! I was given my choice of titles, and I was just wondering what the rest of you think would sound better: Lord Garblenarf, Baron Garblenarf, or Viscount Garblenarf? I wonder if I can talk him into letting me be Baron Lord Garblenarf - I think such a large title would be appropriate given my many past accomplishments."

"Any thoughts on which you think would be most appropriate for a gnome of my stature?"

Lady Violetta d'Armand Countess du Plessis, an azure-skinned, silver-haired human woman of extraordinary beauty, looks thoughtful for a moment.

Well, first of all, "Lord" isn't a really a noble title; it's an means of address. You'll be "Lord Garblenarf" regardless of the title you select.

Of the other two - Baron and Viscount - Viscount is the "better" title... but I suspect you're looking for the sort of "poetry" of how a noble title fits your name. So, I think it's worth considering what fits nicely with a Gnomish name. Gnome, to the Taldane ear, has a rough, gutteral - no offense - quality to it, which to me suggests an Ulfen title. Considering the Ulfen Guard, there is certainly precedent for the Taldan use of Ulfen titles; those lands should be under our rule anyway.

So, "Baron" might suggest "Freiherr", but this is, frankly, a lesser sort of title in Ulfen than in Taldane, and there really isn't the equivalent of "Viscount" in Ulfen (Viscount being a title traditionally with judicial functions, something not practiced in barbaric lands). I would reach a bit higher to the equivalents of "count" or "earl", such as "graf".

Graf Garblenarf? I think it works nicely.

A little Gnomish Graf! I do adore gnomes - I had one as a pet, once - and I do look forward to seeing you in the aristocratic "scene".

OOC: In the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, it says Taldor faction PCs with 20 fame can spend 1 fame for a noble title, and lists all the possibilities. "Lord" and "Lady" are on that list, which seemed a little odd to me. I don't know why, but I think Lord, Baron, or Viscount would go best with my PCs name. For a half-crazed gnome who doesn't actually care about political power and just wants the title because it sounds cool, that's the most important part.

Dears the fashionable title is Marquis.

Dears the fashionable title is Marquis.

Oh Righty, I'm afraid you're wrong on this one!

It is true that Marquis is the loftiest of titles proffered by our dearest Stavian, but any student of nobility and peerage will point out that it is hardly fashionable.

Consider the origins of the title: a landed Marquis governs the marches of the land, those border regions far from the Imperial center; it's an important role, historically, to be sure, but dominion over rustic hinterlands does not charming company make.

The more developed, civilized, interior divisions of land - counties - are presided over by Counts (and Countesses), an element of nobility far more likely to participate in Court life and urbane, fashionable society.

Not that the Marquis, stomping around the pristine wilderness on a country outing in his armor and muddied boots, is any less aristocratic a figure - it's a great trope of nobility, certainly - but the elegant Countess receiving well-dressed visitors in her salon is always going to be more fashionable.

Country Mouse versus City Mouse, if you will.

Count or Countess - or the Uflenized Graf or Graffen - are the most fashionable titles. If such considerations matter, of course!

"I went with the title of Baron. I also hired a herald to introduce me. It worked out quite nicely at the wedding I just attended. Those Blackros sure know how to throw a party!

--Yzarctihstab, Lord Baron of House Garblenarf, Sorcerer of the Verduran Forest of Taldor"

I must concur with Lady Violetta. One's title reflects one's sphere of influence. For myself, this is the Northern March of Galt. As you seem to have some sway in the Verduran Forest, did you consider petitioning the Crown for the title of Sheriff?

Righty_ wrote:

Dears the fashionable title is Marquis.

Oh Righty, I'm afraid you're wrong on this one!

It is true that Marquis is the loftiest of titles proffered by our dearest Stavian, but any student of nobility and peerage will point out that it is hardly fashionable.

Consider the origins of the title: a landed Marquis governs the marches of the land, those border regions far from the Imperial center; it's an important role, historically, to be sure, but dominion over rustic hinterlands does not charming company make.

The more developed, civilized, interior divisions of land - counties - are presided over by Counts (and Countesses), an element of nobility far more likely to participate in Court life and urbane, fashionable society.

Not that the Marquis, stomping around the pristine wilderness on a country outing in his armor and muddied boots, is any less aristocratic a figure - it's a great trope of nobility, certainly - but the elegant Countess receiving well-dressed visitors in her salon is always going to be more fashionable.

Country Mouse versus City Mouse, if you will.

Count or Countess - or the Uflenized Graf or Graffen - are the most fashionable titles. If such considerations matter, of course!

All true, but I'm afraid that one simply cannot be a countess and a Pathfinder. All those juicy interior regions are spoken for. So better a Marquise than a lackey viscountess, wouldn't you say?

(OOC: Count/Countess are conspicuously absent on the list, though given the presence of generic 'lord', who knows if that is intentional. Still, for now count and countess are not legal titles for the Noble Title prestige award.

I had actually wanted Cordelia to be a Countess, but I chose Marquise when it wasn't available.)

OOC: Well, a female "Earl" is a Countess - so, Earl being on the list, Countess essentially is, as well. (An "Earl" is an Anglo-Saxon word which equates to "Count" and which, for some reason, persisted in Norman Britain.)

The list of noble titles in the Guide were not well thought out, obviously (or were poorly researched.) At the very least, Taldan noble titles should be limited to those found in continental Europe, since Taldor, thematically, has pretty much nothing to do with British culture.

That said, I see no reason why one might not use thematically reasonable "equivalents" to the listed titles (like Graf), or correct gender variations on them!

OOC: Well, a female "Earl" is a Countess - so, Earl being on the list, Countess essentially is, as well. (An "Earl" is an Anglo-Saxon word which equates to "Count" and which, for some reason, persisted in Norman Britain.)

The list of noble titles in the Guide were not well thought out, obviously (or were poorly researched.) At the very least, Taldan noble titles should be limited to those found in continental Europe, since Taldor, thematically, has pretty much nothing to do with British culture.

That said, I see no reason why one might not use thematically reasonable "equivalents" to the listed titles (like Graf), or correct gender variations on them!

(OOC: Yeah, the list isn't great. I'll admit I was a bit mystified by earl being on there as well. From what I've seen, there is no female equivalent of earl, though it's true that countess is considered an equal-rank title. However, given that viscount and viscountess are both on there, as well as marquis and marquise, and every other gender pairing, I don't think it's safe to take the title countess, which isn't on the list. It seems that it should be, given marquise is technically higher in rank. I know that (Abra)Duke and Duchess were granted by special boons at one of the Grand Convocations to a select few, so it seems that they reserve the right to give titles not on the list on special occasions, hence why I'm leery of taking a title that isn't specifically listed; we could be stepping on the toes of someone who received (or will receive) a special boon. If there's a change on the titles allowed, I'll most likely edit Cordelia to be a countess.)

I simply cannot believe titles have been reduced to "fashion", though perhaps for those who may simply purchase said title it is truly nothing more than that. Please know, dear Garblenarf, this is not directed towards you and I do congratulate your achievement.

Those who have earned title through deed, who view it as a responsibility and not a flippant accessory to go with their outfit of the day, seem to be in the minority unfortunately. For Taldor to reclaim her rightful place, this should change and change soon.

OOC: Sarina actually did earn her title through real life action. During Paizocon 2009, Greg Vaughn wan manning the Taldor station and gave Sarina the task to "retrieve" the Qadiran representative's (played by Neil Spicer) turban. Neil was wearing a Carolina Panthers baseball cap and, being from NC myself, I struck up a conversation, asked if I could take a closer look at his hat, told him I would be right back and dropped the hat on the table in front of Greg. The look on his face was priceless.

I made the Diplomacy roll for title (with a modifier for acheiving the tasks quite literally) and from that moment on, Sarina van Hoek was Abraduchess Sarina van Hoek.

I am glad we take such merriment in this discussion.

My expectation is titles are unlanded, hence the writ entitles you merely to look the part... much like shoes. Hence the term fashionable. Thus definitions of location are by and large irrelevant. Marquis flows freely, like a good rum. So in the acquisition of this title and the amount of rum required for its appropriation were equivalent.

Although I do have my eyes set on an island estate...once my prestige can afford that added luxury. Do stop by for an afternoon of rum tea. If your constitution can match your title we'll have a glorious time.

Good evening to you all. (Takes a long draw from a mug of Dwarf Stout.) I am Dargrin, Son of Dalgrim and Erigga. I recently have risen above my humble status as a common dwarf brewer and ranger, to accept a title, recognized by both the human nation of Taldor, and my people of the Five Kings Mountains. As an agent of Torag and His Family, I have been granted an unofficial ambassadorship to Taldor, for which I have participated in many missions to ensure that both the Dwarf race and the nation of Taldor regain their former might and glory. That is why I have been granted and have accepted the title of Lord, but I however have chosen to use the dwarven translation of the title. Hence, I am now known and addressed as Thane Dargrin.

I would suggest that any other members of my people who find themselves being granted a title by our noble allies also adopt the dwarven translation, to pay remind us of the greatness of our people, and to recognize the mighty alliance between dwarfkind and the nation of Taldor.

Greetings fellow Nobles of the mother land. I recently had the pleasure of earning a noble title as well, which I was having a dilemma over. The title Marquis did appeal to me but on further consideration (being called a tent by a fellow player - Australian humor at its finest I'm afraid), I've taken up the title of Baron. Thus I will refer to myself as Lord Baron Dovian of House Voltiac.

Been working for taldor all my life, and to be honest lords and ladies, i think maybe a bit of hard work maybe be for a title but i like taking things that don't belong to others and bringing it back to taldor its my gift to you lords and ladies

a due

Tony lupin

I've chosen my title to be the Marquis du Ruum. Its levity matches the vintage. Should I ever purchase that fine island estate, be certain that I'll rename it Islay du Ruum. Perhaps my noble peers will shun my choice, but titles like a fine Rum are truly appreciated by their owners moreso than their viewers.

I have recently gained a title, but I was trying to determine a surname. What are a few examples of said surnames to go along with my title? FYI I am a Taldan human male.

"Well, then, Jorvick," Christopheros says to the newcomer. "It doesn't happen often, at least it didn't used to... However, when one of the lower classes is granted a noble title, they usually take the name of their hometown as a surname. However, I have heard of tales that the newly created noble takes something significant in his life as the title. Remember the tale of Ioustinos Boarslayer? Of course you don't... Long story short, he saved the baron of his village from a boar while out hunting and was granted a noble title. Must have been a mighty large boar..."

If Taldor is supposed to be modeled on Byzantium, why are its titles not modeled on Byzantium Imperial titles?.
Why use English, Anglo-saxon, Germanic, French or any other Western Roman derivative when Taldor is supposed to be modeled on the Eastern Roman Empire?

OOC: Because nowhere in the canon is the country Taldor is supposed to be modeled on actually specified, and the only mention of actual titles comes from the Field Guide. So we're really just taking shots in the dark here.

-Matt

OOC: I've been modelling my Taldan characters as ERE/Byzantine, for what it's worth.