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Compatible Products from Other Publishers

Sczarni

Can I get some opinions on Super Genius Games? what do you all think? how compatible and balanced are they with Pathfinder? has anyone had any problems with their material being over powered or "Broken"?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I've bought and used a lot of their products and I'm a big fan. Everything seems to be balanced, for the most part. Definitely not seen anything that shouldn't be used due to being overpowered.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They and Rite publishing are the two third party publishers I buy from most frequently. I have found their products to be well balanced, creative, and most important to me...fun!

I would definitely recommend their products.


I have many SGG books, liked some more than others, but overall they have good quality. My party regularly uses SGG's classes. We have a Death Mage in Carrion Crown, Shadow Assassin and Armiger in Way of the Wicked...
If you are not sure, try to buy some Bullet Points PDF's. Little and very cheap documents. If you don't like them, you lose nearly nothing, and if you like them, you can buy some books more.

Scarab Sages

I've got a number of their books, and I really like them.
Well balanced classes/feats often with an interesting team to them.
I have a general rule in games I run that if it comes from SGG it can be used.

Liberty's Edge

I'm a big supporter of SGG. I probably won't allow godlings in a game where everyone isn't a godling (alternatively, I may allow the non-eldritch godlings to put non-casters on a level with casters, but eldritch godlings are definitely out for anything I run). Beyond the godlings, I have no problem with anything they have and am always happy to have people play SGG stuff in games I'm either running or involved in. (One other exception, I personally dislike spell books, IMO there's plenty of spells already, but if someone found a cool spell in a SGG book I wouldn't turn it down just because of the source.)

Same goes for Rite Publishing and Dream Scarred Press.


I am a big fan of SGG. So much so you might actually want to disqualify my opinion on the basis I am biased.

I find their stuff to be both the most interesting AND the most balanced of all 3pp. In general I think it's better balanced that Paizo's support material.

There are a very few things I've modified for balance concern, but the ratio is actually lower than for the core books (there's nothing as bad as Antagonize, for example).

Is there a specific book or line you are considering using? It sounds like a lot of us would be happy to give you directed feedback if we knew what you were looking at?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This isn't a slam of Paizo, but I allow a higher percentage of SGG material than I do Paizo. There's only been one or two instances in the SGG corpus that I have where I thought: that's overpowered.


I have about 75% of their stuff and I allow all of it in my games. That being said, just like with anything else you should look it over and make sure it fits your style of game. Some of their stuff may not be what you're looking for and some of it may be exactly what you're looking for.

One thing I really like about SSG is the customer service. Owen is very active in answering questions and generally is open to giving advice. SSG also likes to put things on sale, which is a great time to buy. You just missed a 52% off sale.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Tales Subscriber

They're generally very good.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have just about all of SGG's products and I love them. If anything they tend to air on the side of caution when it comes to power, and I would say it is of the same quality of what paizo has produced or better. Their devs are very good at frustrating ones inner munchkin if balance is a concern. Their products are well thought out and fun to use. And for the most part they get blanket approval in my games, something that not even the hardcover rpg books have.


I adore Super Genius Games. I use there stuff. A lot. I don't think I actually have any active characters that don't at least have a couple of SGG feats.

As an added bonus, if you post a question on here then nine times out of ten you'll have an answer within the day.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Kolokotroni wrote:
I have just about all of SGG's products and I love them. If anything they tend to air on the side of caution when it comes to power, and I would say it is of the same quality of what paizo has produced or better. Their devs are very good at frustrating ones inner munchkin if balance is a concern. Their products are well thought out and fun to use. And for the most part they get blanket approval in my games, something that not even the hardcover rpg books have.

'err on the side of caution'

err

Meaning they'd rather make the error of (too much) caution than the error of recklessness.[/pedant]

They actually claim to 'err on the side of awesome!'


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Many of the SGG, Rite Pub, and Kobold Pres writers freelance for regular Paizo products, so there is a good chance you have used material from the designers of those companies already. I personally LOVE SGG's products and use them.


I have many, many of their Pathfinder products. By far, they are my favorite 3pp. Interesting classes and new takes on magic, as well as great new feats just keep me coming back. And it doesn't hurt that their customer service is beyond awesome!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Good stuff, even the stuff I'll never use is well thought out. EG: the recent spell point system is very good, but I'm locked into the HypertextD20. If one of my players bought the SGG system and wanted to use it, I would allow it.

I always scavenge their specials on RPGnow.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm a Dungeon-A-Day subscriber so I get access to everything SGG releases. It really depends on where your level of balance lies if SGG is going to be right for your game or not. Owen has a tendency to experiment with pushing the power curve every now and again so some of it might seem a bit much (Eldritch Godling - AKA Sorcerer++), but as a whole, they're one of the most reliable 3PP for crunchy bits like classes and feats.

Sczarni

Thank you all. I had a player who wanted to play a class from one of their books and wanted to make sure that I had nothing to worry about about the class. thanks for the input and I think we might start buying some SSG books in the future


What's the class? Maybe we can give you more specific input on balance or what to watch out for.


As evertone has already said; they do good work. I've been very happy with their material. Some I have used, some has been inspiration for thing I've homebrewed and some I probably will not use. But it has all been quality material. Not all of it will suit a given campaign, but that's true of everyone's stuff including Paizo.


Kvantum wrote:
Owen has a tendency to experiment with pushing the power curve every now and again so some of it might seem a bit much (Eldritch Godling - AKA Sorcerer++)

I actually find the eldritch sorcerer as balanced as all their other options -- which is to say very balanced!

You know one of my group thought the eldritch godling was a sorcerer-but-better, and decided to play one to prove how overpowered they are. It didn’t work. Here’s why.

First, eldritch godlings have no favored saving throw. That’s a 2-point save difference at 1st level and it grows to be a 6-point save difference. If an eldritch godling wants to resist the spells most likely to take you out of a fight – Will saves – she has to put some resources into it. In play, running an eldritch godling and a sorcerer side-by-side, the sorcerer is much more resilient to save-or-stop-playing spell effects.

Eschew components. Sorcerers get this as a bonus feat at 1st level. Eldritch godligns don’t. This pretty well counterbalances the advantage godlings have in avoiding concentration checks and their spells being more likely to keep working in the face of dispels. In-play, the sorcerer’s ability to ignore digging up material components came up right about as often as the eldritch godling ignoring concentration checks.

Spells per day. This one is huge. An eldritch godling gets one less spell per day at every spell level. Especially since casting spells with you maximum saving throw is generally the most effective thing a spellcaster can do (and you higher-level spells are clearly your most useful) this is a *major* check to eldritch godling power. By 9th level (a fairly typical “sweet spot”) the eldritch godling gets 10 fewer spell levels/day to cast. When that means you are both one black tentacles short of the sorcerer in the first fight of the day, and one lightning bolt short in the second, and it only gets worse as resources dwindle, it shows how curtailed an eldritch godling can be. Of course if you run games where spellcasters never come close to running out of even their highest-level spells this may not come up much, but in that case your fighters are going to be pretty unhappy too. (Unless your spellcasters are just being cautious, in which case it DOES come up, since the eldritch godling must be MORE cautious).

And while it is true an eldritch godling can pick up some bloodline powers with divine traits, ANYONE can pick up some with eldritch heritage.

Eldritch godlings are cool, and we’ve had a few in our games. But they’ve never proven overpowered, and we still have more sorcerers, wizards, and oracles than godlings of any type.

Paizo Employee Contributor; Developer, Super Genius Games

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I can't tell you all how much it warms my heart to see such an outpouring of support. And I love knowing things we've released, things I have written, have added fun to the lives of so many great gamers.

So, yeah, I like SGG books (except Winter Ravagers.... skip that one -- and do not expect game balance in Horrifically Overpowered Feats). But I am, likely, biased. :D

Liberty's Edge

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I think by far, the best, most balanced and most fun SGG releases are:

Genius Guide to the Vanguard
Genius Guide to Exalted Domains (3 volume series)
Advanced Options: Cavaliers' Orders
Advanced Options: More Cavalier Orders
Krazy Kragnar's Magic Staff Emporium

That's just my personal, completely unbiased opinion of course :)

Minister of Propaganda, Super Genius Games

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Thanks everyone! It's good to know that keeping Owen chained to his chair and the succubus with a whip on speed dial has been so well received.

;)


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I'd put forward the position that a significant body of Super Genius Games material demonstrates a sounder understanding of the balance of the Pathfinder system, and frequently achieves better balanced material than the standard from Paizo. Quite often, even if something appears unbalanced on first impression, actual play results (following the rules) show that the material is well balanced or possibly even slightly underpowered (I'm thinking of the Dragonrider here).


While I don't use all of them, they all had consistently good (and some, great) writing and ideas that added a lot of options to the Pathfinder system. My favorites include:
- The Genius Guide to the Death Knight
- The Genius Guide to Martial Archetypes
- Advanced Options - Cavaliers' Orders
- Advanced Options - More Cavalier Orders
- The Vile Magic of Argonax the Mad
- All the feats books (in particular, The Genius Guide To Feats Of Battle)

Even The Genius Guide to Horrifically Overpowered Feats has some use - it is a fun read and you could make a wacky one-shot session with all the overpowered feats just to see what happens when game balance is thrown out the window.


Mmm... Overpowered feats as extra Mythic options... could be interesting, there where good ideas.
One class I really liked was the Mosaic Mage (white specially) but the lack of good lists of spells by schools without class limitations make it nearly imposible to work with the class.

Scarab Sages

There's some sample characters made up using SGG rules for Paizo Con in this thread, that might give you an idea (from reading their tactics and looking at their class abilities) how some would balance out in play.


I have like 35 booklets from SGG, and they are pretty handy. I don't own many of the classes, but I do for races, options, archetypes, feats, items, spells and monsters. So far, pretty good stuff ^_^

However, I'm gonna be honest, I'm a bit disappointed by the Dragonrider class. I just don't like how the mount was stated out.
- The dragon mounts are based on the 10 iconic dragons.
- Most of them are medium until you level up so they can grow to large.
- While you can ride medium dragons, you'll probably be carrying to much stuff and your dragon's gonna be heavy-loaded pretty quickly.

The rest of the abilties work fine; I'm just having trouble with the size. I personally would have prefered to get mount similar to a drakkensteed (from WotC's Dragon Magic), which is already strong and large enough to carry a rider and it would get stronger as I level up, except that it wouldn't change size. Or that the actual dragon is already large enough to carry you. and follow the dragonrider's progession for its abilities. I'm just having problems with the size. Some get Large/Huge/Gargantuan, some get Medium/Large/Gargantuan and some get Small/Medium/Gargantuan... there's a little inconsistency problem here.

The class can work if you're starting with a 8th-level character, but before that, your mount is gonna be weak for quite some time, and that's my big with the class, unless you have access to magic items to boost the mount's Strength score to make it adequate to carrying you.

Aside from that little thing, the books at SGG are great ^_^

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Alaryth wrote:

Mmm... Overpowered feats as extra Mythic options... could be interesting, there where good ideas.

One class I really liked was the Mosaic Mage (white specially) but the lack of good lists of spells by schools without class limitations make it nearly imposible to work with the class.

Found a site that might help on the mosaic mage front - SRD Remix.

I might be making an optimization guide to the mosaic mage at some point (if I ever get time) and I plan on using this site if I get around to writing it.

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