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Void Mage legal?


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?

****

What book are they from?

Taldor *

It's an Arcane School from the Dragon Empires Primer and ya it's legal.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
RtrnofdMax wrote:
It's an Arcane School from the Dragon Empires Primer and ya it's legal.

Spellbinder too?

Taldor *

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes, that too.

Here is the one stop shop for all of your legality answers.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
RtrnofdMax wrote:

Yes, that too.

Here is the one stop shop for all of your legality answers.

Bookmarked - and thanks!

Now I just need to find a local PFS table to play at...

*****

Wiggz wrote:
RtrnofdMax wrote:

Yes, that too.

Here is the one stop shop for all of your legality answers.

Bookmarked - and thanks!

Now I just need to find a local PFS table to play at...

Check out the events page for local games. You can also try contacting your nearest Venture-Officer for more information.

Grand Lodge **

Wiggz wrote:
I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?

This sounds vaguely familiar... And yes from what I can tell completely legal. I want you at my table. So that you can buff the abomination of a fighter I'm considering. Dual-wield scorpion whips plus whatever buffs you grace me with.


Kiinyan wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?
This sounds vaguely familiar... And yes from what I can tell completely legal. I want you at my table. So that you can buff the abomination of a fighter I'm considering. Dual-wield scorpion whips plus whatever buffs you grace me with.

You know that Scorpion whips aren't light weapons, even though you can use weapon finesse with them?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Myron Pauls wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
RtrnofdMax wrote:

Yes, that too.

Here is the one stop shop for all of your legality answers.

Bookmarked - and thanks!

Now I just need to find a local PFS table to play at...

Check out the events page for local games. You can also try contacting your nearest Venture-Officer for more information.

True to form, absolutely nothing in Louisiana - ever - but thanks for those links as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Kiinyan wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?
This sounds vaguely familiar... And yes from what I can tell completely legal. I want you at my table. So that you can buff the abomination of a fighter I'm considering. Dual-wield scorpion whips plus whatever buffs you grace me with.

Heh - that Reveal Weakness has got to be the best Wizard power I've seen, in with the elven favored class bonus I could pretty much do it every round. Figure I could combine it with some nice Quickened save-or-suck spells...

I'm in the process of trying to decide which spells to choose as 'spell bond' options and which spell I eventually want to make the object of Spell Perfection... I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Suffocate (sticking with the void theme and all that).

Grand Lodge

Wiggz wrote:
Kiinyan wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?
This sounds vaguely familiar... And yes from what I can tell completely legal. I want you at my table. So that you can buff the abomination of a fighter I'm considering. Dual-wield scorpion whips plus whatever buffs you grace me with.

Heh - that Reveal Weakness has got to be the best Wizard power I've seen, in with the elven favored class bonus I could pretty much do it every round. Figure I could combine it with some nice Quickened save-or-suck spells...

I'm in the process of trying to decide which spells to choose as 'spell bond' options and which spell I eventually want to make the object of Spell Perfection... I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Suffocate (sticking with the void theme and all that).

Whoa... thinking about Quickened Metamagic already. That's certainly thinking far ahead...

And Spell Perfection, which you can't get till 15th Level... where the max level for normal play is 12...

Not saying it's a bad idea, just telling you that that's a long way's away.

Also, have you looked at the trait Magical Lineage, from the APG? If you're into Metamagicking stuff, that's a great place to start.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.

Grand Lodge **

Funky Badger wrote:


Kiinyan wrote:


Wiggz wrote:
I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?
You know that Scorpion whips aren't light weapons, even though you can use weapon finesse with them?

Whips are one-handed weapons. As of Ultimate Combat, however, scorpion whips are light. Additionally, the only difference between one-handed and light is a mere -2, and I'm stacking plenty of to-hits to make my hit chance better. And if they change back to one-handed at any point, I'll still eat the penalty, because it will simply be cool to dual-wield whips.

Completely irrelevant, but how do I do multiple quotes without getting these big spaces? I'm still not good with the text formatting.


Kiinyan wrote:


You know that Scorpion whips aren't light weapons, even though you can use weapon finesse with them?
Whips are one-handed weapons. As of Ultimate Combat, however, scorpion whips are light. Additionally, the only difference between one-handed and light is a mere -2, and I'm stacking plenty of to-hits to make my hit chance better. And if they change back to one-handed at any point, I'll still eat the penalty, because it will simply be cool to dual-wield whips.

Completely irrelevant, but how do I do multiple quotes without getting these big spaces? I'm still not good with the text formatting.

Ha... so they are. That's got to be a missprint, the bloody things are heavier than normal whips!

I'd be careful going down that route though, according to UE they don't have Reach either...

No idea about the formatting...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
zean wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Kiinyan wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
I know that wizards aren't very common in PFS play which naturally makes me want to build one. I've recently decided on a favorite - an Elven Wizard & Spellbinder who selects the elemental void as his specialization. I haven't been able to figure it out yet (browsing the truly exhaustive list of banned options for PFS), so I figured I'd ask here: is either the Spell-binder or the Void mage illegal for PFS play?
This sounds vaguely familiar... And yes from what I can tell completely legal. I want you at my table. So that you can buff the abomination of a fighter I'm considering. Dual-wield scorpion whips plus whatever buffs you grace me with.

Heh - that Reveal Weakness has got to be the best Wizard power I've seen, in with the elven favored class bonus I could pretty much do it every round. Figure I could combine it with some nice Quickened save-or-suck spells...

I'm in the process of trying to decide which spells to choose as 'spell bond' options and which spell I eventually want to make the object of Spell Perfection... I'm leaning pretty heavily towards Suffocate (sticking with the void theme and all that).

Whoa... thinking about Quickened Metamagic already. That's certainly thinking far ahead...

And Spell Perfection, which you can't get till 15th Level... where the max level for normal play is 12...

Not saying it's a bad idea, just telling you that that's a long way's away.

Also, have you looked at the trait Magical Lineage, from the APG? If you're into Metamagicking stuff, that's a great place to start.

I'm kind of mixing my intent to play this character in a local game and a hope to play it in a PFS setting... although I will say a Quickened Charm Person or Blindness spell is certainly an option in PFS play.

I really love this character concept, though the void element spell selection could certainly be expanded upon...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.

Very nice...

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Wiggz wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.
Very nice...

And found by a lot of GMs and other players to be annoying and adolescent, fwiw.

Grand Lodge ***

I hate that combo, gets so annoying.

Also, don't forget elemental mages can take Opposition Research at level 5, and have no cross class schools on their list. Its very nice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Worldbuilder wrote:

I hate that combo, gets so annoying.

Kyle Baird wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.
Very nice...
And found by a lot of GMs and other players to be annoying and adolescent, fwiw.

Adolescent? Annoying? I can't imagine why - low level mages have so little they can actually do as it is...

Qadira ***

Worldbuilder wrote:

I hate that combo, gets so annoying.

Also, don't forget elemental mages can take Opposition Research at level 5, and have no cross class schools on their list. Its very nice.

Ermmm... Opposition Research requires 9 wizard levels.

Grand Lodge ***

Wiggz wrote:
Worldbuilder wrote:

I hate that combo, gets so annoying.

Kyle Baird wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.
Very nice...
And found by a lot of GMs and other players to be annoying and adolescent, fwiw.
Adolescent? Annoying? I can't imagine why - low level mages have so little they can actually do as it is...

At low levels its probably not so bad, though I haven't had to deal with it with anyone less than 5th level yet. The annoying part is the entire battlefield going prone, or the almost guaranteed knock down on the BBEG who gets 5 trip attacks against him. And usually its a sorcerer who is using that spell 9 times a day and nothing else in his 1st level spell slot. I've had it spammed so much its pissed me off as a player, and I was benefiting greatly from it.

Belafon wrote:


Ermmm... Opposition Research requires 9 wizard levels.

Ahhh, my bad, I thought it was 5th for some reason. You are correct though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Worldbuilder wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Worldbuilder wrote:

I hate that combo, gets so annoying.

Kyle Baird wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.
Very nice...
And found by a lot of GMs and other players to be annoying and adolescent, fwiw.
Adolescent? Annoying? I can't imagine why - low level mages have so little they can actually do as it is...

At low levels its probably not so bad, though I haven't had to deal with it with anyone less than 5th level yet. The annoying part is the entire battlefield going prone, or the almost guaranteed knock down on the BBEG who gets 5 trip attacks against him. And usually its a sorcerer who is using that spell 9 times a day and nothing else in his 1st level spell slot. I've had it spammed so much its pissed me off as a player, and I was benefiting greatly from it.

Belafon wrote:


Ermmm... Opposition Research requires 9 wizard levels.
Ahhh, my bad, I thought it was 5th for some reason. You are correct though.

Heh - annoying because its effective then. Honestly, my void mage has been looking for some sort of effective offense/defense in the low to middling levels... I was planning on leaning heavily on Color Spray, but this option seems to suit him better - hopefully the people I play with won't be as sick of seeing it as some have apparently become.


Kyle Baird wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.
Very nice...
And found by a lot of GMs and other players to be annoying and adolescent, fwiw.

Really? That's pretty lame.

Andoran ***

Funky Badger wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.
Very nice...
And found by a lot of GMs and other players to be annoying and adolescent, fwiw.
Really? That's pretty lame.

Tripping can be pretty annoying, even to your party, if handled wrong.

When I am running my trip builds, I always check with the other players if they mind my using that on whatever opponent I am thinking about tripping. In general, the players don't seem to mind it. Heck, some of them go out of their way to ask me to use that trip attack.

GMs, though, can be harder to please. A decent trip build, in a humanocentric campaign like PFS, can do a lot of nasty lock-down effects against many of the opponents you run across. And, for modules like the Ruby Phoenix Tournament, which is also very humanoid centered, it can neuter much of the module, which can be a real turn-off for both the other players and the GM.

In other words, make sure everyone is okay with your primary tricks. And have some sort of backup available. My highest level trip build now has a way to switch to doing moderate damage. My mid-level trip build has always had a damage mode, since that one is a strength build instead of a dex build.


I don't think it is the fault of the player for using something powerful. Obviously tabletop games like DnD and Pathfinder are full of incredibly silly overpowered things, that is the nature of the beast, but the player is never at fault for wanting to maximize.

Andoran ***

CWheezy wrote:
I don't think it is the fault of the player for using something powerful. Obviously tabletop games like DnD and Pathfinder are full of incredibly silly overpowered things, that is the nature of the beast, but the player is never at fault for wanting to maximize.

Don't take me wrong, I tend to min/max a bit myself (My archer is still considered by some to be overpowered, or the go-to PC for doing real damage. In my experience, in games I have played with him, others, including other archer builds, can do more damage.)

What I was trying to say is just to make sure you save the uberness for either when your party is on the ropes, and that can mean the difference between winning or a TPK, or make sure your tablemates buy-in. Don't ruin everyone's fun by one-shotting all the enemies before anyone else has a chance to make a contribution.

You may be running Superman, but make sure that you don't just leave Batman sitting off to the side, drinking coffee and watching you do all the work. Unless that is how Batman likes to play...

Grand Lodge **

Worldbuilder wrote:
At low levels its probably not so bad, though I haven't had to deal with it with anyone less than 5th level yet. The annoying part is the entire battlefield going prone, or the almost guaranteed knock down on the BBEG who gets 5 trip attacks against him. And usually its a sorcerer who is using that spell 9 times a day and nothing else in his 1st level spell slot. I've had it spammed so much its pissed me off as a player, and I was benefiting greatly from it.

I'm lucky I've never seen this. In the case of your sorcerer and other spontaneous casting, I recently found an interesting clause most people ignore. It's in the CRB under metamagic feats, but if you spontaneously cast a metamagic spell, it's a full round cast. I've seen people move and spontaneously cast a metamagic spell, so thought I'd throw it out there, don't know how relevant it is.

Osirion ****

The trip thing is frustrating/cheap for a couple reasons:
1. you've got a low level guy knocking down the opponents with little risk
2. whereas a fighter type needs to invest a couple feats and risks being tripped or losing their weapon
3. and except for the archer archetype (which gets a huge penalty to trip) there's no other way to trip from range

So you have to look at it within the context of the party dynamic to understand why GMs and other players might be annoyed.

Andoran *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Greg Hurst wrote:
3. and except for the archer archetype (which gets a huge penalty to trip) there's no other way to trip from range

Gunslinger 7th Level (Granted it is 7th level!) Auto Trip

Targeting (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can make a single firearm attack and choose part of the body to target. She gains the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that part cannot be targeted. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform no matter which part of the creature she targets. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are immune to these effects.

  • Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone. Creatures that have four or more legs or that are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.


Greg Hurst wrote:

The trip thing is frustrating/cheap for a couple reasons:

1. you've got a low level guy knocking down the opponents with little risk
2. whereas a fighter type needs to invest a couple feats and risks being tripped or losing their weapon
3. and except for the archer archetype (which gets a huge penalty to trip) there's no other way to trip from range

So you have to look at it within the context of the party dynamic to understand why GMs and other players might be annoyed.

The mage has to invest in a feat as well and can do the trick X times per day.

I'm filing this one under: petty whining I don't really understand.

:-)


Greg Hurst wrote:

The trip thing is frustrating/cheap for a couple reasons:

1. you've got a low level guy knocking down the opponents with little risk
2. whereas a fighter type needs to invest a couple feats and risks being tripped or losing their weapon
3. and except for the archer archetype (which gets a huge penalty to trip) there's no other way to trip from range

But this is how Pathfinder works?

The fighter or whoever has to invest a bunch of feats, make his rolls, and get close enough so he can do his thing, and the wizard just goes "Oh look I have a spell for free that does all you do and more"

It is fair because wizards are gods and the other classes aren't allowed to approach them


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Netopalis wrote:
If you're looking for a good low-level metamagic combo, consider Toppling Spell + Magical Lineage + Magic Missile. I love that combo.

The better combo is with spiritual weapon.1 round per level trip with multiple trips for high bab. Granted its against the same person. And the range is in credible.

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