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Keep your (Su) abilities and covert whatever (Sp) abilities you can, but no more magic. No spells, no enchantments, magic items, scrolls, potions, etc

What would the game play like?


Very different.

Requires massive alterations to creature CRs.

And you will remove some iconic classes, so expect a lot of stories to be impossible.


Well I think magic lends itself to a lot of the "silly" stuff that happens in d20.

While you couldn't tell LoTR, Dragonlance, or Conan the Barbarian, maybe you could tell stuff like the Battle of Troy or some more grounded stuff (you would still have SU). I could see a conversion for Druid, Bard, and the partial spell caster classes. Sorc, Wiz, and Magus going away.

Btw, not really suggesting this. Just a thought experiment.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Well it would be worth checking out the Game of Thrones D20 game. There they had practically no magic...healing or other wise.

You would probably have to limit your classes to fighter, rogue, barbarian, Cavalier.....

It would certainly be a different game. Oh another game to check out would be Midnight....by fantasy flight games.. In that game they removed clerics from the available player character classes. They have some advice in the end of the main rule book on how to deal with pesky undead with ability drain etc.

It would certainly make things different. You might want to think of some sort of Defence bonus....for character classes,

Without scaling magical armor....those base attack bonuses keep increasing, and the AC that armor provides remains static with out magical enchantment.

Just a few thoughts.

Grand Lodge

Well, if that was the case... you would have to change some racial traits,Intelligence and Charisma would become crapshoot statistics (who needs them? They're good only for spellcasting.) and Wisdom only not becoming bad because of will saves and perception. The party would be made out of a bunch of fighter/Stalwart Defenders and Barbarians to put down the foe before it puts them down. You would also have to change traits, remove the hero point sytsem AND the planes, encounters would become a lot more mundane, and... AARRGGH!


Very good points, both of you.

I think Charisma would suffer the most. Intelligence would still be a little useful (for skill points). I suppose they would still be useful regarding skills that are based on them but they would be seriously moved down the list of stat priorities for any class.

The one thing I can see is healing is gonna suffer. Lost HP? Sorry buddy- no can do on that healing. Better make a heal check and do some long term care because it's going to be a LOOONG night.


Palladium's ninjas and superspies or revised recon anyone?


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Monks would dominate the game.


Scott_UAT wrote:

Very good points, both of you.

I think Charisma would suffer the most. Intelligence would still be a little useful (for skill points). I suppose they would still be useful regarding skills that are based on them but they would be seriously moved down the list of stat priorities for any class.

The one thing I can see is healing is gonna suffer. Lost HP? Sorry buddy- no can do on that healing. Better make a heal check and do some long term care because it's going to be a LOOONG night.

I think the stats would still keep some of their importance, particularly due to feats (e.g. combat expertise for int).

Charisma will still see some use, particularly since you stated to keep Su-abilities - which includes bardic performance, channel energy, etc. Also, if you want to be good in social situations you still need a decent if not even high charisma.

Some classes have Su forms of healing, e.g. cleric, paladin, witch.

Avoiding damage would become the priority, so mobility, tactics, stealthing and ultimately avoiding enemy and going for ranged combat would probably be direct effects.
You might also want to look at armor as DR rules since your armor is not going to keep up anyway.


For sure, damage mitigation rather then healing would be the name of the game. I think players would be really scared to go up against a BBEG if they knew their healing wouldn't work.

DR for armor might not be a bad idea. Hell, if Pathfinder got THAT lethal it might not even be a bad idea to allow the AC bonus & the DR.

For those of you who are not familiar by the way: Armor as DR

Taldor

I would definitely suggest incorporating some form of Vitality and Wounds for this sort of game. What's important is that Vitality naturally heals very quickly, like character-level-per-hour quickly.

-Matt


You would have to take a long hard look at most of the game. Pathfinder is all about resource management. Almost every class magic or not has some kind of per day resource they need to watch out for. The amount you get is based on how much you are expected to use in a 3-4 encounter day. Without magic in particular healing, that 3-4 encounter day goes out the window. That makes all of that resource management null and void and thus will throw those abilities out of balance. IE a paladin who is able to smite every time he fights, will be far more powerful then a typical paladin who untill higher levels can only smite in SOME of hit encounters, but not all.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Monks would dominate the game.

Suddenly I wanna play a game without magic. Or at least have my party travel to an Anti-Magic Plane...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Dot.


Kolokotroni wrote:
You would have to take a long hard look at most of the game. Pathfinder is all about resource management. Almost every class magic or not has some kind of per day resource they need to watch out for. The amount you get is based on how much you are expected to use in a 3-4 encounter day. Without magic in particular healing, that 3-4 encounter day goes out the window. That makes all of that resource management null and void and thus will throw those abilities out of balance. IE a paladin who is able to smite every time he fights, will be far more powerful then a typical paladin who untill higher levels can only smite in SOME of hit encounters, but not all.

Very interesting point. There would have to be a good deal of re-working for resource management as getting the HP (a resource) for 3-4 encounters and maintaining it before much HP is restored would also be a challenge to re-balance.

And as far as having HP regen a lot quicker, it might be more interesting to look into mundane equivalents. I agree though, the amount healed per day would have to improve.

If I recall correctly currently it's like your level in HP per day. Maybe 5x or 10x if you wanted to be nice? If you didn't, maybe x2?

Then again, having a fighter who just got the hell beat out of him by a bear have to take a week off to heal his wounds might not be a bad idea. Even if you wanted to do a time skip and let people heal (and allow them to use profession/craft), it could actually enhance the stakes a little bit.

After writing this all I am starting to see the 3-4 encounter per day thing being more and more unlikely for a non-magic variant. Maybe have a minor encounter or two on an adventure with some spot healing to maintain the group via some source until they face the final encounter on an adventure and then have to take a week or two off until they are ready to go again might be a more appropriate encounter pattern then 3-4 a day.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

The old d20 Modern system was fairly similar to what Pathfinder would look like without magic, at least mechanically. Healing goes out the window, so your mortality rate rises pretty drastically. No wishes and teleporting though, so your adventure lay-out stays basically consistent throughout all tiers of play. Your game would basically be the same old crawl with increasingly powerful monsters and maneuvers. The play style would lose the evolution that comes about with magic and access to things like teleportation, flight, invisibility, etc. You'd basically have a game where the numbers just kept getting bigger.


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We're playing a game set in the American Revolutionary War. Most of the PCs are fighter/ranger, fighter/gunslinger builds using archetypes to remove or replace anything not suited to the time period (such as armor training), and with a few levels in NPC classes to round out their professions and in-town abilities (plus to get a few extra hit points so they don't immediately die versus Cthulhu-type creatures). The urban ranger archetype and the brawler are getting a workout.

One PC has levels in barbarian (sort of a comical nod to a Scottish Highlander type).

The only fully magical character is an alchemist. We felt this fit because the player is actually playing an historical figure who was very mysterious in real-life, and we thought it would be fun to incorporate this into his "missing years" and more mysterious aspects.

Finally, one of the PCs has levels in adept. This is to get mainly healing spells. She plays it as if she is a magnificent healer and a spiritual person who does not realize there is a magical component to it. However, healing remains rare, which means high body count (so far only NPCs, but a PC death is to be expected at almost any time), and also more "realistic" downtime between missions.

Slowly, as the obligatory Evil Cult has been more and more introduced, more and more magic has crept in, though nobody but the alchemist yet understands how to use any magical items (or even if any of the items they have found IS magical at all).

The players are loving it. The player of the alchemist says this may be the most fun he's ever had in a game (we've both been playing since the early '80s). He is keeping his magic close to the chest, and acting more like an investigator/scientist for the British at the moment (hasn't yet made it to Colonial Rhode Island). The challenge of dealing with interdimensional elements as normal fighter types has been a lot of fun for the group as a whole, but then we've run modern games set in Silent Hill, so a few of the players actually have previous experience with this sort of thing.

The trick to these sorts of things is to ramp up story elements and to provide clues and puzzles in the game which help the fighter types "investigate" their way out of trouble spots where magic might once have been a solution.

And on a more specific, trivial note, it helps to change some DR types to silver, to fit the prevailing folklore of the age (or what we perceive as such, anyway).

Of course, my example is really a super-low-magic campaign, not really a none-at-all. But it gives you an idea.


That's pretty interesting Bruunwald :-)

Can I ask what historical figure he's playing? Sounds interesting!

d20 modern did some things right and some things wrong. Never liked the obligatory stat based character archytypes. It was a little lacking in creativity in my mind.

I don't know though... I think allowing players access to greater challenges and letting their class features be the focal point of their "power" might feel more impressive. Like style feats for a monk (those 3rd feats man... some are really fun!) or having a PC get a prestige class. I think it would be more then just bigger numbers.


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Generally, just some ideas, you probably need to consider changes like this:
- Change CR if stat bonuses are greater than (CR+5)/2 - this keeps some of the big to hit monsters in check (tunable of course)
- Allow class DR and armor DR to stack
- Add some damage ratings like damage d=rolled damage-DR. d up to hitdie of character is nonlethal, afterwards it's lethal. Critical hits are always lethal -> This allows characters to endure more.
- Allow some kind of attack-dodging mechanic, e.g. acrobatics check against 10 + attack roll - you dodged it when you made it. Should allow you to implement the nimble fighters in classic settings.
- Allow something like the duelists parrying ability as a standard feature for all purely martial classes
- Increase all skillpoints by 2 to even out things that are not available through items
- More mundane item counters, e.g. real antidots that cure instead of just provide a bonus against poisons, material that is highly resistant to fire etc.
- Consider giving out bonus teamwork feats every 5 levels or so - PCs get some boosts and it encourages teamwork further
- Prayers and similar spiritual "motivations" increase natural healing ratio
Stuff like that :-)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One variant I used based on the Star Wars d20 vitality/wounds is the altering of critical hits (I'm not familiar with the PF version, so I'd check that out).

Effectively, when a weapon criticals it deals wound damage and vitality damage both (simulating the x2 aspect of criticals in PF).

If had a critical multiplier higher than x2 (x3 or x4 in almost all cases), the crit range would increase instead (so a normally x3 weapon would become a 19-20 and a normally x4 weapon would become an 18-20). This actually made several of the higher multiplier but lower-range weapons suddenly much more powerful because of their already high damage and the ability to add keen to increase it further.

This made a very interesting game, and it's been quite fun though I nearly TPK'd the first group I ever tried it in with the first fight they ever had. They survived, but barely.

Later levels worked out a bit better.

I'm still thinking about this, but there've been some great ideas so far.


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I know there's a d20 game for low-magic fantasy, called Iron Gauntlets. I haven't played it, so I don't know how good it is. it might be worth mining for ideas, though.

Shadow Lodge

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It wouldn't be a game for me. I might suggest taking a look at the E6 rules though. Might be something your intereted in.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I ran something like this on an online game for awhile; one thing I did was remove the creature types with an overabundance of "magical" abilities.. you can get a lot of mileage out of animals, aberrations, humanoids, giants, etc in this kind of game. Once you start introducing outsiders and dragons with spells or SLAs shelling the party the game unbalances greatly.

Using the Wounds and Vigor system is pretty vital to sustaining the encounter per day ratio in the same neighborhood as a regular game.

A big consideration for the game is that every class you have in it has to be able to contribute to combat effectively. I had a kind of expert class which looked great on paper but lacked any combat power and the player using it really felt useless.

Andoran

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Tacticslion wrote:

One variant I used based on the Star Wars d20 vitality/wounds is the altering of critical hits (I'm not familiar with the PF version, so I'd check that out).

Effectively, when a weapon criticals it deals wound damage and vitality damage both (simulating the x2 aspect of criticals in PF).

If had a critical multiplier higher than x2 (x3 or x4 in almost all cases), the crit range would increase instead (so a normally x3 weapon would become a 19-20 and a normally x4 weapon would become an 18-20). This actually made several of the higher multiplier but lower-range weapons suddenly much more powerful because of their already high damage and the ability to add keen to increase it further.

This made a very interesting game, and it's been quite fun though I nearly TPK'd the first group I ever tried it in with the first fight they ever had. They survived, but barely.

Later levels worked out a bit better.

I'm still thinking about this, but there've been some great ideas so far.

In the Pathfinder Wounds and Vitality system (UC), a crit does the following:

Critical Hits: When a creature is subject to a critical hit, the critical hit deals the damage normally, reducing vigor points first, and then reducing wound points when vigor points are gone. It also deals an amount of wound point damage equal to its critical multiplier (for example, 3 wound points for a weapon with a ×3 modifier), on top of any wound point damage the creature might take from the critical hit.

So, if you have a x3 multiplier and do [1d12+2] damage to a creature normally, on a crit you do [3d12+6] damage and 3 wound points. At an average of 33 damage plus 3 wounds.

So if your opponent was 1st level fighter with 14 con (assuming Fav Class bonus put to VP), he has 11 VP and 28 WP. He would take all 10 of his VP, and 26 WP, and be pretty close to dead.

The same 1st level fighter in regular PF would have 13 HP and a -14 death threshold and would have been dead.

That fighter at 6th level, let's say has 44VP and 28 WP, or 53 HP. He takes the same damage. He's down 33 VP and 3 WP, or 33 HP.

Resting overnight, he regains all of his Vigor and 1 WP. Or he heals 6 HP. With V&W he has 2 damage the next day, with HP, he has 27.

Andoran

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Here is my original post for that game. It was before Wounds and Vitality I now realize. I was using something like SW Saga heavily modified.

Spoiler:
Interest check for a “Low Fantasy” Pathfinder Game.

Consolidated/Updated Summary of House Rules and Character Creation

Characters will start at 7th level and we will be using the slow progression experience chart.

The following classes are available:
Alternate Barbarian
Explorer(Expert with the following modifications: Good Reflex saves, Bonus general (only) feats at 1st,2nd, and every other level thereafter, Loremaster lvl 5/11/17, Jack-Of-All-Trades lvl 10/16/19
Fighter (4 skill points per level)
Monk with the following modifications: deals unarmed damage amount with monk special weapons instead of the weapon’s normal damage dice, still mind replaced with pounce.
Ranger with the following modification: choose one form of hunter’s bond at level one, gain the other at level 4. If you choose animal companion at 1st level, you do not subtract 3 from your level. No spellcasting abilities.
Rogue
Swashbuckler
Vanguard

The following races are available:
Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Hobgoblin, Human, Orc, Tengu (No Half Breeds)

Starting Equipment:
Choose from +2 Armor, a +1 Mithral Armor, or Bracers of AC+3.
OR
A +1 weapon with a +1 quality OR three +1 weapons.
OR
Two minor items from the ring or wondrous item charts.
AND
300 gold to spend on other gear.

NOTE: magic Items will not be for sale or able to be sold, so pick things you actually want. Also, in this vein, feel free to send me a list of “also wants” with your character sheet. As rarely as magic items will come up, I will try to make sure they’re off these want lists.

Only the following monster types will be used: Animals, Dragons, Humanoids, Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, Plants, Vermin

Vitality, Health, and Healing

Vitality

Vitality represents the ability to turn potentially deadly wounds into scratches, bumps, bruises, etc. Throughout most combat, it is your character’s Vitality that will be reduced by attacks. As your character grows in level, his Vitality will increase, allowing him to survive longer battles and/or deadlier opponents. Your Vitality is figured the same way Hit Points are figured in standard play: maximum Hit Die plus Con Modifier at first level, roll the Hit Die and add Con Modifier for every level after that.

Health

Health represents more serious wounds, ones that will take time to heal, and could potentially be life threatening. Characters take Health damage when their Vitality is depleted and from Critical Hits. Once the character’s Vitality reaches 0, all damage is marked off the Character’s Health. On a Critical Hit, the damage from the dice rolled is applied to Health instead of Vitality, and any bonus damage comes off Vitality.

If a Character’s Health reaches 0 or below, the character gains the staggered condition until his Health is brought above 0 by healing. If A Character’s drops to a negative amount greater than his Constitution score but less than his maximum Health score, he is helpless and must make a Will Save with a DC equal to the amount of negative Health he has each round to remain conscious and able to speak. Once his Health is a negative amount equal to or greater than his maximum Health, he must make a Fort save a DC equal to the amount of negative Health he has each round or perish.

Health is figured with the following formula:

Constitution Score + Racial Modifier* + Hit Die Modifier**

*Racial Modifier

A Character gains a one-time bonus to his Health based on his race:
+5 Health: Dwarf, Hobgoblin, Orc
+3 Health: Gnome, Human, Tengu
+1 Health: Elf, Goblin, Halfling

**Hit Die Modifier

Each time a Character gains a Hit Die, he gains a bonus to his Health according to the following chart:

Hit Die Bonus
D12 +3
D10 +2
D8 +1.5
D6 +1

Healing

Vitality is recovered fairly quickly, as all it takes is giving your muscles a chance to recover and regaining your wind. A Character heals 1 point of Vitality per level per hour of rest. If he is being given Long-Term Care (see Heal Skill pg 98-99), he doubles that rate (2 Vitality per level per hour.)

Health recovers under the standard rate of 1 per level per 8 hours of rest, and is treated as Hit Points for all the other entries under the Heal skill.

Optional Grievous Wounds Rule:

If brought below a negative amount of Health equal to or greater than your Constitution Score, you have received Grievous Wounds and heal much more slowly until you are brought above 0 Health by healing. Your healing rates (including Vitality) are all dropped to ¼ normal (round down) during this time.

Armor as DR

From Unearthed Arcana.

Armor grants DR/- equal to half its listed armor bonus (round down) and the armor bonus is reduced by the amount of DR granted. Natural Armor grants DR equal to 1/5 its listed amount (rounded down) and the natural armor bonus is reduced by the amount of DR granted. All DR/- from armor, natural armor, and class features stack. All other armor traits remain the same (Max Dex, check penalty, etc.) Shields do not provide a DR bonus.

Armor Type DR Armor Bonus
Padded 0/- +1
Leather 1/- +1
Studded Leather 1/- +2
Chain Shirt 2/- +2
Hide 2/- +2
Scale Mail 2/- +3
Chainmail 3/- +3
Breastplate 3/- +3
Splint Mail 3/- +4
Banded Mail 3/- +4
Half-Plate 4/- +4
Full Plate 4/- +5

It’s a trap

Taking no damage is better than having the damage reduced by 4. Add to this little access to magical armor and protective gear, and you’ll be getting slaughtered. So, to avoid this trap becoming too deadly, we’ll add ½ your level (round down) to your AC as long as you are proficient in whatever armor you’re wearing, or if you are unarmored.

I am currently running an online game with Pathfinder's V&W system and I like it better. Also, I still say Armor as DR is a trap.


Darth Grall wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Monks would dominate the game.
Suddenly I wanna play a game without magic. Or at least have my party travel to an Anti-Magic Plane...

No, antimagic plane makes the monk even worse versus martial classes, but what the OP is suggesting makes qinggon monks very strong spell casters,


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Scott_UAT wrote:
What would the game play like?

Melee is screwed without convenient out of combat healing ... it's a high risk, no reward method of fighting to begin with in PF ... without healing, forget about it.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Dot.

Dot 2: The Return


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

:)


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Pathfinder with little to no Magic is pretty simple and not that bad. As long as you stay away from Dragons and such.

If they are fighting say... Orc Warriors and such then it is fine.

Also you might want to recheck your Highlander Facts because most Highlanders were Fighters most Lowland Scots were Barbarians.


Great ideas guys!

Never been a HUGE fan of wound track systems in PF but it's not inherently bad.

Maybe include a "medic" in place of a cleric? Allow them to retain some of the HP restoration capacities but limit it's use IN combat?

-Scott

(PS: We actually have a class like this written up, edited, and playtested. We are just waiting for the rest of the dev cycle to catch up with us on that. I think it's the 3rd in the chamber.)


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I have a Combat Medic archetype for the Bard it reduces Spellcasting in favor of Healing SLAs and such.

I am also working on a conversion of the Healer Class from 3.x Miniature Handbook. Or at least I believe it is the Miniature Handbook.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Scott_UAT wrote:

Keep your (Su) abilities and covert whatever (Sp) abilities you can, but no more magic. No spells, no enchantments, magic items, scrolls, potions, etc

What would the game play like?

Pretty good! I'm playing a pathfinderised version of Darwin's World (post apocalyptic modern-ish game) and it plays just great, especially with a few optional rules from UC thrown in.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You might want to check out the game Iron Heroes.

Cheliax

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I've always wanted to run Pathfinder (D&D) with a Final Fantasy 6 feel to it. At the start of the campaign, magic is essentially dead, except in the "Empire" that is actively trying to bring it back. Never really got around to it though.


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Evil Genius Prime wrote:
I've always wanted to run Pathfinder (D&D) with a Final Fantasy 6 feel to it. At the start of the campaign, magic is essentially dead, except in the "Empire" that is actively trying to bring it back. Never really got around to it though.

I have done this. It is really fun.

Especially when you let the players decide which side of the story they are on. The "Empire" or the "Rebels". Yes, I just referenced Star Wars. I am sorry.


I tried to run a "low magic" game like LoTR... my players steamrolled that and now have all +4 magic items, etc. Players get what players want XD


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Low magic has always interested me. I don't have the time to re-write the game system though, so a no-magic campaign goes too far. Plus I like playing wizards, clerics, etc.

In the end, I think low/no magic is more of a lark than a continual playstyle. Eventually the people who like playing spellcasters with hundreds of options and tons of magic items would get tired of saying "I hit it."

Not to mention that without magic healing...you would have to use a "healing surge" type system, or its equivalent. Non bueno.


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Bruunwald wrote:
We're playing a game set in the American Revolutionary War. Most of the PCs are fighter/ranger, fighter/gunslinger builds using archetypes to remove or replace anything not suited to the time period (such as armor training), and with a few levels in NPC classes to round out their professions and in-town abilities (plus to get a few extra hit points so they don't immediately die versus Cthulhu-type creatures). The urban ranger archetype and the brawler are getting a workout.

I'd like to see a writeup for that campaign. Who is the alchemist playing?


darth_borehd wrote:
Bruunwald wrote:
We're playing a game set in the American Revolutionary War. Most of the PCs are fighter/ranger, fighter/gunslinger builds using archetypes to remove or replace anything not suited to the time period (such as armor training), and with a few levels in NPC classes to round out their professions and in-town abilities (plus to get a few extra hit points so they don't immediately die versus Cthulhu-type creatures). The urban ranger archetype and the brawler are getting a workout.
I'd like to see a writeup for that campaign. Who is the alchemist playing?

I would also love to see a writeup.


lol I think you have peaked our interest Bruunwald

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Adventures come down to two things... Battle and Recovery. If you want your heroes to go from battle to battle they need a recovery mechanism. If you take away spells or magic, you need to put in a recovery mechanism like TSR did with their Conan/Red Sonja modules. Otherwise the bulk of your adventuring time is either going to be spent in hospital... or rolling up new characters.


Might I suggest just leaving in the Alchemist and Pseudo-Casters like the Paladin & Ranger just to allow them to have access to minor healing. At least leave in the Alchemist as it can be explained as Science.


You could probably also allow more uses of patching up wounds with the Heal skill instead of once per day.


Yeah, maybe expanding the heal skill in general.


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Odraude wrote:
You could probably also allow more uses of patching up wounds with the Heal skill instead of once per day.

I always thought about this... How to make the Heal skill be able to... well, heal... Without making it abusable?

Maybe some kind of first-aid kit that can be used by succeeding at a Heal check? HP recovered = skill check would be pretty intuitive, but possibly too much.
Maybe limit the HP recovered to a daily maximum equal to the healed character Constitution score?


When we wrote our medic, their abilities consume charges of a medkit.

Maybe have the ability to heal outside of combat (taking a full min), make it a feat investment to be able to heal during combat? (1st feat gives you the ability to heal as a full round, 2nd as a standard, 3rd boosts efficiency)


Lemmy wrote:
Odraude wrote:
You could probably also allow more uses of patching up wounds with the Heal skill instead of once per day.

I always thought about this... How to make the Heal skill be able to... well, heal... Without making it abusable?

Maybe some kind of first-aid kit that can be used by succeeding at a Heal check? HP recovered = skill check would be pretty intuitive, but possibly too much.
Maybe limit the HP recovered to a daily maximum equal to the healed character Constitution score?

The heal skill can actually heal a decent amount at lower levels. Even at higher levels it's at least okay in a dungeon if you want to save on potions and spells.


Maybe allow people to upgrade their gear to Masterwork using the Craft Skill.

Also Heal does require charges from a Healer's Kit.


Lemmy wrote:
Odraude wrote:
You could probably also allow more uses of patching up wounds with the Heal skill instead of once per day.

I always thought about this... How to make the Heal skill be able to... well, heal... Without making it abusable?

Maybe some kind of first-aid kit that can be used by succeeding at a Heal check? HP recovered = skill check would be pretty intuitive, but possibly too much.
Maybe limit the HP recovered to a daily maximum equal to the healed character Constitution score?

How about requiring the check result to beat the *current* hp and at least 10 minutes? This would limit it and prevent a full refill.

You could let a usage heal 1d6, 1d6+1/2 level with the use of a healing kit.
Example:
Assuming a +2 bonus due to wisdom and having heal as a class skill, this would mean

level bonus
1 6
2 7
3 8
4 9
5 10
10 15
15 20
20 25

Assuming d8 HD and a +2 CON bonus as an average, you have the following HPs
1 10
2 16
3 23
4 29
5 36
10 68
15 101
20 134

So let's say at 5th level you have suffered 75% damage, bringing you to 9hp. Taking 10 you have a 20 to heal, so you heal in two steps to 16hp, then to 19. Getting it higher afterwards is either requiring an investment into the heal skill with skill focus, or other characters aiding you (and thus investing skill points etc. as well).
You could add a scaling factor (e.g. 1/2 character level) to those classes who have heal as a class skill to allow healing to work at higher level, and to allow the healing kit to give an equal bonus for each usage.
In the end, some HPs will be left for natural healing - which is good IMO, this is the way it should be :-)

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