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PFS boon added to Pathfinder Online MMO kickstarter


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

For those interested in Pathfinder Online MMO, we've just announced a boon that can be obtained at the $5 level.

You can check it out HERE.

Liberty's Edge *****

<Joey Voice> Woah!

**

Do we have to pledge that seperately? or do all pledgers above $5 get that as well?

Silver Crusade **

I'm highly intrigued. You shall have my $5.

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Shifty wrote:
Do we have to pledge that seperately? or do all pledgers above $5 get that as well?

From comments section of Kickstarter:

Creator Goblinworks Inc. about 1 hour ago
@Brent Gass - Yes, everyone who backs the project @$5 or more gets the Pathfinder Society reward!

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit

GMs, let's discuss how we can prevent this boon from breaking our dwindling control over PFS players. Ideas:

  • Will save to disbelieve?
  • Media blackout?
  • Taunt Anonymous to target Kickstarter for the next 33 days?
  • Boxed text death for any PC who uses the boon?
  • Spread rumor autism is linked to boon usage?

**

Aha!

Thanks Mike, you're a star! (or rather a five star:p )

Liberty's Edge ****

Eh, not enough info to get my interest.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit

Feral, how is this NOT enough info?:

Kickstarter wrote:
When used at an official Pathfinder Society game table, drinking the elixir grants your hero the advanced simple template for the duration of the scenario. Alternately, the elixir can be spiked with experimental agents to trigger a beneficial permanent mutation randomly determined on a huge chart included on the certificate. If more than one player activates an emerald elixir at the same table, all drinkers can choose their preferred mutation from the list rather than roll randomly.

I just hope that there's a way to prevent these boons from being copied and used multiple times by the same player.

Liberty's Edge ****

What kind of permanent effects are we talking about? Free feats, free stats, a bonus to skills, etc?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Kickstarter wrote:
When used at an official Pathfinder Society game table...

So now Paizo is selling gaming furniture? Did I miss a store blog? Do we get a reroll if we used an official Pathfinder Society table in our games? Do I have to wear the table or can I just keep it in my backpack until I need it?

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit

Feral wrote:
What kind of permanent effects are we talking about? Free feats, free stats, a bonus to skills, etc?

It's $5 man, it's not your nest egg.

Liberty's Edge ****

LOL, I'm aware of that.

I'm already leery of getting involved in this kickstarter. If this was intended as a maneuver to get a bit of a boost from the PFS crowd, I need more information.

It's just $5 but if I gave $5 to every person on the internet that claimed they had some awesome project that needed funding, I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage.

Silver Crusade **

Do we get it even if the thing is not kicked? Can I use it on an entire mod?

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Doug Miles wrote:
Kickstarter wrote:
When used at an official Pathfinder Society game table, drinking the elixir grants your hero the advanced simple template for the duration of the scenario. Alternately, the elixir can be spiked with experimental agents to trigger a beneficial permanent mutation randomly determined on a huge chart included on the certificate. If more than one player activates an emerald elixir at the same table, all drinkers can choose their preferred mutation from the list rather than roll randomly.
I just hope that there's a way to prevent these boons from being copied and used multiple times by the same player.

Easiest way is to hope that the Kickstarter doesn't actually happen.

I'm sorry, Paizo, but in this you do not get my support. With a successful initial Kickstarter, a good business plan, and a realistic goal, you should have more than easily been able to secure traditional financing for this project. Using Kickstarter to try to gain another $1,000,000 (man that's a lot of zeroes) is just doing an end-around on established financial systems by attempting to avoid interest payments that all other business ventures have to deal with. Moreover, it is doing a disservice to your fans by telling them that the first go around wasn't good enough.

I'm unimpressed. And putting a dollar value on a boon is disturbing, considering the stance you've taken on people selling their convention boons.

Boo.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

The boon will be a one-time (fairly significant) power boost that lasts one scenario (or Module or AP volume or whatever) that will not be something PCs can get access to any other way. Alternatively, PCs can use the boon to receive a randomly determined permanent beneficial effect. The more of the boon used at a table at the same time, however, the more control the PCs will have over the random effect, to the maximum benefit of being able to select the bonus of their choice if all 6 players at a table use the boon at the same time.

I can't give more information than that at this time, because it's not something we've put creative energy into. The design will happen after the Kickstarter project funds. Instead of discussing what the boon is, isn't, could be, or should be, we're trying to focus on getting the word out and inspiring as many campaign participants—both players and GMs alike—to pitch in at even the lowest level to help make it a reality. So even if you aren't swayed by the potential boon you'd receive as a backer, please spread the word and encourage your friends and fellow gamers to participate. This only works if we get lots of people involved.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

GET OFF MY LAWN!

More seriously I'm with Drogon on this. Everything he said.

The advanced template? Seriously? Coming from a position of "we don't condone the sellin of race boons on eBay" to "give us $5 for literally nothing more than a boon chronicle" is... disheartening. I'm disappointed in you, purple golem.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mark Moreland wrote:
it's not something we've put creative energy into.

It shows.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Mesa aka TriOmegaZero

I am unmoved by this offer, in either way.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What's next? Selling unique magical items for real money?

***** Venture-Captain, New Jersey , Star Voter 2013 aka Shivok

ok guys take a step back...Relax hombres!

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Kyle Baird wrote:

GET OF MY LAWN!

What does the 'git of Kyle's lawn look like?

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Ismael Soler Jr. wrote:
ok guys take a step back...Relax hombres!

Relax? From what? I'm certainly not worked up. I'm just sad to see them stoop to this level in an effort to get free funding on something they could easily have gotten bank funding for. Kickstarter is its own problem, and has funded a lot of bad business people to put into motion a lot of poorly run businesses. Seeing good business people with a good business go this route is...off. And I will vocalize that disappointment. Sorry.

Ultimately, this will have no impact on what I do with Paizo, or whether I play their game. Doesn't mean I'm not going to say what I have to say when they act poorly.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I also think boons for money is a bad precedent.

Shadow Lodge ** Star Voter 2014

Sigh... A boon for $5. I agree with the nay-sayers. Please don't sell PFS to the highest bidder.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Drogon wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

GET OF MY LAWN!

What does the 'git of Kyle's lawn look like?

Why did you modify my quote? ;-)


Drogon wrote:

I'm sorry, Paizo, but in this you do not get my support. With a successful initial Kickstarter, a good business plan, and a realistic goal, you should have more than easily been able to secure traditional financing for this project. Using Kickstarter to try to gain another $1,000,000 (man that's a lot of zeroes) is just doing an end-around on established financial systems by attempting to avoid interest payments that all other business ventures have to deal with. Moreover, it is doing a disservice to your fans by telling them that the first go around wasn't good enough.

There are two important things here.

1. You don't know how kickstarter really works

2. You don't know how much it costs to make things

I wouldn't be too worried though, most people don't know this these

***

Please don't do this, Paizo. The t-shirt rerolls are about as pay-to-win as I can handle, and at least there was a side-point of advertising the campaign there. That's an incentive I can understand. Or at least there was a side-point, back when the rerolls were for shirts only. Thank goodness the rerolls aren't stackable.

But paying for a boon? Please don't. Rerolls for Folios are bad enough. Boons for Kickstarting is just too far.

-Matt

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Kyle Baird wrote:
Drogon wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

GET OF MY LAWN!

What does the 'git of Kyle's lawn look like?
Why did you modify my quote? ;-)

Apparently I should have used the QBE acronym. That's what all the cool kids do, I've been told.

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

CWheezy wrote:
Drogon wrote:

I'm sorry, Paizo, but in this you do not get my support. With a successful initial Kickstarter, a good business plan, and a realistic goal, you should have more than easily been able to secure traditional financing for this project. Using Kickstarter to try to gain another $1,000,000 (man that's a lot of zeroes) is just doing an end-around on established financial systems by attempting to avoid interest payments that all other business ventures have to deal with. Moreover, it is doing a disservice to your fans by telling them that the first go around wasn't good enough.

There are two important things here.

1. You don't know how kickstarter really works

2. You don't know how much it costs to make things

I wouldn't be too worried though, most people don't know this these

Oh? Enlighten me, please, so that I will not hold this against other companies. Seriously.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

If we pay the $100 along with the $5, do we still get the PDFs as well as the hard copy of the dungeon? Or do we need to pledge at $15, and get the $100 add-on?

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Chris Mortika wrote:
If we pay the $100 along with the $5, do we still get the PDFs as well as the hard copy of the dungeon? Or do we need to pledge at $15, and get the $100 add-on?

That's a question to ask on the comments of the KS or the GW forums below. GW is running it and I would rather not speak for them.

****

7 people marked this as a favorite.

I'd have to say that IMHO this is an excellent idea to drum up interest and a little funding for this rather special kickstarter. As to concerns about the detrimental effect of "selling" boons: This is not really any different to boons only being available if you pay to go to a certain convention. Nor is it very different to there being a boon attached to a book you have bought. I would go so far as to say that it is much the same as getting a limited edition miniature if you pay to go to an event. Using one related part of the Pathfinder family to boost another we'd like to see succeed seems like a good idea to me!

I am protective of the integrity of PFS but I feel that this is not a risk to that at all. In fact hopefully a vibrant online game and an active PFS will lead to a virtuous circle.

W

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:
If we pay the $100 along with the $5, do we still get the PDFs as well as the hard copy of the dungeon? Or do we need to pledge at $15, and get the $100 add-on?

You do, the question has already been answered by the kickstarter, before you asked actually.

Quote:

Will I get PDF versions of the contents of the RPG Print Pack Add On?

Yes! Everyone who purchases the Add On will also get PDF versions of the printed content!
Last updated: Wednesday Dec 12, 1:27pm EST

**** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014 aka Pirate Rob

There's so much meh involved with this Kickstarter I wonder if that's negatively impacting my view of this boon sale, and that it's less objectionable than I imagine.

*me tries to separate the two*

Advanced template for one adventure for $5. Annoying but meh.

Some random boon (random or you can get some other suckers at the same time to choose)

I see 3 possibilities and I imagine the boons will be a mixture of the 3:
1: cool flavor with no in game effect (You're related to some influential Golarion figure). I'm okay with this.
2: super narrow +1 to climb while underwater in Galt. Yuck.
3: An actual bonus that's worth something like an extra trait. I object to this being sold by Paizo for $.

If you have to roll with a chance from multiple categories, super meh :(

Mark Moreland wrote:
it's not something we've put creative energy into.

Is the problem, I can't yet tell if I should be mildly annoyed or more seriously concerned with the direction of PFS.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Pirate Rob wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
it's not something we've put creative energy into.
Is the problem, I can't yet tell if I should be mildly annoyed or more seriously concerned with the direction of PFS.

Please don't take that line out of context. We know how the boon will work but we have not yet designed the list of possible mutations. When the Kickstarter campaign reaches its goal we will devote the same attention and care to it we do everything else, if not more, to ensure that it is neither unbalancing nor lame. We want to make sure that backers who are motivated to do so because of the boon don't feel let down, but also need to do the responsible thing for the campaign and not make every PC who gets the boon to have a mechanical advantage over other PCs whose players didn't choose to back the project or know about it.

Edited for clarity

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pirate Rob wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
it's not something we've put creative energy into.
Is the problem, I can't yet tell if I should be mildly annoyed or more seriously concerned with the direction of PFS.

Hm. I don't think this reflects on the direction of PFS, at all. This is all about the Goblinworks Kickstarter and the money they want to raise. PFS has a ton of reach, and the people in charge know that. By putting out a $5 enticement and asking the 450,000 PFS players if they might want a piece, they are potentially taking this Kickstarter from a "bust" to a "definite." The people who run Paizo aren't stupid; they know that even a fifth of those people saying "sure" to a $5 cost saves this Kickstarter.

That is all this is. PFS as an organized play system will be dictated as it always has been, I think: as a table top RPG experience.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Assuming that this signals the start of a flood of selling PFS boons is very much an overreaction. Offering this boon was very much a considered decision, which, I'll note, works both ways: Sure, it draws more PFS attention to the Kickstarter, but it *also* draws the attention of Kickstarter backers to PFS. It does not herald major changes to PFS; it is what it is.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah so long as this is a one off thing no big deal. Isn't there something about t shirts and rerolls too? Little promo things not a deal breaker IMO

**

Spot on Aaron.

They also aren't a big deal in the grand scheme anyhow, its a boon. Big deal. Great for those that want one, not life/game changing for those who don't want/don't have.

**** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014 aka Pirate Rob

Ignoring any sort of slippery slopes or mixed metaphors, I find this particular transaction objectionable.

With the rules of KS it's too late to do anything about it, I've provided feedback and don't believe there's anything more constructive for me to do here.

Thank you Mark and Vic for taking the time to help clarify any confusion.

Sovereign Court ***** Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Pirate Rob wrote:
I find this particular transaction objectionable.

So do I.

It's just not a direction shift for PFS, I think. You needn't be concerned.

Grand Lodge **** Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

I need to echo my support for everyone who has said 'no boons for money' in this thread.

I think the Paizo staff in general totally agree, but the Pathfinder MMO constitutes as 'special circumstances'. The team behind the MMO seem to have tight, tight links with the Paizo staff, and when they say 'We want a boon attached to our Kickstarter' the Paizo staff aren't in a position to say no.

I don't think it'll be a regular occurrence, unless, you know, there's a THIRD Pathfinder MMO kickstarter, which might happen.

* Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

A agree that this is no different from the con-exclusive boons. In both cases the boons are rewards for supporting Paizo's interests, whether being visible at a con playing PF as a form of advertising or helping make this kickstarter a success to create more buzz for the MMO.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Folks need not fear an onslaught of for-sale boons. This is an unusual event to spread the word about an important new Paizo project. In the same way we're pleased to reward players who come to a convention, we're pleased to reward folks who show their support to this effort. And as Vic has said, this is a good opportunity to bring new folks to Pathfinder Society, as well.

All that said, it's not the beginning of a trend, or a glimpse at an interconnected nefarious plot, or anything like that. It's a cool way to say "thanks" to folks who are helping us out by supporting something important to our company.

Silver Crusade Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

7 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

The funding for the Kickstarter is used to move up the timetable for the release of the game. Not to fund the entire game sans traditional funding. $1,000,000 is not a huge amount in game development. Especially when you factor in Kickstarter costs, and fulfilling pledges.

If the boon, or the Megadungeon, or the flip-mats don't interest you then fine. No problem, don't pay.

If on the other hand those things interest you then your objection to the video game is irrelevant, you get access to awesome tabletop accessories.

I have no interest in attending conventions. People who go to conventions get exclusive boons for going. Conventions cost money. That money bought you a boon.

I've supported a few kickstarters and have no regrets about helping people and businesses achieve their ambitions and avoid either investor interference or interest rates in return for product or influence over the direction the product takes.

Finally the MMO market needs more cross over with the tabletop market. This is an opportunity to expose PFS to a whole new audience. That's pretty nifty.

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:


I have no interest in attending conventions. People who go to conventions get exclusive boons for going. Conventions cost money. That money bought you a boon.

So very true. And the bigger cons pretty much get the cooler boons.

That's just as much cash for boons as this is, I don't get why the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

I find this severely disappointing. I have went from simply ignoring PFO to actively hoping that this kickstarter fails.

This is unfair to your loyal players and is, frankly, disheartening. As I see it, if the boon is terrible, you have enticed people with scant information to pay for an unknown boon that turned out to be worthless. If it's amazing, then you have sold power to players and will either contribute to the power creep that so many players hate or engender animosity to the improved character from the others at the table.

Either way, it's not a good thing.

It has, however, presented the first cogent argument as to why, as a GM, I might want to root for a character's permanent death. Kudos for that, I guess.

Scarab Sages *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You're paying $5 to support the kickstarter and the boon is a "thank you". It's not like they added a section on the Paizo site where players can buy boons. I have Shattered Star minis to buy in January, but I'm tempted to drop $105 so I can get that adventure (and a boon I guess?).

*****

7 people marked this as a favorite.

taps into the bunny pop-up stash and sets up shop

Get your free DOOMSDAY sign here people .. right here that's right... DOOMSDAY signs custom made

seriously it's not that big of a deal.... really

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