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Adding Charisma to AC for Paladins


Advice

Qadira

I could have sworn I saw a variant Paladin somewhere that instead of getting Divine Grace where you added your Cha-mod to your saves, you instead had it added to AC.

Does anyone know of a way of doing this? I'm pretty sure it was an archetype, but whether it 3pp or Paizo, I've no idea. Regardless, I'd like to know its source and what it's called.

I'll even take it as a feat if I have to.

Silver Crusade

The only thing I know of like that is the AC bonus all paladins get when smiting.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Seems both unnecessary and potentially overpowering, since Paladins are already proficient in heavy armor. If it gives every spells, lay on hands, an AC, having high CHA suddenly becomes more important for this martial class than having high CON or STR.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, now that I think about it, I have to agree with Big Lemon. Paladins already have the best saves in the game, are tied for the best AC with fighters, and have Lay on Hands to heal themselves as a swift every turn. They probably have the highest overall survivability of any class, at the expense of not doing as much damage as other classes when they're not smiting.


I think you are talking about an old amazon kit. IT was some kind of female warrior or feat chain that gave cha to like EVERYTHING.... it was a zon in a chain mail bikini that really only needed one stat,, cha....


Dont think it exists but that one dwarf archtype that gets natural armor instead of divine grace. It eliminates some of the need for a cha score so it lets you concentrate on other stuff.

Divine Grace is nothing to scoff at though. AC helps but in the end is that you make your saves against nasty things, and you'll be the one standing when you need to stand. You and the monk.

Qadira

TheKingsportCockroach wrote:
Dont think it exists but that one dwarf archtype that gets natural armor instead of divine grace. It eliminates some of the need for a cha score so it lets you concentrate on other stuff.

No, I'm really sure it exists. I remember the 3.5 one, Divine Shield, and when I saw this my immediate thought was "Oh, they brought this over to Pathfinder." It's just you lose your bonus to saves.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Oathbound Paladin with the Loyalty Oath can grant Cha mod. to an allies AC AND saves, but loses smite evil. That's the closest I can think of.


I believe I have heard that oracles can get that with the right mystery and revelation, and that you can get it with a dip. Not an expert on this subject though.

Osyluth Guile feat also does this against one opponent when you fight defensively. Basically, you use 8 ranks bluff and the dodge feat to mess with a single opponent's mind so that you can dodge better.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

You could take a 1-level dip into Nature Oracle, for the Nature's Whispers revelation. You'd also get some spellcasting with it, at the cost of a point of BAB.


Oracle of Nature 1/Paladin 19
Take the legalistic curse (it's basically the same thing as the Paladin's Lawful Good restriction) and you're good to go!


RainyDayNinja wrote:
You could take a 1-level dip into Nature Oracle, for the Nature's Whispers revelation. You'd also get some spellcasting with it, at the cost of a point of BAB.

Nature Oracle and Lore Oracle both get Cha to AC.

Nature gets Cha to AC and CMD. Lore gets Cha to AC and Reflex. Both instead of Dex.

It's not a bad idea, really, though your curse still advances, so you can get an extra language or two with Tongues and a bonus to social skills one on one with Legalistic.

Qadira

While that's fine for builds, it's still not what I was looking for. *sigh* Maybe I'll never find it. Or, worse yet, when I'm not actually looking for it years down the road, I'll stumble upon it very late and go "There it was!"


The Sacred Shield's Bastion of Good ability, which replaces Smite, gives you a Deflection bonus to AC equal to Charisma.

That's the closest you're going to get from official Paizo stuff. Maybe it was a 3rd party thing?

Qadira

mplindustries wrote:

The Sacred Shield's Bastion of Good ability, which replaces Smite, gives you a Deflection bonus to AC equal to Charisma.

That's the closest you're going to get from official Paizo stuff. Maybe it was a 3rd party thing?

Yeah, looks like it's 3pp. That's going to make it all the harder now.


I don't know, I think you might just be mistaken. None of the 3rd party archetypes listed on d20pfsrd replace Divine Grace, nor do they grant any kind of AC bonuses.

Qadira

mplindustries wrote:
I don't know, I think you might just be mistaken. None of the 3rd party archetypes listed on d20pfsrd replace Divine Grace, nor do they grant any kind of AC bonuses.

Unfortunately not all 3pp archetypes are on there. I'd say at least two dozen books aren't on that site yet. I know because I've bought at least half of them, and the other half are queued for me to pick up at a later time (when I get money).


Still, with a one level dip and a feat you qualify for at level 8, you can get you CHA to AC twice (since one of those simply replaces DEX, so I hardly think a GM could complain). That could easily end up being 6-10 ac when you fight defensively, on top of the ac bonuses from that action. Hard to argue with that.

Qadira

lemeres wrote:
Still, with a one level dip and a feat you qualify for at level 8, you can get you CHA to AC twice (since one of those simply replaces DEX, so I hardly think a GM could complain). That could easily end up being 6-10 ac when you fight defensively, on top of the ac bonuses from that action. Hard to argue with that.

I am the GM. It's for a player, and they don't want to do any dips. Hence why I'm looking for the Cha to AC for her.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
kevin_video wrote:
lemeres wrote:
Still, with a one level dip and a feat you qualify for at level 8, you can get you CHA to AC twice (since one of those simply replaces DEX, so I hardly think a GM could complain). That could easily end up being 6-10 ac when you fight defensively, on top of the ac bonuses from that action. Hard to argue with that.
I am the GM. It's for a player, and they don't want to do any dips. Hence why I'm looking for the Cha to AC for her.

Well...since you are already looking at 3pp sources why not just houserule an archetype that does what you want?

Btw, I've played a sacred shield pally before (actually dual classed with a tower shield specialist fighter) and I was everyone's best friend in the group. Combined with antagonize I was one heck of a tank.


Because paladins aren't broke enough... I
haven't seen anything that can do this. But will be watching this post for ideas because it would be pretty slick/broken.


If you think swapping Divine Grace for Divine Armour is fair, let them do it then :)

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