But how many lefties are there in comics? I can think of two. One's dead.

You're right to call out my misuse of words. Well played.

I confess I don't know what the acronym/abbreviation "cis" means, but I did specifically point out one transgendered character in the New 52. I included the gay characters as context that DC has at least tried to more inclusive of the LGBT community in their range.

I understand that isn't what you were referring to, specifically, but I do think it is relevant.

"Cis" is the opposite of "Trans" when "trans" means the other side. Transjordan, transgender; Cisjordan, cisgender. Except that you don't see "cis" very often.

But how many lefties are there in comics? I can think of two. One's dead.

Oh my god, I'm a lefty. I KNEW DC Comics hated me!

((Seriously, I was just in a s~!$ty mood the other day and said a ridiculous thing. Didn't intend to derail the whole thread.))

This oddly coincided with her exclusive contract with DC expiring.

Batgirl is one of the few books I've been reading, largely because Simone is one o my favorite creators since she made Birds of Prey great with Barbara Gordon, now Batgirl.

Her Batgirl run has meant a lot to people dealing with trauma and survivors guilt, as various reviews have indicated. Maybe DC wanted a simple hero book and not something deep.

Would have loved to see her bring in some of her characters from other series. Secret Six was awesome.

This oddly coincided with her exclusive contract with DC expiring.

That was a part that confounds me. And I think at least from what I've read on Gail Simone's Twitter and Tumblr, possibly confounds her too.

Yes, her contract was expiring. Someone in the comics rumor mill saw that and started spreading rumors that Gail Simone was leaving Batgirl because of knowing her contract was up. Gail responded, more or less, "I am absolutely not leaving Batgirl, these rumors are unfounded."

A few days after that, she was fired.

So even though her contract was expiring, she appeared to have every expectation that it was going to be renewed (and presumably was going through the process of renewing it).

Certainly, you want to fire someone after their contract's up and not before, but there's an indication here there was absolutely zero communication going on before Gail Simone received the ignominious email. At least based on what is publicly known about the situation, which in fairness, may well not be everything.

Her Batgirl run has meant a lot to people dealing with trauma and survivors guilt, as various reviews have indicated. Maybe DC wanted a simple hero book and not something deep.

You may well be right. I have a feeling some folks at least really want Yvonne Craig in purple tights and little else. Not that that's a BAD thing in and of itself, but different readers have different expectations, as do different editors... (Whose baby are you, indeed)

Would have loved to see her bring in some of her characters from other series. Secret Six was awesome.

I miss Secret Six so much it hurts. One of my hopes is she can get on an indie title and construct another grey area ensemble book. Not a Secret Six without the IP, I think there should be its own twist. But I think she wrote that kind of thing very well and I'd actually like to see her be able to work with characters she herself created.

Her Batgirl run has meant a lot to people dealing with trauma and survivors guilt, as various reviews have indicated. Maybe DC wanted a simple hero book and not something deep

indeed. I see this happening with a fair amount of dc titles, actually. I think it's something tha both the community and the company need to have a heart to heart about what they want to see in the comic.

There's nothing wrong with Yvonne Craig in tights.

Ahem, that said, I don't know what DC wanted for Batgirl. Not sure if we will ever know the details.

There's nothing wrong with Yvonne Craig in tights.

Ahem, that said, I don't know what DC wanted for Batgirl. Not sure if we will ever know the details.

to me that last is the problem. dc(and others) should be more upfront with what a comic is going to be about.

Matthew Morris wrote:

But how many lefties are there in comics? I can think of two. One's dead.

Oh my god, I'm a lefty. I KNEW DC Comics hated me!

((Seriously, I was just in a s%$+ty mood the other day and said a ridiculous thing. Didn't intend to derail the whole thread.))

~grins~ Hey, at least you are not a snarky smart ass who puts his foot in his mouth. Now who could that be that does that? ~whistles innocently and slowly backs away fromt he thread~

You'd probably also like All-Star Western and Sword of Sorcery, as their time-displacement fits them nicely into your criteria. Demon Knights also counts, though it's a touch closer. A touch closer still (but likely to appeal to you since you like Swamp Thing and Animal Man) is the revamped Justice League Dark.

As a long-time fan of Amethyst: Princess of The Gemworld (so much so that I submitted a returned-unopened treatment of the property that would have put it firmly into the creepy-cool arena that Vertigo is supposed to cover), I have to say I'm not overly happy with SoS. I love the Beowulf follow-up story going on in it, but the main Amethyst storyline (thus far) has done very little to grab me. It feels rushed, and more than a bit forced.

All-Star Western hasn't grabbed me, but I'll give it another look. Demon Knights... I tried that one for the first six issues, and was not very impressed at all. I like that Shining Knight has recently been revealed as non-normatively gendered (I've always thought that was more appropriate for the way the Fey are portrayed in the DCU, anyway, myself), but just like I wasn't happy with the direction Stormwatch was taking... and the pace it was taking it at... I got the same vibe from Demon Knights. Now that it's become clear that they're the same organization separated by time and technology, I'm a bit more put off.

JL:Dark, surprisingly, has got me by the wallet. I wasn't expecting to like it, and I really am. Not so sure about the retcons on my favorite Scouse magician and his history with Zatanna, but overall I like the book.

Back on the topic of Gail Simone and Batgirl, though.

After reading this week's issue of the book, I am more convinced than ever that the DC Editorial staff has no idea what they've just let go from their stable. I was literally holding my breath reading this week's issue - it was tense, it was emotionally powerful, and it was moving. It was also CRAZY GOOD.

What the heck, DC.

~grins~ Hey, at least you are not a snarky smart ass who puts his foot in his mouth. Now who could that be that does that? ~whistles innocently and slowly backs away fromt he thread~

Hey come on now I only posted in this thread twice and I don't think I shoved my foot in my mouth.

But how many lefties are there in comics? I can think of two. One's dead.

Oh look... A LGBT discussion breaks out, and there's Matt, right on cue with the left-handed strawpeople.

Actually, that was the sekrit agenda behind Scourge. He was really just wacking all the southpaws in the Marvel-616 to enforce the strict rightocentric normative. Sic Semper Sinestra! [/sarcasm]

Deathquaker,
She and her Secret Six co-collaborators are producing a Kickstarter fudned book called Leaving Megalopolis. I'm not sure it's exactly what you're looking for. It's a one shot hardbound that should be released early next year from what I can remember about the Kickstarter (now closed and funded).

Link to the Kickstarter page for summary details: Leaving Megalopolis

I am well aware of it; didn't have the funds to support the Kickstarter as it came on the heels of the Reaper Kickstarter that I put a good amount of my petty cash into. (Kickstarter fatigue hit me a long time ago.)

I am still keeping an eye on when it comes out, and am curious to see what it will be like. If it looks good, I'll buy it retail if/when I have the money.

Oh look, there Ambrosia Slaad being hateful to lefties.

Of course, when you can't refute something call it a strawman.

Erik Mona wrote:

You'd probably also like All-Star Western and Sword of Sorcery, as their time-displacement fits them nicely into your criteria. Demon Knights also counts, though it's a touch closer. A touch closer still (but likely to appeal to you since you like Swamp Thing and Animal Man) is the revamped Justice League Dark.

As a long-time fan of Amethyst: Princess of The Gemworld (so much so that I submitted a returned-unopened treatment of the property that would have put it firmly into the creepy-cool arena that Vertigo is supposed to cover), I have to say I'm not overly happy with SoS. I love the Beowulf follow-up story going on in it, but the main Amethyst storyline (thus far) has done very little to grab me. It feels rushed, and more than a bit forced.

All-Star Western hasn't grabbed me, but I'll give it another look. Demon Knights... I tried that one for the first six issues, and was not very impressed at all. I like that Shining Knight has recently been revealed as non-normatively gendered (I've always thought that was more appropriate for the way the Fey are portrayed in the DCU, anyway, myself), but just like I wasn't happy with the direction Stormwatch was taking... and the pace it was taking it at... I got the same vibe from Demon Knights. Now that it's become clear that they're the same organization separated by time and technology, I'm a bit more put off.

JL:Dark, surprisingly, has got me by the wallet. I wasn't expecting to like it, and I really am. Not so sure about the retcons on my favorite Scouse magician and his history with Zatanna, but overall I like the book.

Back on the topic of Gail Simone and Batgirl, though.

After reading this week's issue of the book, I am more convinced than ever that the DC Editorial staff has no idea what they've just let go from their stable. I was literally holding my breath reading this week's issue - it was tense, it was emotionally powerful, and it was moving. It was also CRAZY GOOD.

What the heck, DC.

Not to turn this into Amethyst princess of Gemworld: the Thread, but yeah I'm pretty unimpressed by the new series. It read likes it's written by someone who hasn't read very much fantasy, and is doing a lot of typical things with the character. And yes, I plan to keep reading the series. (Full disclosure, I bought the individual issues off the comics rack at the local five and dime, and just loved. A year or so later I stumbled across the Elfquest color albums at Waldenbooks. Yes, gentle reader, I was the comicbook nerd who got beaten up by other, cooler comicbook nerds.)

Back on topic, that's a really crappy way to let someone go, but it's no surprise, given DC's treatment of creators in the past. (Remember Rick Veitch's run on Swamp Thing?) Gail Simone's is a good writer, she'll find employment somewhere.

Before she even had anything to do with the Vertigo line, Karen Berger was the editor on Amethyst: Princess of Gemworld. Life's a circle, Grasshopper.

As a long-time fan of Amethyst: Princess of The Gemworld (so much so that I submitted a returned-unopened treatment of the property that would have put it firmly into the creepy-cool arena that Vertigo is supposed to cover), I have to say I'm not overly happy with SoS. I love the Beowulf follow-up story going on in it, but the main Amethyst storyline (thus far) has done very little to grab me. It feels rushed, and more than a bit forced.

Christy Marx has written on Elfquest, Conan, and Red Sonja, and is well known for her original Sisterhood of Steel comic. She is a respected, veteran writer who is no stranger to fantasy.

I've only read the first two issues of Amethyst, but I've enjoyed them (I need to pick up the next couple ASAP). It feels very typical pulp fantasy, but that's exactly where my expectations were. I do think the first issue felt rushed--it tried to set up all the characters AND get them from the real world to the fantasy world way too fast. And the mother-daughter dynamic (not a fantasy trope) is very typical/cliched. So yeah, I agree there are elements that need some work.

However, having read a lot of fantasy in my day, I do not see anything out of place or indicative of lack of experience, so I'm curious as to why that particular thought struck you. The world structure seems interesting and apart from the absolutely stock mother-daughter thing, the characters interest me, and I like Amaya. She's a believable 17 year old girl without being obnoxious and she has a good noble streak that isn't yet too overly self righteous.

I'd also note that a) she only has half a comic book to tell a story in and make something happen each time (so it probably IS often going to feel rushed--there isn't much time to tell the story), and b) stuff like this the editors often provides a number of "presets" the writer has to work with (including fantasy tropes like the evil relative wanting the main royal bloodline character dead). Absolutely full creative control in a book like this is not likely.

In short, I'm sorry you don't like it, and it may just be a matter of taste---and/or the all too common issue of the new version not evoking our nostalgic enjoyment of the old series; I think we all get bitten by that (and very often in comic books in particular). But I'd humbly suggest cutting the writer a little slack and see where it goes a little more.

ELFQUEST 4 LIFE!!!

Twas where a young Freehold first saw...ah..began to appreciate the female elven form. yeah, that's the ticket.

I also loved the postapocalyptic feel, even as a tyke.

Hitdice wrote:

As a long-time fan of Amethyst: Princess of The Gemworld (so much so that I submitted a returned-unopened treatment of the property that would have put it firmly into the creepy-cool arena that Vertigo is supposed to cover), I have to say I'm not overly happy with SoS. I love the Beowulf follow-up story going on in it, but the main Amethyst storyline (thus far) has done very little to grab me. It feels rushed, and more than a bit forced.

Christy Marx has written on Elfquest, Conan, and Red Sonja, and is well known for her original Sisterhood of Steel comic. She is a respected, veteran writer who is no stranger to fantasy.

I've only read the first two issues of Amethyst, but I've enjoyed them (I need to pick up the next couple ASAP). It feels very typical pulp fantasy, but that's exactly where my expectations were. I do think the first issue felt rushed--it tried to set up all the characters AND get them from the real world to the fantasy world way too fast. And the mother-daughter dynamic (not a fantasy trope) is very typical/cliched. So yeah, I agree there are elements that need some work.

However, having read a lot of fantasy in my day, I do not see anything out of place or indicative of lack of experience, so I'm curious as to why that particular thought struck you. The world structure seems interesting and apart from the absolutely stock mother-daughter thing, the characters interest me, and I like Amaya. She's a believable 17 year old girl without being obnoxious and she has a good noble streak that isn't yet too overly self righteous.

I removed some stuff for the sake of space.

Full disclosure, Gemstone was the one quoted under my name above, but he shouldn't feel bad, I doubt they would have opened my pitch either. I'm the one who spent all day in his crammed in his locker after the other nerds caught me reading girl comics.

Fear not, pretty unimpressed doesn't mean I won't keep reading it. It's just that I prefer stories where the characters are savvy enough to teach future princesses of gemworld the language their subjects speak and sword fighting. I guess I'm saying I don't want very typical pulp fantasy, I want exemplary pulp fantasy.

But, as you say, it's early in the series, and I'll be sticking with it.

You're right to call out my misuse of words. Well played.

I confess I don't know what the acronym/abbreviation "cis" means, but I did specifically point out one transgendered character in the New 52. I included the gay characters as context that DC has at least tried to more inclusive of the LGBT community in their range.

I understand that isn't what you were referring to, specifically, but I do think it is relevant.

Stephen Moffat went even further in "A Town Called Mercy" The Doctor borrows a horse to chase down a cyborg gunman and is told that his name is "Bounder". After informing it's owner that he speaks Horse, he finishes. "His name is Sue, and he wants you to start respecting his life choices."

Erik Mona wrote:

You're right to call out my misuse of words. Well played.

I confess I don't know what the acronym/abbreviation "cis" means, but I did specifically point out one transgendered character in the New 52. I included the gay characters as context that DC has at least tried to more inclusive of the LGBT community in their range.

I understand that isn't what you were referring to, specifically, but I do think it is relevant.

Stephen Moffat went even further in "A Town Called Mercy" The Doctor borrows a horse to chase down a cyborg gunman and is told that his name is "Bounder". After informing it's owner that he speaks Horse, he finishes. "His name is Sue, and he wants you to start respecting his life choices."

I just kind of shrugged that off. It's kind of a 'Dumbledore moment' to me. A little thing tossed in, that will never be addressed again.

It rates right up there with "You sold me gay camels!" from Gladiator.

Edit: I see it different from Catman being revealed as bi, or Obsidian's homosexuality and its impact on Alan Scott. Heck, what would have been the reaction if Barbara's roommate was trans, and Barbara freaked? That would make for interesting stories.

One of the more interesting 'b stories' in Dark Angel is when Max, Herbal, Sketch and Original Cindy figure out that Normal's seeing a woman. They find out she's trans, and straight laced, uptight Normal doesn't have a problem with it. She ends up breaking it off with Normal, and says she finds Cindy interesting. Cindy freaks, not because she's a woman (Cindy's gay) but because she was a man. It was a nice reversal.

Dr. Who and Torchwood bring out LGBT perspectives rather frequently, especially in the case of those randy Humans from the 51st century.

Full disclosure, Gemstone was the one quoted under my name above, but he shouldn't feel bad, I doubt they would have opened my pitch either. I'm the one who spent all day in his crammed in his locker after the other nerds caught me reading girl comics.

Sorry! I got lost in the nest of quote boxes. :)

I do agree that it's odd that the mother chose to teach her daughter fighting and not her native language, although perhaps that was to help them allow to lay low.

Dr. Who and Torchwood bring out LGBT perspectives rather frequently, especially in the case of those randy Humans from the 51st century.

Considering the writers...

I have this horrible image of Jack (Torchwood) meeting Jeff (Coupling) and his head exploding.

Hitdice wrote:

Full disclosure, Gemstone was the one quoted under my name above, but he shouldn't feel bad, I doubt they would have opened my pitch either. I'm the one who spent all day in his crammed in his locker after the other nerds caught me reading girl comics.

Sorry! I got lost in the nest of quote boxes. :)

I do agree that it's odd that the mother chose to teach her daughter fighting and not her native language, although perhaps that was to help them allow to lay low.

For the record I wasn't offended that you quoted me under Hitdice's name at all, so no apology is necessary. Not to me at least. Confusion happens. :)

For the record (part two!) I don't so much dislike the new Amethyst as it simply hasn't grabbed me. The two are not mutually exclusive - I'm not jumping up and down over it, but I do like it, let's be clear. If I don't like something, I say so outright. Usually loudly, but always clearly. ;)

It simply hasn't grabbed me, is all. I, too, will be sticking with it. I usually give any comic series 3 issues, minimum. Most, I give 6. If they haven't hit their stride in that long, I wait until they change writers, and come back for another 3-6. I'm pretty forgiving like that.

And Hitdice, I fistbump you in solidarity, locker-brother. And you know, I've gotta say, the old Amethyst comic may have started out as a "Mystical Orphaned Princess Wish Fulfillment" type comic aimed at girls, but it ended up as anything but. That was a solid, solid book for the 80's, and I loved it.

Raises hand shyly.

I have the 12 issue limited series of Amethyst around somewhere in my comic collection. Yes I'm a horrible boy geek who sometimes read the girl comics for fun. And yes it was a solid book at the end, but the first few issues, not so much...:)

Don't be ashamed. If I was allowed to read JLA and Fantastic Four as a kid, you were allowed to read Amethyst.

Rather than worry too much about gender assignments, maybe a good story is just a good story. Sure you can try to make something appeal to a particular demographic, but if it's good and breaks its demographic, that should only be a good thing. :)

I make no differentiation between boy comics and girl comics.

That said, voltron and Barbie should totally fight.

That said, voltron and Barbie should totally fight.

I call dibs on the soon-to-be-released Barbie-piloted Voltron mech toys.

*pushes the "Talk" button on Barbie*
"I love shopping!"

*push*
"Wanna have a pizza party?"

*push*
"And I'll form the head!"

*giggles and pushes again*
"Math class is tough!"

*sighs with disappointment and buys his daughter a Twilight Sparkle Gundam instead*

*sighs with disappointment and buys his daughter a Twilight Sparkle Gundam instead*

Rarity Gundam is Best Gundam.

Freehold DM wrote:

That said, voltron and Barbie should totally fight.

I call dibs on the soon-to-be-released Barbie-piloted Voltron mech toys.

*pushes the "Talk" button on Barbie*
"I love shopping!"

*push*
"Wanna have a pizza party?"

*push*
"And I'll form the head!"

*giggles and pushes again*
"Math class is tough!"

*sighs with disappointment and buys his daughter a Twilight Sparkle Gundam instead*

just don't let any enterprising geek near that voice chip or you'll get some... interesting combinations.

I make no differentiation between boy comics and girl comics.

That said, voltron and Barbie should totally fight.

Voltron was my Barbie's kitchen maid. He totally rocked that apron too.

She-Ra also frequently rode the individual Voltron lions as steeds.

My sister had these "Glamour Gals" 4" tall dolls. She had the Cruise ship for them. More than once she'd find the ship had been taken over by COBRA and the Joes were having a running gun battle through the ship.

Shinmizu wrote:

*sighs with disappointment and buys his daughter a Twilight Sparkle Gundam instead*

Rarity Gundam is Best Gundam.

pinkie pie 4 LIFE!!!

Also, I would kill for pony paint scheme true Gundam mobile suits.

jemstone wrote:

Shinmizu wrote:

*sighs with disappointment and buys his daughter a Twilight Sparkle Gundam instead*

Rarity Gundam is Best Gundam.

pinkie pie 4 LIFE!!!

Also, I would kill for pony paint scheme true Gundam mobile suits.

Get thou to Hobby Link Japan, GO!

Seriously. Gundam Markers. Look into it.

I know, I love Hobbylink Japan. I simply have come to the conclusion that I suck at painting kits.

I know, I love Hobbylink Japan. I simply have come to the conclusion that I suck at painting kits.

We'll get you some video lessons. You'll do fine. It'll all work out.

TRUST ME.

...

...

Okay, maybe don't do that.

Oh, and for those who missed it:

Gail Simone is back on Batgirl

I am really happy Gail Simone is employed again working on a character she loves, and that DC did the right thing, and I am disappointed that a much better company didn't snap her up and give her a better opportunity that she deserves.

ETA: Mind, the last is because mostly because I am selfish and want to buy Gail titles, and I still refuse to buy most new 52 stuff. Perhaps the end result of all this will change my mind. We will see.

I'm in the same boat DQ. Though at least I can (hopefully) start on BOP trades if my premiums leave me any money.

Nice about Gail getting back on Batgirl!

I know a guy who drove about 10 hours to visit his girlfriend, who dumped him when he got there, so he turned around and drive back.

Sometimes it's better not to do it in person.

(This was before text or even common email, but she could have done it by phone.)

Yeah, Johnny-come-lately here, but I've been there. Though in my case it was a 10 hour Greyhound ride. I would have been happier with a phone call.

Wait, She is back ?

It means no one consumed their brains ? I am really disappointed

So I have to say that this thread got me to read the new Batgirl 52 (I have nearly a complete run of the old Batgirl with the mute girl), and man it is TOTALLY worth it! Great story, and I want MORE of it to be available right now!

Draw faster!

I hate assuming the worst, but it's kind of hard not to with the Big Two these days:

I can't help but suspect that Simone got the axe because she was refusing an editorial mandate. You know, like the kind that Marvel and DC have both been throwing around far too freely the past decade. It's a bit too easy to see horrible directions Simone would not want to take that book that someone higher up on the totem poll was determined would be a good idea.

And if there's one thing that DC can be counted on these days it's crapping all over their strong female characters once they have a good thing going.

No, I'm not bitter about the mindwipe derail of Brubaker's Catwoman or the lolwut direction they took Cassandra Cain at all.

Augh, that's a big part of what's frustrating about this. It's hard to be cold and objective about it after DC(and Marvel) have built up so much bad karma. It's really hard to not be embittered towards both of them these days.

Fair point Mikaze and I will agree that Cass and Catwoman got the shadt but I must point out that this is not restricted to female characters. Case in point poor old Roy Harper. Cry for Justice is quite frankly the worst comic series I have ever read. It makes One More Day look like Watchmen...

If I ever met Gail Simone, I'd ask if she could sign my arm, and then have it tattoed on if she did. So yeah, that feel when I read the title of this thread... >:(

Her Wonder Woman run got me into comics in the first place, and Secret Six is the best thing ever. This is another major smack in the face from DC, when I was finally coming back around to them since I loved the new Suicide Squad, and I thought the new Justice League was pretty good too. Although a good bit of that first trade was kind of forgetable, and my favorite character (Wonder Woman) seems a lot more one dimensional.

I don't know what I'm gonna do now...

If I ever met Gail Simone, I'd ask if she could sign my arm, and then have it tattoed on if she did. So yeah, that feel when I read the title of this thread... >:(

Did you read the rest of the thread? She is now back on Batgirl. DC rehired her.

CylonDorado wrote:

If I ever met Gail Simone, I'd ask if she could sign my arm, and then have it tattoed on if she did. So yeah, that feel when I read the title of this thread... >:(

Did you read the rest of the thread? She is now back on Batgirl. DC rehired her.

Ah, that's cool. It was like 4am when I wrote that, so I wasn't all there.