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The new 64 page format - discuss!


Pathfinder Modules

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Qadira

So, for those not in the know, there's a shiny new format for PF modules.

There has been some talk of this in the product thread, but I thought this big a change warranted it's own discussion. Here are some basic starting thoughts:

1) The new format will certainly allow ideas to be fleshed out much better and create a more in depth scenario

2) there will only be 4 modules a year, but with all of the delays wev'e got used to with the previous 32 pages format that's not even all that great of a change, and we do get to see more pages of content per year

3) RPG superstar - how will that work now?

4) level range - I don't like it very much that the 1st module we see will spen over 6 levels. I think that's a bit much for 64 pages (some of which are not even adventure content but a survey of the town where the adventure is focused), meaning probably a LOT of encounters...

5) Mike Shel (the author of the The Dragon's Demand) promised an episodic feel for the adventure, with every "episode" roughly corresponding with a level - wouldn't that make the module feel like 6 "mini adventures" linked togather?

6) These modules are now not as easy to link into an existing campagn like the 32 pages modules were, since they are now really big.

Let the discussion ensue!

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Wow, Thank you for starting this thread. I had completely missed that piece of news.

My first thought was "mmm....Bastardhall...."

Cheliax

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Love the concept, eager to see the execution.

At low levels the 64 page format will allow for a greater scope (as in spanning multiple levels) and background/setting stuff, while at higher levels the extra pages are so much useful for the sorely needed extra informations about NPCs, creatures, tactics, custom magic items/spells and whatnots.

Also, supermodules hells yeah.


I'm definitely a little concerned over the level range of the first module. Even the AP volumes that have spanned 1-5 (like Howl of the Carrion King) had a few "you may need some random encounters to make sure the PCs are the right level" moments.

However, the module likely means you will hit level 6 at the end, so it's more like 5 mini sections. I just hope it doesn't include a vague "random encounter" laden journey that it expects the GM to actually roll. I don't mind fixed encounters to spice up a journey, but the "just roll a few times" style always bugs me

I hope they all have some kind of separation like that. It would make them more useful than the 32 page modules for my purposes. I often find I have to cut things from the 32 pagers so it fits into my campaign at the appropriate level while occupying the number of sessions I intended to fill. If the adventure is already sectioned out (like many AP volumes are now, or even some modules), it makes it way easier for me to cherry-pick what I want.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I'm a big fan of the change. Having all of Paizo's 32-page modules means I have around thirty or forty scenarios across a variety of level ranges (focussed near the lower end, but still reasonably diverse). It will be good to get a few different options allowing some stories difficult to tell in 32 pages.

Personally, I'd prefer them to be more completely fleshed out, sandboxy style and covering only 2-3 levels rather than rocketting too far through level advancement (if they are to take PCs from 1-6, then presumably most of the encounters are going to be "necessary"). I'm happy to wait and see though - presumably these will also have a variety of designs and scope and wont all be the same format.

Qadira

Eric "Boxhead" Hindley wrote:

I'm definitely a little concerned over the level range of the first module. Even the AP volumes that have spanned 1-5 (like Howl of the Carrion King) had a few "you may need some random encounters to make sure the PCs are the right level" moments.

However, the module likely means you will hit level 6 at the end, so it's more like 5 mini sections. I just hope it doesn't include a vague "random encounter" laden journey that it expects the GM to actually roll. I don't mind fixed encounters to spice up a journey, but the "just roll a few times" style always bugs me

I hope they all have some kind of separation like that. It would make them more useful than the 32 page modules for my purposes. I often find I have to cut things from the 32 pagers so it fits into my campaign at the appropriate level while occupying the number of sessions I intended to fill. If the adventure is already sectioned out (like many AP volumes are now, or even some modules), it makes it way easier for me to cherry-pick what I want.

Yeah when I was saying I'm worried about the level span I was thinking about "Howl of the Carrion King" which I really like but I felt large parts of it were stretched to accomodate for the large level span. Mike Shel said that he hopes PCs could get to be 7th level when finishing "The Dragon's Demand", meaning they would at least be well into 6th level by the end of it. So, that's 6 complete levels.


Love it!

I had cancelled my modules subscription a few months ago, but will be restarting my sub with The Dragon's Demand.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm all for it. 
However, there is certainly such a thing as too much information. I hope there is more adventure and couple pages of barely sketched out background and history.

I certainly get more out of the old school modules and their three paragraphs of background information than out of a 128pg sourcebook. A DM can take three paragraphs and run with it, filling in some blanks and keep that sense of mystery alive. A detailed sourcebook doesn't have the room so to speak and ends up functioning more as a straight jacket or a ball in chain. 


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think this new format will work very nicely for my group. We have 3 rotating GMs, and longer modules will hopefully serve as longer-running story arcs that do not require as strong a commitment as a full AP, for example. But I'll definitely reserve a final opinion until I get a chance to see one.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Kirwyn wrote:
I certainly get more out of the old school modules and their three paragraphs of background information than out of a 128pg sourcebook. A DM can take three paragraphs and run with it, filling in some blanks and keep that sense of mystery alive. A detailed sourcebook doesn't have the room so to speak and ends up functioning more as a straight jacket or a ball in chain. 

I'm in the opposite in that regard. I like lots of detail and advice in my adventures. While I can certainly run with more sparse information, the more detailed adventures give me more options to play with in addition to the stuff I come up with on my own. As for the ball of chain, it's really up to the GM how much he allows the fluff of the adventure to act as a ball in chain, I think.

As for the decision to go with 64-page adventures, I love it. It opens up a lot of opportunities that a 32-page adventure might not have handled as well. Bastardhall's been mentioned and, while I hope we'll see Bastardhall as a megaadventure/boxed set thing some day, it's a good example of how the transition to 64 pages presents more options. Bigger dungeons and wider scope (war, kingdom building, etc.).

I do have to echo what's been mentioned previously with regard to the level span. It seems a bit much, I think, to squeeze 6 level increases into a 64-page adventure. Either it's shock full of combat encounters at the expense of roleplaying opportunities (which is something I'd prefer not to see), or story awards will play a much bigger role in adventures going forward. I'll give Paizo the benefit of the doubt until I've actually read Dragon's Demand but it is something I'm concerned about.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

Oh I missed that information as well.

So they went in the oposite direction that they were talking about of making it a monthly subscription.

This I think works pretty nice. I might re-up my subscription for it when move is complete.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

While I like the concept of larger modules, I think it will leave a big hole in the product line: shorter adventures. When I caught wind of this I was hoping for some sort of alternation, not a complete replacement of normal modules with Super Modules.

Perhaps they have something else in mind, too.

Andoran

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
gbonehead wrote:

While I like the concept of larger modules, I think it will leave a big hole in the product line: shorter adventures. When I caught wind of this I was hoping for some sort of alternation, not a complete replacement of normal modules with Super Modules.

Perhaps they have something else in mind, too.

o

I'd love for the modules to not be constrained to the one length. Maybe issues at 32pg 64pg and 96pg.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Well Perhaps they can produce two 32 page adventures, one 64 page adventure, and one 96 page adventure in a year.

I am sure that will cause more editing and printing havoc then its worth, but that might be one way, to give a couple of one level "filler" modules, and a couple of "mini " campaigns, with the 64 page modules for the lower levels, and the 96 pages for the higher levels.


This is the first I've heard of this change to a 64 page quarterly format, but I like it.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

2 people marked this as a favorite.
gbonehead wrote:

While I like the concept of larger modules, I think it will leave a big hole in the product line: shorter adventures. When I caught wind of this I was hoping for some sort of alternation, not a complete replacement of normal modules with Super Modules.

Perhaps they have something else in mind, too.

We already produce two shorter adventures each month, in the form of Pathfinder Society Scenarios.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

While I like the concept of larger modules, I think it will leave a big hole in the product line: shorter adventures. When I caught wind of this I was hoping for some sort of alternation, not a complete replacement of normal modules with Super Modules.

Perhaps they have something else in mind, too.

We already produce two shorter adventures each month, in the form of Pathfinder Society Scenarios.

So 64 is the target length for the upcoming RPG Superstar contest?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

We'll shed some light on that when the rules for the final round are revealed.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
gbonehead wrote:

While I like the concept of larger modules, I think it will leave a big hole in the product line: shorter adventures. When I caught wind of this I was hoping for some sort of alternation, not a complete replacement of normal modules with Super Modules.

Perhaps they have something else in mind, too.

We already produce two shorter adventures each month, in the form of Pathfinder Society Scenarios.

Which have a vast set of restrictions different than modules. So the 32-page module concept is completely gone? Time for a mental readjustment of expectations :)

Taldor

I enjoy the idea. More depths to explore. Like mini-campagin seeds. Much better than one off dungeon crawls.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like it. But I will also say that I like diversity in the line up. Some are great at 32 paages, and some would be better if they were a bit bigger. I am also a fan of having 2 modules form a 3 part super module. I am glad to see Paizo try to mix it up.

I think 4 modules a year is fine.

Paizo Employee Developer

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

Taldor

Adam Daigle wrote:
Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures?

Could you explain what you mean by "more help?" (Do you mean extra maps, DMing sidebars, NPC appendix like in the APs, etc.)

Paizo Employee Developer

Things like the appendix in the APs as well as the other back matter articles that tie into the adventure.


Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

A gazetteer of a locale, with some NPCs fleshed out a bit, a new monster or two, a couple of new spells and magic items would be great.

I'd also love to see each module come with a different sample party of 4 pre-generated player characters.

But then I'm also keen for Paizo to release a PC Codex book...


Scott McFarland wrote:

I'd also love to see each module come with a different sample party of 4 pre-generated player characters.

But then I'm also keen for Paizo to release a PC Codex book...

Do you mean beyond the NPC Codex - which is already out? That has the 11 basic iconics (Amiri/barbarian to Ezren/wizard) at many different levels, plus a whole lot more.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

I'm a fan of gazetteers and other golarion lore. Maybe the odd faction where that made sense. Write ups of secret societies, cults, etcetera.

I don't want to see monsters personally (though I seem to be in a minority in that regard). I'd prefer to have my monsters collected in as few places as possible, rather than sprinkled through lots of books.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

YES COLUMN:

1. Location gazetteers
2. Monsters from adventure - but I wouldn't want it to just be monsters (1 max)
3. Expanding the Adventure ideas (like the AP continuing the campaign stuff)
4. Important NPC write-ups
5. Tables for Knowledge checks for the adventure region - I.e. regional info that may not be tied to adventure plot specifics. Ex K:Local rumors, gossip, local laws; K:Religion regional worship practices; K:Geography specific local landmarks, etc.

NO COLUMN:
1. Fiction
2. God articles
3. Anything else not directly tied to adventure in some way
4. See #1
5. Spells
6. Feats
7. Classes (prestige classes or archetypes would be acceptable if they're integral to adventure plot)

Taldor

I'm just willing to wait and see... as you know I love PAIZO and love the quality of materials, but while DESIGN is exceptional and exceeds my expectations, usability suffers because of layout and lack of ability to use quickly. Generally speaking, the products are long-winded (I do love the story detail, but my feedback is around how long it takes to read through to more fully grasp all the story nuances).

I prefer shorter, crisper, more concise modules. As a GM of 30 years, it sure would be nice to have a product that actually got shorter rather than longer. I don't need 60% of what I already get. I'd prefer outlines, statblocks and concise story write up, with a layout easily tagged so I can grab sections for use within my ongoing homebrew campaign. As a designer myself (in a different field) I appreciate the thoroughness and design to the LCD (lowest common denominator - i.e. the audience that needs everything spelled out for them, but it becomes frustrating when I wish to use the module but am forced to read 32 or now 64 pages just to get ready to run an adventure. Having more, is sometimes actually a pain. So all I can say is I'll wait and see.

Pax

Edit: I just re-read the description of what we'll be getting in the module, and it might be a fine choice. Perhaps what I'll get is six smaller leveling storylines from which I can pick and choose. The format is reminiscent of James Jacobs' Red Hand Of Doom, which also used sections and progressed in many levels. The back of the book had stat blocks cleanly written for those wishing to "pull out excepts" and the addition poster, if highly usable, would greatly appeal to me. So, in sum, I bet I'm going to get exactly what I need from those smaller "leveling" chuncks, while having the opportunity to expand the story over several levels thematically. One additional positive, is that PAIZO has good design choices when it comes to grouping thematic encounters.. so it might be very useful having these small 64-page adventure paths all in one book. That said, I now wonder the true difference between the regular APs and the modules line.... Hmmmn. Again, I'll wait and see - I look forward to the first one being delivered to my doorstep; I will give it a go. The true measurement in this improvement is the frequency with which I actually USE them, rather than shelve them or glance for mild inspiration. ... My complete module collection (including pre-Pathfinder modules for v.3.5) need dusting off, so perhaps it was time for a change.

Cheliax

BPorter wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

YES COLUMN:

1. Location gazetteers
2. Monsters from adventure - but I wouldn't want it to just be monsters (1 max)
3. Expanding the Adventure ideas (like the AP continuing the campaign stuff)
4. Important NPC write-ups
5. Tables for Knowledge checks for the adventure region - I.e. regional info that may not be tied to adventure plot specifics. Ex K:Local rumors, gossip, local laws; K:Religion regional worship practices; K:Geography specific local landmarks, etc.

NO COLUMN:
1. Fiction
2. God articles
3. Anything else not directly tied to adventure in some way
4. See #1
5. Spells
6. Feats
7. Classes (prestige classes or archetypes would be acceptable if they're integral to adventure plot)

Agreed. As for the NPC write ups, I'd rather see expanded background, motivations, tactics, and so on rather than stat blocs.

Sort of the structure of Crown of the Kobold King, on steroids.


Bellona wrote:
Scott McFarland wrote:

I'd also love to see each module come with a different sample party of 4 pre-generated player characters.

But then I'm also keen for Paizo to release a PC Codex book...

Do you mean beyond the NPC Codex - which is already out? That has the 11 basic iconics (Amiri/barbarian to Ezren/wizard) at many different levels, plus a whole lot more.

Nope, a PC Codex. Full of Paizo players' favourite PCs. With spells and equipment from all Paizo products, not just core.

I want to compare my favourite PC with someone else's.

Maybe it could start life as a Wayfinder-organised competition, to find the most awesomely interesting PCs.

A PC Codex could have a stat block on one page and a full page character backstory and illustration facing...

Andoran RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

In addition to brief gazeteers and monsters used in the module, it would be really cool to have a few pages of illustrations of key encounters in the adventure meant to be shown to the PCs, similar to some of the classic 1st edition adventures.

Expanded adventure hooks and ways to continue the adventure would be good also, including suggested prior and follow up adventures published by Paizo to assist in stringing together modules into mini-campaigns.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules Subscriber
BPorter wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

YES COLUMN:

1. Location gazetteers
2. Monsters from adventure - but I wouldn't want it to just be monsters (1 max)
3. Expanding the Adventure ideas (like the AP continuing the campaign stuff)
4. Important NPC write-ups
5. Tables for Knowledge checks for the adventure region - I.e. regional info that may not be tied to adventure plot specifics. Ex K:Local rumors, gossip, local laws; K:Religion regional worship practices; K:Geography specific local landmarks, etc.

NO COLUMN:
1. Fiction
2. God articles
3. Anything else not directly tied to adventure in some way
4. See #1
5. Spells
6. Feats
7. Classes (prestige classes or archetypes wouuld be acceptable if they're integral to adventure plot)

This!

I really like the small location gazetteers found in the comics. They are great to flesh out the world...
Pictures of locations. This always comes kind of short in adventures. I love to show my players what kind of location they are about to enter... But art is expensive, I know... :(

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm wondering how they will work with PFS in this new format.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

Articles on material directly tied to the adventure (organizations, gods/demigods, regions, settlements, etc.). Expanded writeups of major NPCs might be nice to see as well, just like you've done with the latest adventure paths.

Fluff's the name of the game for me. If a new monster or some other game mechanic is needed, cool, but for me fluff is more important.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

NPC and Magic Item write-ups similar to how they're presented in the APs would be nifty.

Special rules that apply to the scenario might be an interesting inclusion as well (in the same way ship-to-ship combat, or mass combat rules were included in the AP chapters they were relevant to).

Location Gazeteers are always handy.

Basically if it makes a GM's life easier then include it.

Qadira

Well, I'm not quite sure what to think about those changes. Apart from the adventure paths, I'd rather have short Dungeon Mag-Style adventures (the PFS scenarios kinda fill this niche, though I don't have much use for the Pathfinder Society Background). In this respect, the 32-page adventures already were too long for my taste so to explode the format to 64 pages probably is probably even more problematic when it comes to include it in my games.

On the other hand, the Red Hand of Doom - minicampaign was awesome and if the new format allows the authors to explore stories and plots too small for APs but to big for 32-pagers, this may get even better than what I get out of the APs.

Regarding point 2, I'm not sure if I would want to see too much additional material in the books. If it should shorten the adventure too much, then I'd probably not have any use for it anymore. Location backdrops in the vein of the AP #1's Sandpoint article would probably be fine, as would be other fluff. I could do without any additional crunch (if this is necessary for the adventure, it should be included there instead).

I'll surely give it a try though.

Cheliax

NPCs, magic items, more info on the adventure location, and probably a couple of short side-treks or optional encounters. More maps and hand-outs, too. :)

Qadira

I would like to see only support articles that are very strongly tied to the adventure itself - for example what you are already doing with Mr. Shel's "Dragon's Demand" where the support article is about the town the PCs are saving. The more setting related stuff have a cozy home in the APs, for now.


BPorter wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

YES COLUMN:

1. Location gazetteers
2. Monsters from adventure - but I wouldn't want it to just be monsters (1 max)
3. Expanding the Adventure ideas (like the AP continuing the campaign stuff)
4. Important NPC write-ups
5. Tables for Knowledge checks for the adventure region - I.e. regional info that may not be tied to adventure plot specifics. Ex K:Local rumors, gossip, local laws; K:Religion regional worship practices; K:Geography specific local landmarks, etc.

NO COLUMN:
1. Fiction
2. God articles
3. Anything else not directly tied to adventure in some way
4. See #1
5. Spells
6. Feats
7. Classes (prestige classes or archetypes would be acceptable if they're integral to adventure plot)

I strongly agree with this.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would really like short Info on interesting NPC's and then plot hooks that use these NPC's and are somehow tied to the adventure. If it could also be linked to specific (but mostly undesrcibed) places on the map, that would be awesome.

It would expand the GM's options in a very cool way. It would be like the adventure is the central part of the "mythology" and then the short info is all the apocryphal stuff that sparks the imagination and makes ideas fly.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Laric wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

YES COLUMN:

1. Location gazetteers
2. Monsters from adventure - but I wouldn't want it to just be monsters (1 max)
3. Expanding the Adventure ideas (like the AP continuing the campaign stuff)
4. Important NPC write-ups
5. Tables for Knowledge checks for the adventure region - I.e. regional info that may not be tied to adventure plot specifics. Ex K:Local rumors, gossip, local laws; K:Religion regional worship practices; K:Geography specific local landmarks, etc.

NO COLUMN:
1. Fiction
2. God articles
3. Anything else not directly tied to adventure in some way
4. See #1
5. Spells
6. Feats
7. Classes (prestige classes or archetypes would be acceptable if they're integral to adventure plot)

I strongly agree with this.

+1

Additionally from the YES column:
#4 - not stat blocks but tactics, back story, and/or Role play opportunities
#5 - Love tables that give juicy ideas for skill check results.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Laric wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

YES COLUMN:

1. Location gazetteers
2. Monsters from adventure - but I wouldn't want it to just be monsters (1 max)
3. Expanding the Adventure ideas (like the AP continuing the campaign stuff)
4. Important NPC write-ups
5. Tables for Knowledge checks for the adventure region - I.e. regional info that may not be tied to adventure plot specifics. Ex K:Local rumors, gossip, local laws; K:Religion regional worship practices; K:Geography specific local landmarks, etc.

NO COLUMN:
1. Fiction
2. God articles
3. Anything else not directly tied to adventure in some way
4. See #1
5. Spells
6. Feats
7. Classes (prestige classes or archetypes would be acceptable if they're integral to adventure plot)

I strongly agree with this.

It might be worth noting that the shorter modules have already featured these things, to all ou benefit.

- multiple monsters
- monster templates
- spells
- feats

  • Hollow's Last Hope had two magic items and a monster... that was just a mini module.
  • Revenge of the Kobold King contains 2 feat, one new weapon, one new artifact, and one new monster... another mini module
  • Hungry are the Dead has three new spells and a bunch of magic items, and the only reason it has only one new monster is because it taps ToH so much.
  • Blood of Dragonscar has 2 new templates and another artifact.
    Carnival of Tears has a new monster and a new template.

What's worth noting is that some of these cool things which began in modules are now Paizo classics: tatzylworms, cold riders, quicklings...

I wouldn't want Paizo to have any rules laid down about adventure content in a 64-page format which were actually more restrictive than the shorter modules. That seems like a terrible idea.

On the 'no column' I can understand 1 and 3 seems obvious but that's about it: if we had a special unique god designed for a module that could be a cool thing.
Y'know, like Droskar.


On the whole god article thing I'd say that while I would prefer that Paizo kept the 6+ page instalments to the AP-line (I like a bit of thematic centralisation), if there'd been room for something like a 2-page article of the kind in Gods & Magic about Droskar or Kalavei in the modules that introduced them (and in a 64-pager I suspect there'd have been room for that), I'd have been pleased as punch.

Cheliax

I already favorited BPorter but wanted to emphasize a bit more.

Side Treks were awesome back in the day! I would buy a whole product full of nothing but side treks. Not even short society mods that I have already bought and run many of. Even they can take a long time to read fully through and prep. I mean super short side treks that are around 6 pages or less each. You don't even have to list enermy stats, just number of, and page in the Beastiary or NPC Codex. Eventually expand to refrences to archetypes and or base classes like the APG. I cannot stress enough how much I would love the return of Side Treks!

A list of red hairings that can be turned into random encounters or not red hairings at all, but part of the adventure. Stuff that can be easily pruned for shorter mini campaigns or expanded on.

I think it is better to leave feats, classes, spells and magic items to books dedicated to those aspects of the game. Maybe, just maybe, they might be worth introducing for an NPC to make the encounter interesting. I am very doubtful of but not totally against presenting very thematic archetypes /prestige classes tailored to the story. With only a few levels worth of play, again, I am doubtful this would be a good idea.

Local news/gossip is wonderful. Even far away news/gossip Cain be great. The local knowledge(what ever appropriate knowledge) checks are also fabulous. Diary entries like Nualia's used to lead the adventure or answer questions can be nice. When I read the contents of Nualia's in the first few pages of Runelords, I knew I was in for a special product.

Like several others, I would disdain putting fiction into these products. The only thing close to such that I could tolerate would be stuff like Nualia's diary.

Of course entry level products are a necessity for level 1&2 PCs but I hope to see more product like The Red Hand of DOOM! I think APs are too long to get people through. Please focus on adventures that begin at level 3 or above but not many that focus on beginning at level ten or above. Theses numbers allow a nice few levels of progression but avoid being too long for real world people to keep getting together before they break apart.

No more than one or two new monsters. If two, they should have some sort of combo element, otherwise just stick to one or no new monsters.

Taldor

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Raymond Lambert wrote:
A list of red hairings

pedantry:
It is a red herring. See here for more.
Taldor RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Question: Will Society XP be shifted to account for the additional length of these modules?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm mostly neutral on this change. I didn't subscribe before, and I probably won't after. What I really miss is Dungeon, or something like it. Pack these with assorted smaller adventures and we'll talk...

Cheliax

I concur with Bugleyman.

I am really curious how, or if at all, these will be incorporated in society play. Will they be broken up like hoe the APs were broken up?

They are also harder considering the final battle expects you to have leveled up once if not twice with extra xp from an occasional random encounter that a two rounder society play does not have time for. This can be extra challenging for someone who just barely qualifies to play at the low level.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:

I have a question for everyone reading this thread. Let's say an adventure didn't take up all 64 pages and there was some back matter included, what kind of material would you most like to see? What kind of material would you least like to see?

As it is, many of the previous modules included a little gazetteer of the location to adventure takes place and a new monster that was included in the adventure. Is that kind of stuff good enough or would you like to see a bit more to help you run the adventures? (Of course, the adventure is the focus here, and won't be condensed to accommodate extra material if it 's not needed.)

In general, you want the back matter to be stuff that's useful enough to be reused, but not so useful that PaizoCorp expects you to own it. That's why I like towns more than monsters.

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