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4-10 Feast of Sigils (Spoilers)


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

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Cheliax **

My question, and I hate to be the power gamer that opens up this line of thought.
Imp familiar decides to eat one, because well it's an Imp. That going to make the Wizard / Sorc require an atonement?

Taldor ***

I got the image Miss Feathers looked like this.

I might still run ... Miss Feathers as a comic relief.

Silver Crusade ****

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Most parties should have access to some form of resist energy or protection from energy, however. My players were complaining about how broken the fight was, but my druid player only remembered at the end that he had a wand to give everyone resist electricity 10. That and a few bags of powder would have made the fight absolutely trivial.

Not really.

It would have taken a long time to cast resist energy on everybody

Powder only lasts for 1 round and only means you know where to hit. Still a 50% miss chance.

I did use faerie fire. That is my anti invisibility spell. Doesn't work on these scum :), No way I'd have known until I tried.

Cheliax ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deussu wrote:

I got the image Miss Feathers looked like this.

I might still run ... Miss Feathers as a comic relief.

I really can't condone running someone's sexuality as comic relief. The very reason Miss Feathers is listed as a woman in this scenario is to avoid going with the "man in the dress" joke. Your picture — and the idea that a transgender person is a laughing matter — are both very inappropriate in my opinion.

Taldor ***

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Deussu wrote:

I got the image Miss Feathers looked like this.

I might still run ... Miss Feathers as a comic relief.

I really can't condone running someone's sexuality as comic relief. The very reason Miss Feathers is listed as a woman in this scenario is to avoid going with the "man in the dress" joke. Your picture — and the idea that a transgender person is a laughing matter — are both very inappropriate in my opinion.

Why take it so seriously? Real people in the real world are a totally different matter opposed to this fictional character in a medieval-ish world, which might host some more conservative views.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Deussu wrote:
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Deussu wrote:

I got the image Miss Feathers looked like this.

I might still run ... Miss Feathers as a comic relief.

I really can't condone running someone's sexuality as comic relief. The very reason Miss Feathers is listed as a woman in this scenario is to avoid going with the "man in the dress" joke. Your picture — and the idea that a transgender person is a laughing matter — are both very inappropriate in my opinion.
Why take it so seriously? Real people in the real world are a totally different matter opposed to this fictional character in a medieval-ish world, which might host some more conservative views.

A big part of it is that a lot of people don't want to run into dehumanizing caricatures that they may very well have to put up with in real life. Trangendered folks put up with enough crap in the real world. Why dump on them in an escapist fantasy game too?

Also, Golarion actually tends to be more openminded about sexuality and gender in general than the modern real world in general. Golarion doesn't have an accurate* medieval mindset in most places, going for something more modern.

*"accurate" as in "matching what is currently popularly believed to true about medieval life"

Taldor ***

This sounds like you think I somehow depict Miss Feathers demeaningly. That's not the case at all. If we'd go along this path we shouldn't play any character anywhere in a comic relief way. Not the funny drunk dwarf, as that'd be somehow dumping on alcoholics?

Come on. Miss Feathers is just a character with a memorable quirk which differs considerably from the other NPC quirkiness. This makes Miss Feathers a popular NPC the players will remember and are keen to roleplay with.

Cheliax ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would say she can indeed be a popular and memorable NPC without having to make the fact that she's transgender a joke. She can flirt with the PCs, and she can pick out someone and ask if they want to 'talk privately'; what I don't think is appropriate is making the entire joke "haha, she has a non-heteronormative sexuality". In fact, I think making that part a joke is offensive.

****

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

I'm of a simmilar view as Deussu, Miss Feathers is a intresting character that I feel can be played in a way that can be memorable for the players without being offensive but has a strong element of humor. For refrence I left the character the same as in city of strangers as I had just ran part 2 for at least one of the players and I tend to try to keep characters the same. That approch was pointed out earlyer in the thread was fine for gms to do so. When the players react, interact and have fun with the concept I have for an ncp that's a win in my book and I'm all for people remembering the characters they encounter.

If you think that this is the incorect approach and the this character needs to be treated with more sensitivity than any other ncp I have run because of the gender issue that were going to have to agree to disagree Mikaze.

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Deussu wrote:

I got the image Miss Feathers looked like this.

I might still run ... Miss Feathers as a comic relief.

I really can't condone running someone's sexuality as comic relief. The very reason Miss Feathers is listed as a woman in this scenario is to avoid going with the "man in the dress" joke. Your picture — and the idea that a transgender person is a laughing matter — are both very inappropriate in my opinion.

Please quit confusing sexuality, gender identity, and being a drag queen.

Miss Feathers is a prostitute. I also assumed she was a drag queen, which is a performance art, not a sexuality or gender identity. It is hard to determine what her sexuality and gender identity actually is, as with drag queens and prostitutes in general.

Drag queens are a celebrated aspect of gay life. Drag queens are frequently supposed to be comical, which is why they do the mix and mingle so much at both gay and straight bars. So protraying a drag queen as comical is perfectly fine, because many drag queens intend to be comical.

Drag queens are not the same thing as being transgendered. Some trans women are offended by drag queens because they hate being confused with drag queens. Other trans women celebrate them as allies in the fight for LGBT rights.

However, I am afraid that the description of Miss Feathers was changed not so much to appease portions of the trans women community, but to appease people who didn't find her to be "family-friendly". Honestly, that bothers me, but then again so does the lack of LGBT NPCs in a world that is supposed to be fairly open-minded.

I still am not clear on whether Miss Feathers is a drag queen, a trans women, or both. And yes, you can be both.

If she is a trans women, the only trans women npc, then having her as a prostitute is somewhat offensive. She should have been a fellow pathfinder or something. Because being a drag queen is performance art, and neither a sexuality nor a gender identity, a prostitute drag queen is a lot more common in the real world and is a lot more socially acceptable, IMHO.

**

One other thing, Miss Feathers is clearly a stage name. This suggests being a drag queen, but it's hard to tell as prostitutes also pick stage names.

A trans women, who was not also a drag queen, would probably pick a normal name like Claire or Susan.

Drag queens are commonly comic figures. Trans women are not comical.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Furious Kender wrote:
However, I am afraid that the description of Miss Feathers was changed not so much to appease portions of the trans women community, but to appease people who didn't find her to be "family-friendly". Honestly, that bothers me, but then again so does the lack of LGBT NPCs in a world that is supposed to be fairly open-minded.

I can assure you that the change in Miss Feathers's gender in her micro statblock was not to present a more family-friendly game. When the scenario was first concepted, we knew we couldn't go back to Kaer Maga without using Miss Feathers, as she was one of the most memorable NPCs from the city, if not the entire campaign. When doing so, we thought long and hard about the best way to present her given that she'd already appeared in another scenario and had established canonical elements. But the decision not to describe her sexual orientation or gender identity more than we did was also conscious. Just as we wouldn't explain every NPC's private parts to define whether they're physically male or female, we didn't for Miss Feathers.

Whether a GM players her for laughs is up to that GM, but we decided to treat the character seriously in this scenario and will continue doing so anytime she appears in the future.

**

Mark Moreland wrote:
Furious Kender wrote:
However, I am afraid that the description of Miss Feathers was changed not so much to appease portions of the trans women community, but to appease people who didn't find her to be "family-friendly". Honestly, that bothers me, but then again so does the lack of LGBT NPCs in a world that is supposed to be fairly open-minded.

I can assure you that the change in Miss Feathers's gender in her micro statblock was not to present a more family-friendly game. When the scenario was first concepted, we knew we couldn't go back to Kaer Maga without using Miss Feathers, as she was one of the most memorable NPCs from the city, if not the entire campaign. When doing so, we thought long and hard about the best way to present her given that she'd already appeared in another scenario and had established canonical elements. But the decision not to describe her sexual orientation or gender identity more than we did was also conscious. Just as we wouldn't explain every NPC's private parts to define whether they're physically male or female, we didn't for Miss Feathers.

Whether a GM players her for laughs is up to that GM, but we decided to treat the character seriously in this scenario and will continue doing so anytime she appears in the future.

That's good the hear Mark.

Just to be clear, it sounds like Miss Feathers is a drag queen who identifies herself as female when the characters meet her, but could actually be of any sexual orientation or gender identity. If this is who she is, then simply say that next time she is presented. This can make for a comic character, as that is what many drag queens want to be. However, as a prostitute, she is potentially a tragic figure as well.

Before, it sounded more like Miss Feathers was being changed into a transgendered woman or a transsexual, who was not a drag queen. This is a much more serious character who, as a prostitute, is quite tragic as well.

Being unclear on whether she's a drag queen or not is what is leading to the misunderstandings. People who saw her as a more serious character reasonably were offended by those who saw her as a comic drag queen. This is something where leaving things unsaid is worse that simply stating:

"Miss Feathers is a drag queen and a prostitute. As part of her act, she may behave comically."

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Furious Kender wrote:
"Miss Feathers is a drag queen and a prostitute. As part of her act, she may behave comically."

We did not say this because that's not the case; she's strung out on drugs and on the run, neither of which would lend itself to behaving comically. In the previous scenario, Miss Feathers identified as a male; now she identifies as a female. Whether that means she's a drag queen, a transwoman, gay, straight, bi, tragic, or perfectly content to be a prostitute independent of anything else going on isn't really something I wanted to get into.

We don't go into the details of the sexual orientation of most NPCs because they're not tokens. We haven't really talked much at all about which of our iconics is gay, which faction head is gay, nor what venture-captains are. It may be that sometime in the future Miss Feathers's sexual and gender identities are key elements of a scenario's plot, in which case they'll get more detail, but until then, what's presented in the scenario is what you have to work with.

Taldor ***

I'm expecting at least on PC to ask her "How was the operation?"

yoda, so VCs are now inclined to tell you their sexual orientation? ;)

Qadira ** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

I suspect he's referring to the VCs in game.

As far as IRL VCs go, that's obviously for them to reveal. I can say that Kyle Baird enjoys killing male, female, and elf characters, and is pretty indiscriminate about what gender the players are too.

Cheliax ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This brings me back to some interesting observations on caricatures in real life.

I can do a range of accents: English , Scottish , Russian, Hong Kong, Japanese, Arabic, and these are all received really well. - But the moment I do an Indian or African accent people sometimes flip out - even if they are really accurate and based on actual first hand knowledge of the culture. It's bizarre. I enjoyed royally dressing down one uppity white player who told me off re: the Indian thing, not realizing I *am* Indian... (I am only half, so ambiguously brown is a more accurate description)

Sometimes I think people should take a step back and think of whether something is upsetting because it breaks Politically Correct normative assumptions, or because it is a contentious issue - and whether it truly is upsetting.

Some of the most racist responses I have seen when taking < Asian ethnicity> clients to a <different Asian ethnicity> restaurant.

It was clear to me initially that Miss Feathers was a Drag Queen. Now that has changed because it could be perceived as insulting the Transgendered community. I get where M&M are coming from. Having said that most of our local community remembers her as she was.

The fantasy world isn't more accepting than the modern world, Paizo is just more accepting in its publication - which is awesome.

I think people should just accept Paizo have chosen to portray Miss Feather's differently now, and roll with it.

Different people are offended by different things. I know at least one gay friend who would have been offended that Miss Feathers was now a 'woman' and another (straight) who would have been offended if she would have stayed 'male' as a Drag Queen. I don't know any Transgendered people, but I am sure their opinions would differ based on whether they saw Miss Feathers as a Drag Queen or Transgendered.

The best solution here is to stop over-thinking it, understand why Paizo changed the characterization, and tailor Miss Feathers to the proclivities of your party. If you try to please everyone all of the time, you will never succeed.

Taldor ***

I'll write a lengthier report later, but I have to mention this:

I begun running Miss Feathers as the serious self portrayed, but the players nearly insisted I'd run her more like they've seen her be represented. This spurred a short off-topic conversation and I then reverted her to Mr. T with a boa of pink feathers. The drag queen Miss Feathers, that is.

They were still a little disappointed how (s)he's all serious and doesn't have the funny quirkiness. Actually, most players were anticipating to meet Miss Feathers again. So the conscious decision wasn't the best one for us.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm more kin to run Miss Feathers matter-of-factly: she is a person with her own dimensions and personality beyond what can feasibly be written on paper. Her appearance in CoS happens to be that of a man dressed as a woman, while in FoS her appearance has altered... Do you look the same as you did three years ago?

Perhaps Miss Feathers will never have anything to say on the subject, and she may just want us all to drop the subject. I've had several lengthy talks about trans issues as part of my work with my university's Queer Straight Alliance, and something I heard Mara Kesling say when asked about how student programing could target more trans population and participation, was that the more attention you draw to the trans population, especially particular persons in that community, the less participation you will recieve: most trans persons would rather blend into the background rather than stand out. For that I say lets respect Miss Feather's privicay and drop the subject.

Shadow Lodge *

I know I was disappointed over the change. I liked Miss Feathers much better as a humorous character and generally think a far easier way to represent trans*people, or queer people in general, is not to go retcon existing npcs but have non-token, non-humorous queer NPCs alongside these quirky older ones. I'm not a trans*person, only a queer, so I would not know how someone might react to a trans*character(love that prefix!), but queers can often take a joke in stride and Miss Feathers was not offensive in any way. Now eir is just confusing. Boobs? A complete makeover? What?!

That said, I understand the difficulty of making a serious scenario and having to fit a character like a hulking Shoanti(?) drag artist into it. Something had to give if such an npc were to be included and it was either the scenario or the character itself. I guess the scenario just won in the end.

EDIT: I was in Deussu's group. Great scenario besides this change and some, from what I understand, confusingly edited sections on stairways and rooms and such. Damn it felt good to play in tier 10-11. And with a level 9 char to boot.! So much blood...

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yes, keep up the discussion about the person of no consequence at the beginning of the scenario. I'll just wait. No big deal.


Runelord of Sloth wrote:
Yes, keep up the discussion about the person of no consequence at the beginning of the scenario. I'll just wait. No big deal.

Isn't the point that the character is actually fondly remembered and not considered to be "of no consequence" by players?

I'm looking forward to the version of Nuar Spiritskin who isn't an albino (because that could be insulting to albinos) and who isn't short (because that could be insulting to short people). Just kidding... ;-)

****

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Runelord of Sloth wrote:
Yes, keep up the discussion about the person of no consequence at the beginning of the scenario. I'll just wait. No big deal.

Simmer down there lazy guy you still got a few months to sleep

*

I too have played the City of Strangers scenarios before and I didn't expect Miss Feathers to have changed so I was a little bewildered. However, while the other players talked about it, I was just: "Hm, okay." I accepted it and that was that. I would have been okay without it, but I understand why you chose to change Feathers, they were good reasons and it's also okay.

There's room for both serious transwomen and comical drag queens (and serious drag queens and comical transwomen for that matter) in Golarion (and Miss Feathers can be both, either or neither, simultaneously or sequentially). Just like there is room for Valax, the character I played in this scenario. (I dare you to look at this drawing of Valax.) There's room for all kinds of people, so hopefully we'll see more memorable NPCs in the future too.

Valax was disappointed at Feathers's seriousness on account of being, well, Valax. If I'd played with either of my two other characters who had been in City of Strangers, they'd have completely understood even if there had been a discrepancy in Feathers's behaviour.

The enemies in this Feast of Sigils were neat and varied. Valax was utterly useless throughout the scenario past identifying potions automatically and succeeding on one disarm and grapple check against a mook, and provided a traumatic, life-changing visual of getting chopped into pieces for another character. Good times!

The problems with the scenario were the numerous errors that drove the GM mad, but those are apparently (being) corrected, so that's great.

Shadow Lodge *

Runelord of Sloth wrote:
Yes, keep up the discussion about the person of no consequence at the beginning of the scenario. I'll just wait. No big deal.

Well, you are kinda out of our league, us being at best 2nd lvl experts. Likely just commoners.

Taldor ***

Right, I promised a lengthier report.

Line-up:
Vasco Cantige, Human Fighter 4/Ranger 3/Barbarian 2
Valax, Half-elf Monk 9/Sorcerer 1
Crosis, Human Cleric of Asmodeus 10
Dairhe Faulilj, Human Fighter 9/Ranger 1

Started off nicely, gave the briefings and blam, they're now in Kaer Maga. I have a habit of not instantly directing the players to the locale, so they may travel around the city if they so like.

And one chelaxian cleric of Asmodeus of course went to the church and insisted they ally with Zarta. I was a little confuzzled at first, then I discovered the church is unwilling and needs this extra encouragement via blackmail.

For reasons unknown to me the characters (not Valax, though) went off to all kinds of places. Eventually they met Miss Feathers and heard her (or his?) story and asked some questions. I should have made her excuse her behaviour. She is, after all, suffering from loss of a part of her (or his?) soul. Oddly his wafer isn't said to be found anywhere. So Miss Feathers will always feel incomplete. :(

So, onwards! To the lethe house. This is where the GM headache starts. The map is incomplete, the text has multiple errors and sometimes it's left to GM discretion. So, let me ask this one more time; the abandoned house leads to the sidealley... but from where? Also, does the stairwell beneath the debris and trash lead to the basement chapel (northmost stairs)? Gah!

Drollis is probably the first helpful and friendly villain. Again, I was little puzzled as to when Drollis initiates combat if at all. I figured that when he reveals the Symbol of ... on subtier 7-8, what symbol is it? Pain or sleep? Aaaargh! Anyway, Drollis and his goons provided an all right challenge with the symbol of weakness, but there's very little room in the ritual room for them to get to flanking position. Alas, the foes all died miserably.

The team *almost* went to have a night's rest because of the strength damage, but they did find the note and Gelwin. Apparently the bedroom does contain a footlocker, which should contain the stuff mentioned in Drollis combat. So confusing.

The wisp fight proved oddly hard, maybe because they had no electricity resistance. Despite my best efforts, they did not trigger the glyph of warding.

Now, the last match was really hard. The error I had made was remembering Wind Wall wrong; I forgot it was static and didn't move with the caster. Dairhe is an archer and as a GM... I HATE ARCHERS! Wind Wall the only way to render them less than overpowering, giving the cleric at least a fighting chance.

Anyway, some had to run through the blade barrier, managed to get a 82 point critical to Kesoulla, and then Crosis blasted an empowered fireball, 66 points of damage... but Kesoulla had just cast Righteous Might, increasing her constitution by 4 and gaining 26 extra hit points... so she had 5 left. With that she shot Crosis to death with a flame strike. Vasco was dropped to negatives by the guard and Valax ran through the blade barrier, chopping himself into little pieces. Dairhe managed to get through the blade barrier by burning a few favors and rescued Vasco, after shooting Kesoulla to around -55 negative hp.

After a lot of raise deads and healing, they did what they could with the faction quests (Qadira failed its mission as they didn't have right clues to give the right wafers to right women). Actually, the three wafers are in the first 15 wafers. So, if one fails the DC 25 Spellcraft check and gives a wrong wafer to a woman, there's a chance the wafer belongs to either of the other two women.

No one consumed a wafer, which disappointed me.

Overall Feast of Sigils is nice scenario rifed with errors and editing mistakes.

Cheliax ***

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If a lawful neutral PC ate one of the signals, would that character be allowed to finish the scenario and get an atonement to avoid being removed from society play?

Taldor ***

Chris Ballard wrote:
If a lawful neutral PC ate one of the signals, would that character be allowed to finish the scenario and get an atonement to avoid being removed from society play?

Yes. The scenario is rather explicit about it; even if your alignment turns to evil, you can play the scenario to the finish, and *then* get the atonement.

Note that if a lawful neutral character eats a wafer, her or his alignment switches to lawful evil, and thus won't take any damage from the basement's Forbiddance. :)

Silver Crusade

The question I have is about the wafers. The wafers are marked with individual sigils for those of us who sit at the table. The damage effect is described as " you feel like a part of yourself is missing, even after you heal the damage. If you make the knowledge religion check on the wafers after the party dispenses with the cultists you get "if you eat the wafers you think you will get back the missing part of you." So those of us who sat at the table and had the unique wafers ate the ones that were "ours" fed the others back to everyone who survived having holy watered them all based on the knowledge religion result which told us that would sever the link between the wafers and the people. So we've sanctified all the wafers, given them back to those still living (one per person based on a knowledge religion check which tells the party doing this will restore them to health), only ate our own wafers, and destroyed the others. Explain to me how this is an evil act which needs an atonement? The cost of the atonement is trivial, but based on the information available to the characters, unless you eat a wafer without having lost something to the ritual, how is this evil?

Taldor ***

Hm, true. Consuming your own wafer shouldn't account to the evil alignment shift. If, however, you consume another soul's wafer and gain the bonuses, that's an evil act.

Qadira ***

Question on the mechanics of the "bonus to ability score"...

What if it's assigned to Int? does it give additional skill ranks? or does it work like a Headband of Int (giving a skill the characters level in ranks)?
For example: a 10th level PC adds the bonus to Int.
1) Does he get 10 additional skill points to add in? (and an additional language?)
2) or does he get 10 ranks in a skill (say Knowledge History)? or
3) something else?

additional questions:
How is this modified when he goes up a level (or more)?
How is this re-adjusted after the year is up?
How does this effect his bonus spells? (this question would apply for other spell caster classes - such as Wisdom and Clerics?

Thanks for your opinions!

Taldor ***

nosig wrote:

Question on the mechanics of the "bonus to ability score"...

What if it's assigned to Int? does it give additional skill ranks? or does it work like a Headband of Int (giving a skill the characters level in ranks)?
For example: a 10th level PC adds the bonus to Int.
1) Does he get 10 additional skill points to add in? (and an additional language?)
2) or does he get 10 ranks in a skill (say Knowledge History)? or
3) something else?

additional questions:
How is this modified when he goes up a level (or more)?
How is this re-adjusted after the year is up?
How does this effect his bonus spells? (this question would apply for other spell caster classes - such as Wisdom and Clerics?

Thanks for your opinions!

Since the bonus is temporary (albeit with a duration of 1 real life year), I'd suggest using the same method as with a headband of intellect; select a skill and put the skill to the max. When the effect ends, those skill points go away.

Qadira ***

Deussu wrote:
nosig wrote:

Question on the mechanics of the "bonus to ability score"...

What if it's assigned to Int? does it give additional skill ranks? or does it work like a Headband of Int (giving a skill the characters level in ranks)?
For example: a 10th level PC adds the bonus to Int.
1) Does he get 10 additional skill points to add in? (and an additional language?)
2) or does he get 10 ranks in a skill (say Knowledge History)? or
3) something else?

additional questions:
How is this modified when he goes up a level (or more)?
How is this re-adjusted after the year is up?
How does this effect his bonus spells? (this question would apply for other spell caster classes - such as Wisdom and Clerics?

Thanks for your opinions!

Since the bonus is temporary (albeit with a duration of 1 real life year), I'd suggest using the same method as with a headband of intellect; select a skill and put the skill to the max. When the effect ends, those skill points go away.

That's sort of what I thought too. But we need to all do it the same way (YMMV is not going to work well for this).

Taldor ***

nosig wrote:
Deussu wrote:
nosig wrote:

Question on the mechanics of the "bonus to ability score"...

What if it's assigned to Int? does it give additional skill ranks? or does it work like a Headband of Int (giving a skill the characters level in ranks)?
For example: a 10th level PC adds the bonus to Int.
1) Does he get 10 additional skill points to add in? (and an additional language?)
2) or does he get 10 ranks in a skill (say Knowledge History)? or
3) something else?

additional questions:
How is this modified when he goes up a level (or more)?
How is this re-adjusted after the year is up?
How does this effect his bonus spells? (this question would apply for other spell caster classes - such as Wisdom and Clerics?

Thanks for your opinions!

Since the bonus is temporary (albeit with a duration of 1 real life year), I'd suggest using the same method as with a headband of intellect; select a skill and put the skill to the max. When the effect ends, those skill points go away.
That's sort of what I thought too. But we need to all do it the same way (YMMV is not going to work well for this).

Yeah, unfortunately the "temporary intelligence bonus does this" section is missing. Headband of Intellect should set the example for all longer-than-some-minutes temporary intelligence bonuses.

Qadira ** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

In the glossary it spells out what makes a bonus temporary versus permanent.

Quote:
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

You would treat it as if your character's intelligence increased by two from a tome or even an increase based on level advancement.

The mechanics on the headband of intellect are redundant with this statement and intended to clarify it. IMO, it's led to more confusion than anything.

Taldor ***

Dennis Baker wrote:

In the glossary it spells out what makes a bonus temporary versus permanent.

Quote:
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

You would treat it as if your character's intelligence increased by two from a tome or even an increase based on level advancement.

The mechanics on the headband of intellect are redundant with this statement and intended to clarify it. IMO, it's led to more confusion than anything.

Regardless, those extra skill points must be 'marked' because when the soul wafer goes away, so do the skill points ... if the bonus is put to intelligence of course.

Qadira ** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Indeed.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just put the skill points into something useless, like Diplomacy.

Qadira ***

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:
Just put the skill points into something useless, like Diplomacy.

Truer than you know. The PC I played in this normally has a -4 Diplomacy, so the 8 ranks would give him a 4. But he would consider it waisted points...

Silver Crusade ****

Runelord of Sloth wrote:
Yes, keep up the discussion about the person of no consequence at the beginning of the scenario. I'll just wait. No big deal.

I'm of the opinion that you would wait...feels "right" for you. Considering your title and all. :P

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ran this last weekend: the party went in with the notion that all season 4 scenarios punish you for following the rails, so they decided to bust in through the back rather than come back for the feast with Drollis...

Spoiler:
party was decimated by the wisps, no electric resistance, I kept them in the air slightly so no PCs could have sneak attack or flanking, I should have had them fighting defensively too but forgot about that until it was too late - one player was knocked unconcious twice, and the rest of the party was into single digits (no primary healer among them) - if it weren't for the bard using glitter dust and see invisibility they would have completely been pulverised

After investigating the people they were there to rescue, they decided the cult was too dangerous to let live... even though they still had no idea what the cult was doing exactly (see jumping rails above). They proceeded downstairs...

Spoiler:
With Detect Magic up, the party noticed the forbiddance zone, and the Rogue's trapspotter was high enough to know the workings of the trap (WHY IS THIS LISTED AS A TRAP???). The party decided to hold at the top os the stairs and buff signifigantly before heading down... due to the symbol of scrying, I had the BBEG direct a minion to use the other stairs and fetch Drollis so as to approach the PCs from the back.

The party rushed down the stairs invisibly, went around the fighters to go melee the cleric. She got one round of spell-casting off - a harm spell against the rogue who dropped to 1hp - but then was dropped before she could do much of anything else. The bard burned a scroll of Summon Monster 6 to have a Shadow Demon take care of all the fighters. When Drollis came down the stairs, he ran into the PC monk, and I had them get into a grapple fight... with the intent of moving the PC monk into and out-of the forbiddence repeatedly... but Drollis didn't last long enough either

Overall, this was a cake-walk compared to other high-level season 4 scenarios, even with their being no cleric or priamry healer in the party. The party bard was the most prepared for anything, burnt the most resources, but also gave the party the upper-hand.

Spoiler:
oh, and his insane skill checks made the moral issues non-existant... no one ate the cookies :-(
Because the party jumped the rails, they didn't really know what was going on until they could read the cult's notes, and many were just gung-ho about their faction missions

****

There are a few things that I need to point out here.

First, I think that the change of Miss Feathers wasn't a great choice, but I can see why it was done, even if I don't agree with it. One of the reasons that I think that this wasn't a great choice is because I play and run primarily in a location where one week we could do a Season 1 scenario and the next we could do a Season 4, so many times we have to discount the fact that scenarios from different seasons take place in the same amount of time that they are presented in the real world, as it's quite possible that someone could finish City of Strangers and less than 2 months later run this.

Now that I got that off my chest, there is one other issue that I noticed upon reading this again for preparation. Area B1 notes that the map is supposed to be marked where some of the guards are supposed to be placed. They aren't.

Not a huge gripe, but something that someone should look into if Paizo ends up doing another update on this scenario.

****

More wafer questions.

* The atonement spell removes the alignment change; does the same casting also restore paladin powers lost by committing an evil act? Ditto for other deity-driven casters who lose their powers by being more than 1 step away from their deity's alignment for the scenario.

* In another scenario, a cursed item has the same "one shift towards evil" mechanic. In that case, the item needed to be removed before an atonement did anything, and you couldn't just go and use the item again because it's another evil act. In essence, keeping/using the bonus is the evil act. So, in this case, does the atonement help you atone by removing the profane bonus, or does the profane bonus remain even after you've atoned?

Cheliax **

Im more curious about the side affects of the wafers, we were told that they are highly addictive, and it needs to be done multiple times a week or else. SO uh.. What happens when I run out of these tasty snacks? *Munchs on soul cookies*

Qadira ** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Quote:
In essence, keeping/using the bonus is the evil act. So, in this case, does the atonement help you atone by removing the profane bonus, or does the profane bonus remain even after you've atoned?

The specific mechanics behind the soul cookies were added in development so I'm not really sure about this. The impression I get is you can eat a wafer and so long as you take atonement by the end of the scenario you are "Ok".

Quote:
Im more curious about the side affects of the wafers, we were told that they are highly addictive

As far as I recall the text doesn't describe the sigil wafers as being addictive.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don't play PFS, but I regularly use slightly-modified PFS scenarios in my home campaign.

Anyway, I'm prepping a version of Feast of Sigils to run in my game, and decided that I might need an in-game drug write-up for lethe. (I have a strong feeling that one of my PCs will try it.)

So, for anyone else that might want unofficial in-game effects, here's what I'm running...

LETHE
Type inhaled; Addiction major, Fort DC 20
Price 10 gp
Effects 1 hour; +1d4 alchemical bonus to Charisma; fatigue
Effect variable; 25% chance user will permanently forget one memory of user's choice up to 5 minutes in length, as modify memory
Damage 1d6 Int damage

While seemingly a boon to those who have experienced terrible things, this insidious drug causes addicts to lose more and more of their own pasts.

Shadow Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Blew this scenario apart with a Hexcrafter Magus and a Witch double teaming slumber hex. Put every single bad guy to sleep for easy coup de gras. lvl 13 cleric is tough but still very human.

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

1 person marked this as a favorite.
hxcmike wrote:
Blew this scenario apart with a Hexcrafter Magus and a Witch double teaming slumber hex. Put every single bad guy to sleep for easy coup de gras. lvl 13 cleric is tough but still very human.

It happens. Torqued Save or Suck characters will blow through the encounters they are designed to own. I ended the final fight early with my Priest of Razmir (Bard) with an extended Cacophonous Call. Fear Razmir's terrible brown note.

**

I just noticed that the forbidden effect would probably kill most familiars that come along. I've never seen it run this way, or ran it this way. But it seems like raw.

However, it's pretty harsh given how expensive a familiar is.

*****

Furious Kender wrote:

I just noticed that the forbidden effect would probably kill most familiars that come along. I've never seen it run this way, or ran it this way. But it seems like raw.

However, it's pretty harsh given how expensive a familiar is.

It's not that many d6s. You'd need to have a non-lawful spellcaster with lower than 60 or so health (barring high d6 rolls) and have the familiar fail the save, so it definitely won't be an issue in the high tier. Many groups use detect magic a good amount of the time, so they should be able to spot the forbiddance. Even if not, the familiar is probably not at the front of the party, so they'll see that everyone keeps getting zapped. At that point, it's their own fault if they don't leave the familiars upstairs (and if the familiar was in the front, that was a conscious decision to put it at risk).

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