I still wistfully remember when I was well known enough around here that when I met Mike McArtor at PaizoCon 1 and was like "Holy crap! You're Mike McArtor!" he looked at my nametag and went "Holy crap! You're Grimcleaver!"
That comment totally made my life! (so if any of you know him and he was just screwing with me...DON'T TELL ME! I couldn't take it.)
...cause I'm too stubborn and fragile. Heh.
You played 4E without maps and minis?
Tons! It was LEGENDARY! Don't tell them or I'll get in so much trouble.
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If you are looking at moving people (especially a GM) toward speaking in character a nice trick is to use the mission briefing. If they are reading or paraphrasing the box text they will usually be doing it in character. Most Venture captains give people space to ask questions after the briefing. Follow the conversation and respond in character with questions. Ones that get people thinking about whats going on. A little humor makes it less scary.
Something like "I do have a question, Ms. Heidmarch. I like your style, but couldn't you have had the blood cleaned off these badges before giving them to us?"
They have short scripts for a lot of the questions players can ask, so it might not be as intimidating as making them improvise in the middle of a scehario.
In so many words? Jason Buhlman. Also got ripped a new one by some contributor, but I didn't recognize his name so I don't recall it. Shame too--back in the day I would have walked in front of a bus for those guys. Ah well.
I believe the thinking was that the way we played the game was different enough from the way most folks play that we weren't really contributing to the same game--and the main thrust of Pathfinder was to preserve and refine 3.5, not to change it even more. That said, a few of my ideas did get as far as the beta--which really thrilled the heck outta' me at the time.
There's still a post on some of the variant rules we were using back before Pathfinder went its own way.
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What was the last edition you played? "Maps and minis" have been an assumed part of the game for a long time, I'm afraid.GAMING HISTORY: (This explains a lot)
Cyberpunk
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Began playtesting 5e (which is the Hatori Hazo Sword of D&D)Moved, started into Pathfinder Society map and minis for the first time ever.
First, this sounds awesome! I have a gaming group that I've been part of for more than a decade now that does narrative roleplaying and I try to bring as much of that to PFS as I can. As others in the thread have said, between the Table Variation section and the Reward Creative Solutions sections of the guide it's not difficult to make a place for it.
The Map and Miniatures can take some getting used to but it does have some advantages. It can speed up combat a lot, and makes it easier for visual people to keep track of where they are. If they are using pre-printed maps, it can spur creativity. (I've been disarmed? I grab that knife on the table and stab him) With enough knowledge, it can also be used to help your narrative thinking. ("I have room to run and 40 feet of movement. I can make a DC XX acrobatics check during my move to jump off the balcony and use my standard action to grapple that blasted kobold who has spider climbed onto the ceiling. ") It's hard for a GM to say no when you are using the rules to be awesome. :)
I didn't say roleplayers need not apply--just thanks for your input but it isn't really of use to us. *shrug* Anyway folks asked about my history with the game, and that's pretty much it. Big Dragon Magazine fan, bridged over to Pathfinder, then 4e, then 5e, then back.
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If they are using pre-printed maps, it can spur creativity. (I've been disarmed? I grab that knife on the table and stab him)
My brother was disarmed while fighting one of the most famously deadly BBEGs in PFS. He then proceeded to break a chair across the baddie's teeth, critting for the KO.
That sounds cool!
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
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If they are using pre-printed maps, it can spur creativity. (I've been disarmed? I grab that knife on the table and stab him)My brother was disarmed while fighting one of the most famously deadly BBEGs in PFS. He then proceeded to break a chair across the baddie's teeth, critting for the KO.
You have to be CHAIRful when using improvised weaponry.
First, this sounds awesome! I have a gaming group that I've been part of for more than a decade now that does narrative roleplaying and I try to bring as much of that to PFS as I can. As others in the thread have said, between the Table Variation section and the Reward Creative Solutions sections of the guide it's not difficult to make a place for it.
The Map and Miniatures can take some getting used to but it does have some advantages. It can speed up combat a lot, and makes it easier for visual people to keep track of where they are. If they are using pre-printed maps, it can spur creativity. (I've been disarmed? I grab that knife on the table and stab him) With enough knowledge, it can also be used to help your narrative thinking. ("I have room to run and 40 feet of movement. I can make a DC XX acrobatics check during my move to jump off the balcony and use my standard action to grapple that blasted kobold who has spider climbed onto the ceiling. ") It's hard for a GM to say no when you are using the rules to be awesome. :)
Thanks! And I try. Most of my PFS characters have had custom minis as well as fully fleshed out backgrounds and avatar images.
Back when I ran the Pathfinder Society module I made and printed custom maps and used the item cards and the whole deal--and even bought a slew of minis to use as the specific badguys so they looked just right. It was a big deal to me, if I was going to do a minis game I wanted it to be as immersive as possible.
EDIT: And totally by the rules, and on a map with a mini. :D
Yeah but I hear it's not actually legal unless you actually bounce your little mini over to where the chair is, then back and doink your mini off of his and in a squeaky voice say: "Aya! Take that you scoundrel".
You did do that, right?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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EDIT: And totally by the rules, and on a map with a mini. :DYeah but I hear it's not actually legal unless you actually bounce your little mini over to where the chair is, then back and doink your mini off of his and in a squeaky voice say: "Aya! Take that you scoundrel".
You did do that, right?
Given the other things your GM "taught" you, I can't actually tell if you're kidding or not.
I am...but that's hilarious...and so so very true.
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Yeah, maps and minis take some getting used to. I used to play D&D and AD&D back before that newfangled 2nd edition stuff, when D&D and AD&D were two separate games. Then I stopped playing RPGs for about 20 years and returned last year.
I don't have a problem talking in character, whether we're in combat or not. In combat, I usually describe my characters actions, but I do try to talk in my character's "voice" as much as possible. There are some people who aren't used to it, but they catch on and deal with it.
For instance, I still remember my very first PFS session. I was new to the game and threw together a barbarian just because I figured a non-spellcasting front line melee type would be easy to build and play in a new system. Everyone else went around the table introducing their characters with stuff like "I'm playing a druid named...", and I was the last one at they got to. I introduced my PC in character with "Me Mash!!! Me barbarian! Me like ta hit stuff!". The whole table cracked up laughing.
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All these points are the exact opposite of my experience.
The Map and Miniatures can take some getting used to but it does have some advantages. It can speed up combat a lot, and makes it easier for visual people to keep track of where they are. If they are using pre-printed maps, it can spur creativity. (I've been disarmed? I grab that knife on the table and stab him) With enough knowledge, it can also be used to help your narrative thinking. ("I have room to run and 40 feet of movement. I can make a DC XX acrobatics check during my move to jump off the balcony and use my standard action to grapple that blasted kobold who has spider climbed onto the ceiling. ") It's hard for a GM to say no when you are using the rules to be awesome. :)
So in your experience, maps and minis don't take any getting used to but have no advantages. It slows down combat, and makes it harder for visual people to keep track of where they are. Pre-printed maps can hinder creativity. No amount of knowledge can help your narrative thinking. It's easy for GMs to say no when you're using the rules to be awesome.
That's your experience? ;)
All these points are the exact opposite of my experience.
Yeah...kinda' mine too.
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All these points are the exact opposite of my experience.
I think that is also covered under table variation. In my experience, combat with a map is much faster than purely narrative combat. Then again, my non-pfs group has neen known to spend an entire session getting ready for a fight, then another whole session to conduct it. It's hard not to be faster.
Yeah man, all that map, all those minis...I can never tell which one is mine, so I just grab one and doink it off another one and go "Aya! Take that you scoundrel" and hope everyone just goes along with it.
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What it comes down to is that it also depends a lot on the people around the table and a lot of us come from different backgrounds. I won't get into a dissertation of the different player types, but PFS tends to bring people together that often would not be with playing with each other normal circumstances.
As a PFS GM I see it as an obligation to provide a setting where they can all meet in the middle. No, I don't always pull it off, but I try. Each player and GM brings their own background and skill level to the table and in a campaign that is staffed by volunteers, sometimes you get what you pay for. (I usually get much more, but everyone has a bad game sometime)
I can only hope that you stick with it till you can find people that match your play style better and be a good example in the meantime. From the sounds of it, I would be happy to sit at either one of your tables.
What it comes down to is that it also depends a lot on the people around the table and a lot of us come from different backgrounds. I won't get into a dissertation of the different player types, but PFS tends to bring people together that often would not be with playing with each other normal circumstances.
As a PFS GM I see it as an obligation to provide a setting where they can all meet in the middle. No, I don't always pull it off, but I try. Each player and GM brings their own background and skill level to the table and in a campaign that is staffed by volunteers, sometimes you get what you pay for. (I usually get much more, but everyone has a bad game sometime)
I can only hope that you stick with it till you can find people that match your play style better and be a good example in the meantime. From the sounds of it, I would be happy to sit at either one of your tables.
Well cool, and hopefully that happens sometime. Hey, if you ever find yourself in the East Wenatchee area I'd be happy to game with you anytime.
Sorry - I'll go back to my old guy corner now...
Nah, don't feel too bad. I'm sure there's that much difference there. While I didn't really start gaming until college, I had a copy of Red Box back before I knew much about gaming and dinked around (badly) at trying to paint some of the really weird minis they had back then. I tortured my elementary friends with sessions of "D&D-like game mixed with some Zork and the D&D cartoon cause I don't know what I'm doing".
My later experiences with narrative gaming are just what I count, because that's where I had learned how to game. The earlier stuff was just embarrassing.
I've done quite a bit of that actually--but I usually don't make the players responsible for remembering all of it (unless it gets intricate enough to require a Dungeoneering check). But yeah you'd get:
The PCs slip steathily around the corner to the left.
Then PCs just say where they want to go like "back toward the shuffling" or "back to the spikey stone door".
Temple of Chaotic Evil from Keep on the Borderlands, by the way...
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*blinks*
My only real experience with anything older than 4E was my AD&D video game called Order of the Griffon on my TurboGrafx.
And all I learned from that was:
• AD&D was about wandering around killing as many things as possible. Which made sense, because pretty much everything wanted to kill you.
• Noncombat/roleplaying meant trying to burn down the tavern and watching your elf get beaten to death by commoners in narrative text as a result, even if you're capable of killing dragons. That, and belching contests (except without the "contest" part).
• The only difference between different members of the same class is their HP. The mage or cleric who says they get more spells than the other mages or clerics is lying. The fighters all deal about the same damage and get about the same AC. And so forth.
• "Plot" means the guy who owns the dungeon has a name. There's no actual plot.
Always makes me chuckle when people talk about modern RPGs being combat focused or about the allegedly-new "video game mentality" and how the old days were different. My only window into the old days was "grab the fattest four guys you can and kill EVERYTHING". :P
East Wenatchee, WA
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Talking while there is a mini on the board is no more silly than talking when there's no mini there. Is it better to talk as a rubber ducky or an imaginary friend?
My friends and I are no more imaginary than the creatures we are facing ...
That's awesome...
My only window into the old days was "grab the fattest four guys you can and kill EVERYTHING". :P
Depends on who you were with. 2E was they heyday of settings like Planescape, Dark Sun and Spelljammer that were about anything but dungeons. Even older stuff like Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms were treated with greater maturity and were fleshed out a great deal more than they were in the early modules. It really was a move on the part of 3e designers to go back to dungeon-based gaming.
Who's Walter Sheppard? We do our game at Cave Collectible Gaming here in town, Tuesdays at 6 p.m. though--open invite.