Table with APL 5, but need a level 3 GM credit

[RainyDayNinja]

Due to poor planning on my part, I'm soon going to have a table with an APL of 5 (level range of 3-5, weighted more toward the high end, with 7 players), but the character I'm building with GM credit is at level 3. So I'm looking for a scenario I can run at the 1-7 or 3-7 tier, which will still be challenging for a mob of characters, as high as level 5. The highest-level characters are a sword-and-board fighter and a summoner, so they don't even break a sweat in slug-fests.

Right now I'm thinking "Storming the Diamond Gate." I only played it at the 6-7 subtier, but due to the nature of the final fight

Spoiler:

a high-level wizard and archers, with difficult terrain and a long path between them and the PCs

I think it could really give them a run for their money. Any other ideas?

[Macon Bacon, Esquire]

I would focus on what is best for the PCs personally. If you try and shoe-horn something in just so you can get GM credit... you might end up with a TPK or severely bored players.

[Macon Bacon, Esquire]

How do you know in advance you have 7 players?

teh guide wrote:

Conversely, if seven players show up to an event, rather than turning someone away from the campaign altogether, consider adding a seventh person to the table.
These situations should be extremely rare and should only be used as a last resort to sending someone home without the chance to play. Seven-person tables often overpower otherwise challenging adventures and limit the amount of time each player gets to shine in the given scenario, and
many players prefer not to play at all rather than play at such a large table. Check with the players to determine their preferences before running a seven-person table.

One alternative to a seven-person table is to split the group into two tables of three players, and ask one of the players to serve as Game Master for the second table, with each GM running a pregenerated character to fill her table out. Under no circumstance should a table ever have eight or more players.

[Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome]

Storming, could certainly be a good one, however, I would make sure the level 3 is ok playing in the sub-tier (and can) at that level ... The lower level is the one that has the most to lose, not the others or your GM credit baby.

I agree with Macon .. do what comes out right for the party, your GM credit baby may have to wait another scenario.

[RainyDayNinja]

I know because it's the same group every week. I'm the only person in a 75-mile radius who GMs PFS games, so we don't get a chance to mix it up very much.

And the more I think about it, the more it sounds like this is exactly what they need. They're all brand-new to Pathfinder, and they still have a very... *ahem* straightforward approach to combat. Running them through this boss fight at the 3-4 subtier would be good for introducing them to the challenges of high-level play, without totally outclassing them right out of the gate.

[Macon Bacon, Esquire]

If you put a level 3 in Storming at Tier 6-7 you will spend the entire scenario either trying not to kill them or apologizing for killing them while they sit and watch the rest of the scenario unfold.

/edit What are their exact levels?

[Jiggy]

I think he's meaning to run it at tier 3-4 and thinking that StDG would be a challenging enough scenario for a 3-4 run to be fun for an APL 5 group. Is that right?

[Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

I know because it's the same group every week. I'm the only person in a 75-mile radius who GMs PFS games, so we don't get a chance to mix it up very much.

And the more I think about it, the more it sounds like this is exactly what they need. They're all brand-new to Pathfinder, and they still have a very... *ahem* straightforward approach to combat. Running them through this boss fight at the 3-4 subtier would be good for introducing them to the challenges of high-level play, without totally outclassing them right out of the gate.

All I'm going to say about that boss fight is this ... I'm the GM that NEVER,,, I mean NEVER kills a PC ... I killed a PC in that fight ... so be uber careful with that level 3 ...

I'm wondering if there might not be a more approprite scenario to include the level three in that would also work for your GM credit baby.

[Jiggy]

You could try Perils of the Pirate Pact at 6-7. Not exactly super-difficult, it's a fun/straightforward romp, and has a 3-4 for your GM credit baby.

[RainyDayNinja]

Jiggy wrote:

I think he's meaning to run it at tier 3-4 and thinking that StDG would be a challenging enough scenario for a 3-4 run to be fun for an APL 5 group. Is that right?

Yeah, exactly.

PFCBG wrote:

All I'm going to say about that boss fight is this ... I'm the GM that NEVER,,, I mean NEVER kills a PC ... I killed a PC in that fight ... so be uber careful with that level 3 ...

Luckily, the highest-level players are also the most logical targets in-character: the fighter and the summoner/eidolon. So I'm not too worried about that.

Jiggy wrote:

You could try Perils of the Pirate Pact at 6-7. Not exactly super-difficult, it's a fun/straightforward romp, and has a 3-4 for your GM credit baby.

I'd rather run them through an extra-difficult 3-4 than an extra-easy 6-7. They're spoiled enough with playing up already...

[Sniggevert]

Have you done In Wrath's Shadow or Sanos Abduction? Both are season 4, so already assuming a 6 person table. Both final fights should still be memorable IMO.

[RainyDayNinja]

I've actually played both of those in the 6-7 subtier, and neither seemed that challenging. We were even playing up for the Sanos Abduction.

[CRobledo]

I was going to say. Wrath's shadow at 3-4 should still challenge an APL 5 party.

[Jiggy]

Oh, I know! Run Rescue at Azlant Ridge and "forget" to include the giant robot!

;)

[RainyDayNinja]

Maybe my experience with In Wrath's Shadow was atypical. We got a fireball off in the surprise round with the boss, which killed all his minions. Then my monk was able to trip him to get his AC down to manageable levels. And we skipped the optional encounter.

[Macon Bacon, Esquire]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

I've actually played both of those in the 6-7 subtier, and neither seemed that challenging. We were even playing up for the Sanos Abduction.

Wow! That's pretty impressive. Sounds like your party should have no problems playing Tier 6-7 of Storming then. Go for it.

[Sniggevert]

The big bad and company in Sanos should have had a great chance to tear a hole in a group playing up. The lead up fights weren't all that hard, but the last one can be a killer with a LOT of damage potential and high to hit mods.

I've only run it once and it came really close to a TPK at 6-7.

Wrath's wasn't as big of a challenge to the group I ran through it, but again, the final boss, if given the chance to buff, can be brutal.

[kinevon]

You could also consider 2-21 The Dalsine Affair. Even at 3-4, it can be ugly in that final encounter.

And definitely will be a learning experience for a group of straightforward players, even if they blast through that final fight.

[Coraith]

I think you should look to recruit 2 more players, and convert someone into a GM so you can have two tables running at once so people can have some variety and not steamroll through scenarios w/ 7 people.

When running a scenario in seasons 0-3 the difficulty tier is designed for 4 people with level appropriate gear and decently built. With 7 people they are of course going to have a much easier time and not need to develop tactics other than zerg zerg zerg.

[RainyDayNinja]

Oh believe me, I would like to have more GMs. I've asked, but none of them are the least bit interested (plus, 3 of them are kids). Maybe when the local VC comes down this weekend, he can convince one of them to give it a shot, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Coraith]

I would approach them from this angle. Figure out who the most rules knowledgeable person is other than you and approach them from the position that you would like a day off from GMing and just sit down and play. This will make it feel like you are asking them for a solid. Congratulate them more then just the "Thanks for letting me have a night off!" Tell them that they have a real flair for it, getting people to GM is less about pushing them into it and more about getting them to take the steps themselves. Usually using trickery... lol.

[Caepio Alazario]

I second what Coraith suggested.

Being the only GM and being expected to GM everything is a recipe for burnout, especially if you're hosting games and/or buying the scenarios. Give yourself a break and enjoy a chance to see the other side of the GM screen.

[Jiggy]

If all else fails, bribe with pizza.

[Coraith]

Lots of Pizza... possibly beer.

[RainyDayNinja]

Hey, I brought them M&Ms once (to track Defense Points in Quest for Perfection III), and the 8-year-old didn't like them. You can't reason with people like that!