This archetype is for my Homebrew Setting. It is based on the Sappers & Pioneer soldiers of Medieval & Renaissance Europe.
It seems incomplete Azaelas?!? Admittedly viewing in smartphone, but it has a sentence end mid-sentence and another swap is "TBD".
[EDIT - okay, sentence found. But what is TBD?]
Yeah I updated most of them.
If you read up top it says WIP.
TBD=To Be Determined (Read: I am working from memory until I find the paper I wrote it all down on.)
You probably loaded it as I was writing the incomplete sentence.
I would delay Throw Anything. The alchemist is front loaded enough as is, and I wouldn't extend the courtesy to the rogue as well. Maybe it could be a rogue talent?
Found some of the Pages! Edited Throw Anything.
Currently needing something for a new Capstone ability.
Update: Added in the changes to the Capstone.
Some players Playtested this Archetype without the Capstone (it was in Kingmaker). So far it seems to be Balanced.
It has some odd synergy with the Trapsmith Archetype. Especially thematically.
Any thought or suggestions?
Looks good.
I'll take a closer look later.
Looks good.
I'll take a closer look later.
Please do!
Seems that you delayed the throw anything bonus feat, but left it as replacing your 2nd level rogue talent. Shouldn't it replace the 4th level rogue talent if you get it at 4th level?
Actually you can thank my internet going down for that... it went down as it was saving it will be fixed soon.
EDIT: It should be fixed now.
So I have to ask, why pioneer?
Pioneers where the name for Sappers when they weren't Sapping.
Odd I know.
Pioneers were the Medieval/Renaissance version of Combat Engineers. Hence Why most modern Combat Engineers are called pioneer teams.
Their job was to move ahead and take care of any obstacles in the armies way. Usually with some form of explosive. Especially during the Renaissance.
They would arrive at an enemy fortress or castle a few days to a week ahead of the main army and would sneak around and weaken the walls and even prep the walls to where they could plant say a keg of powder to be detonated in battle.
They made the Seige Engines' job easier.
Strangely, the Rogue is the best fit. After all sometimes they could get the enemy to detonate the kegs themselves via burning oil. Though they required excellent reflexes (Evasion). This originally was an Expanded Trapsmith Archetype. By decoupleing it from Trapsmith I gave it a bit more flexibility and the ability to fulfill the multitude of variants of the Sapper/Pioneer throughout history. In fact it stacks with most of the Rogue Archetypes. And I think all Archetypes in the Pathfinder Core Ruleset.
I also love history and read the Sapper/Pioneer description in a Medieval Tactics Book and wanted the option to play that style of character. Sadly the Ruleset requires GM fiat for the main ability of the Sapper/Pioneer.
TL;DR: I am a history nerd and wanted something to represent the historical Sapper/Pioneer from History.
I will be adding Fluff later today. Probably in the Afternoon Central US Time.
A nice option. Very specialised and niche, but I like it nonetheless...
So in order to make this a pioneer archetype and not just a mad bomber, swapping out a few class skills may be in order. They could benefit from Kn. Engineering, and Survival might fit as well. I don't know what would be appropriate to give up.
I am thinking dropping Knowledge(Dungeoneering) & Knowledge(Local) in favor of those skills.
Necro-Post Ahoy!
I am splitting the Sapper into an Alchemist Archetype any thoughts on how to do this?
I don't see the pioneer aspects of it. What's left if the bomb stuff goes to the alchemist? Actually wait, the alchemist has all that stuff already.
So what would the Sapper alchemist do? What would the Pioneer do?
Here're the issues with it right now:
The saboteur does something to get around the first issue. The Bore Bomb ability actually is a bit worse early on than regular bombs, but later on it'll be really nice. At 5th level you'll start to hurt stone, whereas regular bomb damage hasn't broken through stone's hardness. The Bore Bomb also just does straight damage, not energy damage, so it's not halved. The ability isn't actually clear, so don't take it word for word. But the ability to deal with that halves-if-energy-attack would work well. Straight up removing it probably isn't too smart.
The Pioneer will be made into a Bomber Infantry style Archetype. The Sapper will be the Anti-Fortification Archetype.
Ahh OK. I developed a sapper type one for someone, wonder if I still have it around here to see how we dealt with it...
I like the Saboteur but it feels more like something out of a Fantasy Spy Movie while I want something that goes more for the explosion that destroyed the Deeping Wall.
Ah hah! It was on d20pfsrd.com. Apparently that's what the designer came up with for using bombs against structures.
Interesting but seems a bit odd to use.
Though a Remote Detonation and such would be nice as discoveries.
Wow, your doc really shrank. You had some good bomb ideas in there before. Maybe you could recycle some of those into tricks/discoveries?
They are being recycled. I just am currently Playtesting the new Alchemist(Sapper) and some of the new discoveries.
So far the Alchemist has an ability to plant a bomb that can be set to delay and deals max damage to the object it is planted on. It deals normal splash damage in a sphere around the location.
The delay is limited to INT Modifier. I made the effect deal plain Bludgeoning damage and a Discovery that the Sapper gets for free.
The Sapper is designed to stack with the Grenadier and a few other Archetypes. Unfortunately, I ended up removing the Mutagen & Persistant Mutagen abilities.
Ironically, them not having the Mutagen and being Niche has lead to the Alchemist to be picked more. I have a party of 3 Pioneers all going different styles of builds alongside 3 Sappers all going different routes as well. One of which picked up the Discoveries for the Mutagen & Cognatogen.
Let us know how it turns out. My gut instinct would be to steer this rogue class away from mutagens, infusions, etc and keep the alchemy limited to bombs and craft (alchemy), mostly for flavor purposes. More science, less sci-fi.
The Rogue will stay as is. Currently they can only take Bomb-Based Discoveries as Rogue Talents.
The Alchemist is trading the Mutagen and its connected features for free discoveries and the ability to negate some pre-requisites on some Bomb Discoveries.
Ah I see. I misunderstood.
Rogue will have the Pioneer while Alchemist will have the Sapper.
What about remote detonation bombs? Are we getting into crafting magic item at that point? With the rogue's talent for stealth, bluff, disguise, etc you could make a terrorist/freedom fighter type villain.
The Pioneer could get access to the discoveries but not for free like the Sapper.
Remote Detonation is actually the Free Discovery that replaces Persistent Mutagen.
Though I am trying to figure out if I am missing a "Delayed Bombs" Discovery somewhere.
Delayed Bomb is an APG discovery, while remote bomb is a UM feat. Not sure if that helps...
Ok then that makes this archetype a bit off. So I can now give those to the Alchemist. Alongside the Shaped Charge Bomb Discovery they get in place of Mutagen. I can trade Persistent Mutagen for them to be able to delay the Bomb for Hours instead of Minutes.
Oooo... I am getting all kinds of ideas. And the Archetype looks a lot different...
Here's a version of a sapper I made a while back. It still needs to be playtested and possibly re-formated for proper archetypeiness.
SAPPER
BAB: +¾
Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d8
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (engineering), Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Perception, Profession, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Use Magic Device.
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.
Sappers are proficient with all simple weapons, bombs, heavy pick, light pick, throwing hammer, war hammer. Sappers are proficient in light armor.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Explosive Alchemy, bomb 1d6, demolitions, sapper weapons, throw anything
2. Discovery, set fuse (rounds)
3. Bomb 2d6, swift alchemy
4. Discovery
5. Bomb 3d6, set fuse (minutes)
6. Discovery
7. Bomb 4d6, advanced fuse setting
8. Discovery, set fuse (hours)
9. Bomb 5d6
10. Discovery, set fuse (days)
11. Bomb 6d6
12. Discovery
13. Bomb 7d6
14. Discovery, greater demolitions
15. Bomb 8d6
16. Discovery
17. Bomb 9d6
18. Discovery, instant alchemy
19. Bomb 10d6
20. Grand Discovery
Explosive Alchemy (Su): Sappers are not only masters of creating mundane alchemical substances such as alchemist’s fire and smokesticks, but also of fashioning explosives in which they can store spell effects. In effect, a sapper prepares his spells by mixing ingredients into a number of explosives, and then “casts” his spells by detonating the explosives. When a sapper creates an explosive or bomb, he infuses the concoction with a tiny fraction of his own magical power—this enables the creation of powerful effects, but also binds the effects to the creator. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, a sapper gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the Craft (alchemy) check. In addition, a sapper can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to make such a check.
A sapper can create two special types of magical items—explosives and bombs.
Explosives are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in wondrous device form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the sapper’s level as the caster level.
A sapper can create only a certain number of explosives of each level per day. His base daily allotment of extracts is given on Table: Alchemist. In addition, he receives bonus explosives per day if he has a high Intelligence score, in the same way a wizard receives bonus spells per day. When a sapper mixes an explosive, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the explosive with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. An explosive immediately becomes inert if it leaves the sapper’s possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—a sapper cannot normally pass out his explosives for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below). An explosive, once created, remains potent for 1 day before becoming inert, so a sapper must re-prepare his explosives every day. Mixing an explosive takes 1 minute of work—most sappers prepare many explosives at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it’s not uncommon for a sapper to keep some (or even all) of his daily explosive slots open so that he can prepare explosives in the field as needed.
Although the sapper doesn’t actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what explosives he can create. A sapper can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so). An explosive is “cast” by detonating it—the effects of an explosive exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always results in a loud explosion with a Perception DC of -20; the sapper can make a Spellcraft check with a DC of 20 + double the level of the explosive to reduce the DC Perception check; the DC of the Perception check is reduced by 1 for every 1 point the sapper exceeds the Spellcraft check. The sapper uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level. Creating explosives consumes raw materials, but the cost of these materials is insignificant—comparable to the valueless material components of most spells. If a spell normally has a costly material component, that component is expended during the consumption of that particular explosive. Explosives cannot be made from spells that have focus requirements (sapper explosives that duplicate divine spells never have a divine focus requirement). A sapper can prepare an explosive of any formula he knows. To learn or use an explosive, a sapper must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the explosive’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sapper’s extract is 10 + the explosive level + the sapper’s Intelligence modifier. A sapper may know any number of formulae. He stores his formulae in a special tome called a formula book. He must refer to this book whenever he prepares an explosive but not when he detonates it. A sapper begins play with two 1st level formulae of his choice, plus a number of additional formulae equal to his Intelligence modifier. At each new sapper level, he gains one new formula of any level that he can create. A sapper can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs and time requirements. A sapper can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. A sapper does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them.
Explosive Alchemy replaces the standard alchemist’s alchemy ability.
Demolitions (Ex): The sapper ignores 1 point of hardness per level when using a bomb to damage an item. The sapper ignores 1 point of damage reduction or energy reduction per level when targeting a construct with a bomb.
Demolitions replaces the standard alchemist’s mutagen ability.
Sapper Weapons (Ex): Sappers are proficient in heavy picks, light picks, throwing hammers, and war hammers. When these weapons are used to damage items or make a sunder attempt, the sapper ignores 1 point of hardness per level. The sapper ignores 1 point of damage reduction per level when targeting a construct with these weapons.
Sapper Weapons replaces the standard alchemist’s brew potion ability.
Discoveries: At 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the sapper learns 1 discovery from the list of discoveries that alchemists can select from. The sapper may only select discoveries that apply to bombs. The sapper may not select the delayed bomb discovery as the set fuse ability replaces it.
This ability replaces the standard alchemist’s discoveries ability.
Set Fuse (Ex): At 2nd level, sapper can place a bomb so that it explodes a number of rounds after the sapper ceases contact with the bomb. This delay can be any number of rounds as chosen by the sapper, up to a number of rounds equal to his level + his Intelligence modifier. If at any point the sapper reclaims possession of the delayed bomb, he can end the timer and prevent the bomb’s detonation. A delayed bomb detonates immediately if any other creature attempts to touch or move it, or if the bomb’s contents are removed from the vial (such as if the vial breaks). The bomb deals damage as if it scored a direct hit to any creature in the square with the bomb when it detonates, and splash damage (see Throw Splash Weapon) to all adjacent creatures as normal. A sapper cannot have more than one delayed bomb at one time. If he creates another delayed bomb, the previous bomb becomes inert. Dispel magic can neutralize a delayed bomb, as can a successful Disable Device check (DC equals 10 + the sapper’s level + the sapper’s Intelligence modifier).
At 5th level, the delay can be any number of minutes as chosen by the sapper, up to a number of minutes equal to his level + his Intelligence modifier.
At 8th level, the delay can be any number of hours as chosen by the sapper, up to a number of hours equal to his level + his Intelligence modifier.
At 10th level, the delay can be any number of minutes as chosen by the sapper, up to a number of minutes equal to his level + his Intelligence modifier.
Set Fuse replaces the standard alchemist’s poison use, poison resistance, and poison immunity abilities.
Advanced Fuse Setting (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, the sapper can set a number of fuses equal to his Intelligence modifier at the same time. If the sapper sets a number of fuses in excess to his Intelligence modifier, the delayed bombs set first become inert.
Advanced Fuse Setting replaces the standard alchemist’s swift poisoning ability.
Greater Demolitions (Ex): Beginning at 14th level, the sapper can spend 1 minute to place a specially prepared bomb to damage an object. The specially prepared bomb’s damage causes double damage to the object.
Greater Demolitions replaces the standard alchemist’s greater mutagen ability.
Awakened Intellect: The sapper’s constant exposure to strange chemicals has expanded his mind. His Intelligence score permanently increases by 2 points.
Bombardier: The sapper’s bomb damage increases from 10d6 to 10d10 points of damage. The save DC of the sapper’s bombs increases to 25 + his Intelligence modifier.
Bombing Run: The sapper can use his bomb ability as a swift action. The sapper gains Shot on the Run as a bonus feat when using a bomb, even if he does not otherwise meet the requirements for the feat.
Energy Immunity: The sapper selects one of the following energy types: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic: The sapper is immune to the selected energy type.
Ignitable Blood: The sapper’s constant exposure to explosive chemicals have infected his blood. He causes 1d6 + 20 points of fire damage to any creature that injures him with a natural weapon, unarmed strike, or non-reach melee weapon.
Wildfire: Creature’s subjected to the splash damage of a bomb the sapper throws must succeed on a Reflex save or take full damage from the sapper’s bomb. Creatures adjacent to the creatures that fail the Reflex save must also make a Reflex save or take full damage. This bomb’s fire spreads in this way until either all adjacent creatures make their saving throw or there are no more adjacent creatures. A single creature can only be targeted by the sapper’s bomb once.
1. Break, Burning Disarm, Burning Hands, Chill Touch, Color Spray, Corrosive Touch, Damp Powder, Ear Piercing Scream, Enlarge Person, Entangle, Erase, Expeditious Excavation, Hold Portal, Hydraulic Push, Inflict Light Wounds, Produce Fire, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Sickening, Reduce Person, Shocking Grasp, Snapdragon Fireworks, Stone Fist, Stumble Gap, Touch of Fatigue, Touch of Gracelessness, Weaken Powder.
2. Acid Arrow, Admonishing Ray, Arcane Lock, Blindness/Deafness, Create Pit, Darkness, Daze Monster, Dust of Twilight, Elemental Touch, Fiery Shuriken, Flaming Sphere, Fog Cloud, Frigid Touch, Ghoul Touch, Glitterdust, Gust of Wind, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Knock, Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Soundburst, Spontaneous Immolation, Stone Call, Touch of Idiocy, Web
3. Daylight, Deeper Darkness, Dispel Magic, Distracting Cacophony, Explosive Runes, Fireball, Force Punch, Halt Undead, Hold Person, Hydraulic Torrent, Inflict Serious Wounds, Lightning Bolt, Pellet Blast, Ray of Exhaustion, Sleet Storm, Slow, Spike Growth, Spiked Pit, Stinking Cloud, Vampiric Touch, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice
4. Acid Pit, Black Tentacles, Confusion, Cone of Cold, Crushing Despair, Mass Daze, Flame Strike, Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass Inflict Light Wounds, Passwall, Resilient Sphere, Solid Fog, Spike Stones, Touch of Slime, Wall of Force, Wall of Stone
5. Acid Fog, Anti-Magic Field, Chain Lightning, Circle of Death, Delayed Blast Fireball, Disintegrate, Freezing Sphere, Harm, Hungry Pit, Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds, Sirocco, Tar Pool, Wall of Iron, Wall of Thorns
6. Banishment, Caustic Eruption, Earthquake, Force Cage, Horrid Wilting, Incendiary Cloud, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds, Polar Ray, Prismatic Spray, Rampart, Reverse Gravity, Greater Shout, Stormbolts, Sunburst, Telekinetic Sphere, Wall of Lava, Waves of Exhaustion.