It's kinda weird, Cool bad guys (More Maidens, and evil clerics are always good) but all in all Im just not diggin the story line.
Maybe it's due to my utter apathy for RotRL and this is too much of s sequel?
I'm just not feeling the compelling adventure, I also despise the pathfinder society concept which could be ruining it for me too?
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Can only speak for myself but I'm currently running this adventure and having a blast. Admitadly I did modify things slightly by having a second group after the shards which I find helps link all the books together more. As for the society I actually find them a lot more likable in this than in say Seeker of secrets (Admitadly it depends on what part of the society concept you despice.)
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The part of the society i despise, it's existence, more specifically the fact it removes the whole PC composed adventuring venture, planning and financing your own expeditions, now you just have a narrator "Now do this" come back "now do this"
What group did you add looking for the shards too?
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I am not running this (yet) but so far this AP presented me some of the most awesome dungeon adventures I have ever read, so far parts 2 and 4 are the best I think but part 1 is fine and part 3 is very good (just not digging the Black Forest, it seems kind of random to me).
every adventure on it's own is great. Not sure how good this works as an AP though.
I think the parts that bother you can easily be swapped out. ignoring the Pathfinder Society is all too easy and you cant make the "runelords" theme as significant as you like (which in your case is near zero).
Yea I agree, the individual adventures are cool enough. The story arc I think is what's loosing me. Just doesn't seem cohesive, why are the heroes collecting the shards again. Maybe this was lost on me
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This, like runelords is getting a bit rough. Primary reason being no interconnectivity between the modules. They are too self contained. I am trying to fix this by putting in an adversary group also seeking the shards. They managed to steal the shard of pride from the PCs, so they will be able to hound them throughout the AP.
I do miss strong story APs like CotCT and even SD. Hopefully wrath of the righteous ( next one I am DMing) wont feel so much like individual modules strung loosely together.
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I can see what you're getting at, Pendagast, but that lack of connectivity doesn't really bother me when I'm reading it. The focus of this AP was on having awesome dungeons, and on that I think it's succeeded wildly.
I think you're right that a more compelling overall story might improve things. I've had the same problem in Carrion Crown, as have many other GMs on the boards. Our solution has been to improve the overall storyline ourselves, especially by bringing in the final BBEG very early on and keeping him coming back throughout the AP.
Maybe there's a good solution like that for Shattered Star, or maybe such a solution will emerge in the last couple chapters. I'm happy to wait and see, and start thinking of ways to spice it up if I ever get to run it. In the meantime, I'm just enjoying the fabulous dungeons.
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As long as you tell your players up front: "This is going to be an artifact hunt where you search for pieces of the rod of seven pa...I mean, the Sihedron. It's going to be a romp through several dungeons, with several neat RP opportunities and surprises, but no real uber-meta-plot a'la CotCT or JR." and you get positive vibes it should be all right. Not every AP must be hyper metaplot intrigue 5th season of Buffy kinda type.
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well agreed, I'm not saying "this AP sucks" , Im just bored by the story line. Of course I haven't gotten all of them yet.
I do like them as individual modules, not saying the dungeon crawls arent cool.
I still think I'd like to see an AP all written by the same guy, choppiness and lack of continuity are commonly caused by this tag team author thing going on.
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Can only speak for myself but I'm currently running this adventure and having a blast. Admitadly I did modify things slightly by having a second group after the shards which I find helps link all the books together more. As for the society I actually find them a lot more likable in this than in say Seeker of secrets (Admitadly it depends on what part of the society concept you despice.)
Doing the same, with multiple rival factions(some friendly, some outright hostile, some wavering back and forth). Also aiming to tie everything together not just with the heroic goal of securing a Runelord Rise Deterrant but with some player buy-in themes involving discovering and coming to terms with the true history of Varisia and what it means for its cultures(and where they go from there).
I'm hoping to make it just as plotrich as Crimson Throne, but with a bit more of a relaxed timetable so that the players feel more comfortable setting their own pace and crafting their own story.
I've always liked the collect the X pieces of Y treasure stories. Be it Pirates of Dark Water or Final Fantasy's (the first one) Orbs of the Elements. The reasoning for doing so falls strictly on the players' own motivations. Power, Glory, Altruism, Curiosity, Greed, etc. If the characters lack any motivation to find the shards they shouldn't be in the adventure to begin with. Point being, its the player's job here to find their own character's motivation to be doing this. However, Gorbacz is right with the lack of metaplot.
As for the Pathfinder Society (who I hate as a whole) they are so minimalist they might as well not exist and can be anything from a noble patron, to the party themselves with little modification. Since the shards work on an ouroboros link its not like the party needs anyone to tell them where to go or what to do.
That aside, if you can't get into the story, you can't get into the story.
I think the authors didnt do the rival factions thing because they already did it serpent's skull and that wasnt a very successful AP.
I'd prefer to remove factions altogether, including the pathfinders. I don't even have them at all in my world. I have Aspis consortium, Darklight Sisterhood and Esoteric Order of the Palentine eye, but they more exist as backround and such, I prefer the PC's to model their own enterprises as adventuring companies and not have the "Donald Trump of Adventuring Companies"
I like the rogue maidens and their story, I'm just missing the motivation in the AP I guess, Maybe ill read it again all the way through once I have them all.
Im really hoping for more more more when the babba yaga AP comes out.
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I know what you mean about it being a little light on motivation. But since the PCs are intended to be agents of the Pathfinder Society they shouldn't really need any incentive. This is what they do. Delve into dungeons, explore, find artifacts, uncover ancient secrets. No more motivation really should be necessary. Having said that, I didn't think all my players would buy the aims of the campaign or why a handful of low level agents/new recruits had been given the task, so I threw in a bunch more motivations.
I had Sheila suspect a spy for the Aspis Consortium in the lodge or one of her regular Pathfinder agents feeding them information, so she couldn't trust anyone but noobs with this big a task. Motivations range from protecting Magnimar and Varisia against threats from within and without (Nidal, more Runelords etc.) to personal wealth and glory, not to mention the furtherance of knowledge of ancient Thassilon held by the Pathfinder Society (and the greater academic world).
PS - Definitely not bored, no. I'm loving this AP!
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A big part of what can make or break this campaign for players that don't want to just play a dungeon crawl is how the GM runs and presents it. There is a lot of material to work with for those groups that want something more out of it, but if one runs it by-the-numbers they're really going to sell it short of what it can be.
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I'm playing in this AP and having a blast. We're probably a bit more than half–way through the first book. I can see where it could drag a bit, but we have a great group and an awesome GM. There's lots of inter–party roleplay, even in the middle of a dungeon.
Like so many things, there are a lot of variables that can make or break a campaign. I'm just glad the stars aligned for our group this time.
ahahah! seriously?! a blind oracle with an xbow?! has the rogue tried to lift it off you for safety concerns?
I kind of thought the same thing when I cracked "Shards Of Sin". Figured the motivation was low, there wasn't a ton of RP/plot building, and it felt like a hurl into a pretty serious dungeon crawl (which is not necessarily a bad thing).
Just starting poking through "Curse Of The Lady's Light" last night though, and I'm very impressed. It's definitely a change of pace and a pretty refreshing adventure all around. Seems it will be worth the possible slog for some people through the first installment. :)
All I'll have to do is tell my players that this is an AP that delves further into ancient Thassilonian history. We're about half-way through the third book of RotR, and they're loving the AP a great deal because they've taken an instant fanaticism to Thassalonian lore. Telling them that they'd be treasure hunters seeking fortune and glory with discovery of an ancient relic from Thassilon would spark their imagination something fierce!
Of course, I also plan to turn this into a slow progression AP and run a ton of the PFS scenarios within it, as well (not to mention some of my own little ideas).
yea that was the huge attraction to the Serpent's Skull AP for my group, at least in the beginning. then it turned out to be not that. (Well Azlanti lore, at least)
Loving the third book so far cept for one thing.
I would say the group as a whole is enjoying the game but this also hast to deal with interesting party RP which can make the most mediocre adventure quite entertaining.
Doing the same, with multiple rival factions(some friendly, some outright hostile, some wavering back and forth). Also aiming to tie everything together not just with the heroic goal of securing a Runelord Rise Deterrant but with some player buy-in themes involving discovering and coming to terms with the true history of Varisia and what it means for its cultures(and where they go from there).
I'm hoping to make it just as plotrich as Crimson Throne, but with a bit more of a relaxed timetable so that the players feel more comfortable setting their own pace and crafting their own story.
You should do a campaign journal ( and write that last part for CotCT... we wanna know what happened with your group and Laori. :D ).
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Loving the third book so far cept for one thing. ** spoiler omitted **
Ah aha. Good fun
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You should do a campaign journal ( and write that last part for CotCT... we wanna know what happened with your group and Laori. :D ).
O DAMMAT. Sorry, I really do need to finish that thread, gah... I've got some homebrew stuff related to it that I've been holding onto for the end of that thing too.
About the Shattered Star journal, I actually talked to two of the folks that are going to be playing in one of the ShSt(okay, that abbreviation does not work) games I'll be running about that idea. We can't guarantee anything, but there are some ideas they seem eager to give a shot as far as chronicling goes. Whichever way that goes, I'll definitely be sharing the changes and additions I'm making to the AP for our groups as I go along once it's completely out. I've already got some themes/plotlines/additional NPCs planned, but none of it is locked in yet, and could always change during actual play.
You should do a campaign journal ( and write that last part for CotCT... we wanna know what happened with your group and Laori. :D ).O DAMMAT. Sorry, I really do need to finish that thread, gah... I've got some homebrew stuff related to it that I've been holding onto for the end of that thing too.
About the Shattered Star journal, I actually talked to two of the folks that are going to be playing in one of the ShSt(okay, that abbreviation does not work) games I'll be running about that idea. We can't guarantee anything, but there are some ideas they seem eager to give a shot as far as chronicling goes. Whichever way that goes, I'll definitely be sharing the changes and additions I'm making to the AP for our groups as I go along once it's completely out. I've already got some themes/plotlines/additional NPCs planned, but none of it is locked in yet, and could always change during actual play.
I'd love to see that. All of it. :D
Hhhmmm.....Once our group finishes Carrion Crown, the current DM is handing the reigns over to me to run Shattered Star.
Needless to say some of the comments here have me a bit worried....
So aside from looking at a "rival group"....what other suggestions would you make to keep the players interested ???
I wasn't very keen on this AP but I picked up the first vol from the gaming store for something to read. I was pleasantly surprised. Since I've picked up the next 2 parts and neither have dissapointed (haven't finished reading Asylum Stone).
I think this AP would be a lot of fun to run for the right group. My main areas I'd point out:
1. As another thread pointed out this AP runs on full cylinders if the DM and the group push the diplomacy aspect of the adventures. Sure you can kill everything in each room but there's a lot of creativity in how you interact with the various factions and critters.
2. The pathfinder society can easily be changed to any patron that might have an interest in arcane history/artifacts. It could even be just an ex-adventurer with a few old contacts.
3. A rival group is sorely lacking. This campaign really calls out for one. I really liked the rival Chelaxian group from Entombed with the Pharoahs. With a little work they could be plugged in and the Chelaxian connection opens up all kinds of possibilities...
4. As with any campaign work with the players to find an engaging motivation and hook it up tot he campaign. That said robbing tombs, unearthing secrets should get most players on board.
5. It is a dungeon AP maybe your group would rather be pirates or go to the orient. Know your group.
Creative Director
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Chances that I'm setting the recovery and reforging of the Sihedron up for something big I've got planned at some point in the distant future are pretty close to 100%. Just so folks know. There's a lot more story to tell in the Runelord/Thassilon/Varisia saga.
Hhhmmm.....Once our group finishes Carrion Crown, the current DM is handing the reigns over to me to run Shattered Star.
Needless to say some of the comments here have me a bit worried....
So aside from looking at a "rival group"....what other suggestions would you make to keep the players interested ???
erm, I didnt mean to bash the whole AP or say don't run it.
I was just stating how I thought maybe I was missing something.
I havent actually PLAYED in this, so the feel could be different, We are in CotCT right now, and I'm raiding this AP for some really good information on stuff that has been more fleshed out.
However, for example, Souls for Smugglers Shiv "read" as pretty lame, but "played" out as the best module in the AP (IMO).
So the intent of the thread is to maybe collect some other opinions, rather than say "worst AP ever"
Personally, I would really shy away from the Rival faction thing. That was done to death with Serpents Skull, I'm sure they avoided that on purpose, lest it rear it's ugly head in every AP.
I read in another thread that James was saying how this is old schooly dungeons crawly nostalgic goodness, and I am always cooing for the days of the 50 feet of rope, 10' pole adventurers, so maybe this will play awesome.
I love cursed magic items, which the shards seem to be, I'm just not getting the 'point' of going out to get them all other than being told to do so by the Pathfinders, which I KNOW I wont use, because I hate the whole Idea.
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Chances that I'm setting the recovery and reforging of the Sihedron up for something big I've got planned at some point in the distant future are pretty close to 100%. Just so folks know. There's a lot more story to tell in the Runelord/Thassilon/Varisia saga.
Now, that's very cool. Still dosen't help to increase PC motivation in the AP unfourtnatley.
However I believe motivation should not be a problem - just make sure to talk ahead with the players and have them create chracters who will care about assembling all the pieces of an ancient artifact, and BAM!
problem solved.
Now, player motivation is something else. If the players don't think dungeon crawling for an artifact is fun... plenty of other APs floating around, nearly all of them excelent. No reason to force this one down your party's throat.
It's not the dungeon crawling that's boring.
Take Temple of elemental evil for example, classic dungeon (seemingly endless dungeon)
Nearly no out ward motivation or well written story/plot. Strange things afoot o'er yander.
Let's check it out scoody! Rall Right Raggy! And we're off.
It's just that it isn't a scavenger hunt from one mini dungeon to the next.
The scraps and the clues and the trotting around is where it looses everything I think. (coupled with the "report back to the pope for further guidance, van helsing)
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Just wanna point out Pendagast that the AP you are running now (CotCT) is lauded as having the best a d most well developed story arc of all the APs and any AP compared to it directly will seem weak. Jade Regent is really the only other one that comes close for keeping the party as focused and together.
Not sure why Paizo does not do more like that, but I have an inkling WotR will be a strong story-based AP.
@robin
kingmaker
Just wanna point out Pendagast that the AP you are running now (CotCT) is lauded as having the best a d most well developed story arc of all the APs and any AP compared to it directly will seem weak. Jade Regent is really the only other one that comes close for keeping the party as focused and together.
Not sure why Paizo does not do more like that, but I have an inkling WotR will be a strong story-based AP.
Coridan,
I've played in and Dmd many APs (second darkness all the way through Serpents Skull, skipped skulls and shackles and Jade Regent, wasn't interested, and have browsed rise of the rune lords and decided to pass.
So we have done several APs to say the least (we are really looking forward to Reign of Winter!!)
so I'm not just comparing S* to CotCT, In fact, don't like the first book of CotCT at all, and am changing a good piece of the story line to boot.
The thing that bugs me about this AP is the scavenger hunt/being ordered around by the society thing. Has too much of a "Librarian Quest for the Spear" feel to it. Too Hoakie, Pc's don't plan anything out, Very MMORPG ish.... Diablo comes to mind.
"turn in your too hickie to get the next leg!"
Woopie I leveled again! yay!
meh
The previous AP left me cold, but so far I'm liking this one.
no likely da pirates?
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Chances that I'm setting the recovery and reforging of the Sihedron up for something big I've got planned at some point in the distant future are pretty close to 100%. Just so folks know. There's a lot more story to tell in the Runelord/Thassilon/Varisia saga.Now, that's very cool. Still dosen't help to increase PC motivation in the AP unfourtnatley.
However I believe motivation should not be a problem - just make sure to talk ahead with the players and have them create chracters who will care about assembling all the pieces of an ancient artifact, and BAM!
problem solved.Now, player motivation is something else. If the players don't think dungeon crawling for an artifact is fun... plenty of other APs floating around, nearly all of them excelent. No reason to force this one down your party's throat.
Your players should know about the nature of the adventure path before they start.
For Skull & Shackles, for example, that means they should be motivated by a desire to become powerful pirates. If they don't want that, it's gonna be hard to motivate them in that AP.
For Shattered Star, it's back to basics. The PCs should be motivated in large part to go on these adventures simply because they want to go on an adventure. At the very least, they should be so motivated because they're Pathfinders eager to have adventures that they can then some day record and become famous for having gone on.
Shattered Star is in one regard somewhat experimental—it DOESN'T have a "timer" or a big bad end guy or plot that must be defeated by the end. That's something we've pretty much done in every Adventure Path, and there's been some requests by folks to do an AP where that's not the case. Shattered Star is the response.