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sounds like your other players are being rather jerkish.
you should remind them that Good Is Not Nice, and Lawful Isn't Always Fair. provided you're not breaking the law without very good reason, properly atoning regularly if your party members are evil, and work towards what is good and right (these are malleable due to your character's values of what is 'good' and 'right', as well as your diety and upbringing), anything is fair game.
being a drow shouldn't have anything to do with it--you were raised by elves. in personality and mannerisms, you are simply an elf with darker skin and lighter hair.
you could very well be a drunkard and a womanizer and it wouldnt matter in the slightest as long as when the call goes out you're there on the front as a bastion against evil.
A multi-classed fallen paladin is never going to be 'optimal'. Whether you can get away with it depends on your stats. Have you got a high enough strength to be a good melee character? A high enough charisma that you could use as a spellcaster?
Maybe a bard?
Alternatively, set out to die heroically like a true paladin, then make a new character.
Consider leveling up in sorcerer then take eldritch knight.... that way if u do fall u have a decent fall back plan lol
What do you like about being a paladin? What don't you like (besides other people telling you how to play one)?
Are you focused more on melee or archery?
What were you considering multiclassing into? (Multiclassing alone isn't going to change your alignment or make you fall as a paladin.)
I'd suggest talking to your GM about the whole situation and seeing if you could work something out - whether swapping out levels of paladin for something else, homebrewing a non-LG paladin, or getting the other players to stop trying to run yours.
Well, with all-round high stats like that, you should be able to play pretty much whatever class you want. Monk? Alchemist? Rogue? Ninja? Oracle? Cleric? Wizard? Magus? Druid? Fighter? Cavalier? Zen Archer?
Alternatively, Talk to your GM and tell him you'd like to swap your character out when you get back to that training area... if he's receptive he can work you into the story when you are in that new city/town/training community.
Paladin is a can of worms a lot of people wake up and decide they dont want!
First, you should take the previous advice and understand Paladinhood with your GM. As long as you two understand what is right and wrong, you can ignore everyone else.
Second, is what is right and wrong for the Paladin, what you want to play?
If yes, you can keep your Paladin powers and decide to continue as Paladin or multi-class into something else. There are many options with your stats and 2 levels of Paladin. Maybe start another thread.
If no, now you have more decisions to make, because playing how you want threatens to lose your Paladin powers, which is no fun.
Here you have essentially four options assuming you want to play with these jerks:
1. Continue to play the Paladin and/or multiclass and try to enjoy the atonement part of getting back your Paladinhood. Some challenges and aggravations can be enjoyable in the long term.
2. Ask your GM to retrain your first two levels of Paladin into something near your concept, like Inquisitor, Ranger or whatever. You should have leverage with him, since he should have been more clear about the things you don't like in his Paladin code of conduct at the beginning.
3. Multiclass and prepare the character to never atone and live with your Paladin levels as weak Fighter levels.
4. Do you and the GM like a Chaotic Evil character? If yes, work out with your GM to Fall to an Anti-Paladin. You can do this in secret with the GM and stun the other player-characters. However, to ensure party harmony, make sure you maintain a compelling reason your Chaotic Evil anti-paladin continues to hang around the party and keeps them alive.
cheers
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A Good Lawyer is still a Lawyer
A LG Paladin is still a sword-wielding, fully-armored, Full BAB, Good saves, high-damage dealing machine.
Go "Pure Divine Righteous" on on your character. She/He wants to save everyone's souls, even if it means freeing such souls from the bounds of the mortal coil.
For example,
1) A city's guard pinched your character in the back side and gave you a sexiest comment? Return the favor with a full on plate-mail Gauntlet to HIS back side!
Evil? NO! You are just returning the "greeting".
2) You need to question the owner of a gambling den. Your team mates warn that you can do anything "bad" to the owner... WALK right into that den, grab that owner and threaten to have the hold place SHUT DOWN, unless he starts talking.
3) Your rogue party mate thinks it is really funny to steal from you. Remind him why you have a 2-handed sword.
FORGIVE him! (Good side requirement done!) Then CUT that offending hand OFF! (Law side requirement done!)
Be PISS off, Be Merciful, Be a Lawyer... be the Blade, also known Bloody Deity's PALADIN!
Hope this helps! :)
hmm Frankly if you aren't enjoying playing the character then -
1 - Go out in a blaze of glory - ie I can take that Evil Ancient Dragon just let me at it..
2 - Discuss with your ref what you like and dislike about your character and come to an agreement to where you wish to go with the character...
3 Tell the other players to keep their noses out of how you are playing the character (it is your character not theirs) and pay more attention to their own problems...
Can you play evil characters? You could fall and become an antipaladin. I would talk to the GM about it though as its up to them when you get to swap out your levels. You would get some very similar abilities and the antipaladin code is a lot more open and forgiving than a paladins.
Solution is simple- stop playing with trolls unless they change attitude.Perhaps they pretend to have "reason" ( very high stats,special attention from GM or similar excuses )but this kind of behavoiur is catty.
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As others have said, if you want to remain a Paladin then talk to the GM about how he views Lawful Good and the code of conduct. If not, perhaps he'd allow you to trade in Paladin levels for Fighter on the basis that you'd been unaware of what the class requires from you in his game. Paladins have been, historically, one of the most persecuted classes in my opinion with regards to their alignment and code. It mostly comes from two peoples definitions of 'good' varying and so talking to the GM is the best bet.
Or some GM's are antagonistic who see the code and deliberately plot ways to make you fall by presenting fail/fail choices. I don't know that yours is that type but it's something to be cognizant of. You can't fight city hall, as the saying goes.
As well, the GM is running the game, not your fellow players. If you ask them for advice or help, it's one thing, but they shouldn't be critiquing your every action. That's the GM's job if he feels there's a conflict with your alignment or code. Ask your fellow players to leave you be and, if they don't, ask the GM to get involved. It's his responsibility to moderate in situations like these.
As a last resort, as Herbatnik above suggested, you could be playing with others who are naturally antagonistic. I've known many male players who feel awkward playing with a female and if you're the only one that could be a part of it? I'm not sure on the maturity level of your group. And, if this situation is unresolvable, you may need to leave the game to look for one more welcoming. I know that can be difficult depending on how popular gaming is in your area. Something to think on though, hopefully this advice is useful.
Can you play evil characters? You could fall and become an antipaladin. I would talk to the GM about it though as its up to them when you get to swap out your levels. You would get some very similar abilities and the antipaladin code is a lot more open and forgiving than a paladins.
I agree with this have it that the elves brainwashed you and your real drow evil personality starts to return slowly turning you into an anti paladin. :)
If the issue is the other players they need to back off and you and the GM can work out how you play your paladin. If the issue is the GM seems to want to constrain you as you feel you are playing LG but he disagrees they kill off your Paladin and play something else.
2nd: Ask the DM how he feels about the paladins code, how he interprets it, how you interpret it, and how he will enforce it. Some DMs take some kind of wicked pleasure in seing paladins fall, if you get that impression from him I'd recommend making a new character rather than multiclassing. More reasonable DMs will handwave it, if you get that impression from him continue with your character and ask if you can maybe recieve a warning if you are ever in the danger of falling.
emphasis mine, most folks i play with it's borderline fetishistic. which is why i only get to play paladins once in a blue moon
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ADHD isnt helped by the fact that I am the only girl and for some reason that adds a necessity of mocking every time a mess up.)
So, first of all, tell them to f~#* off. As nicely (or not) as you like, but that is really not cool and there is absolutely no reason you should have to put up with that. I'm a female gamer (also with ADD) and no one in my regular groups has treated me like that save maybe one guy many years ago who stopped after he got the glare of death from me. (I've gotten gender-related flack from relative strangers at the game store or in a university game club but not the folks I'd choose to play with regularly.)
(Now, we may all, equal opportunity, tease one another about the occasional silly error, but that's different. :) )
I mean, I get your question here is about your character, but I'm seeing that at least part of the underlying problem has nothing to do with your character -- it has to do with the fact that your fellow players are being disrespectful to you, on this and on how you play your character. And that is a serious issue. It is no fun to play with people who don't respect you.
So one thing is talking to the players and the GM about knocking it the hell off and treating you right. And if they don't, it's worth considering looking for another group. There are always more gamers out there than you think and often (though sadly not always) in my experience female gamers being in a minority are highly welcome and encouraged rather than the other way around.
But I am now noticing that I hate being Lawful Good, especially as a Drow.What should I do?
Can I multiclass and take a loss on being a paladin?
----
A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully
commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses
all paladin spells and class features (including the service
of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield
proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels
as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement
potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement
spell description in Chapter 10), as appropriate.
----Should I start being another class and atone later if I want to go back to lawful good?
How would you multiclass? Would you stay lawful good if you multiclassed? Would you call level 1 a loss and keep going?
If I disliked my concept, race, and class overall, I would just ask the GM if I could build a new character, especially relatively early in the campaign.
If I were to multiclass out of paladin, I agree with another poster's assessment and multi to sorcerer and then eldritch knight. You at least don't lose the proficiency required to aim for EK.
But then...
PS. I like being a Paladin, but there is a few gamers there that are watching my every Lawful Good step. Telling me what I would and wouldnt do as a lawful good character... I wish I was neutral so I wouldnt have to hear it.
Also, in case I didn't mention it, tell them to f!%@ off.
If you actually like being a paladin, and what is making it unfun to play are the players, then the problem is most definitely not your character and is most definitely the players themselves being d-bags and sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.
Other people have put this more eloquently than I hence my lack of patience (also I'm sick, which gives me a -10 to Diplomacy), so take their more civil advice than mine.
But seriously, if you like the class then you should be able to play it without people getting on your case about how to play. Now, veteran gamers can be full of advice. I find myself giving unsolicited advice all the damn time to newer players and have to constantly stop myself -- sometimes folks just want to help and it comes out wrong. But when it comes to roleplaying alignment -- that is between you and your GM. If your GM is cool with your RP, then it doesn't matter what the other players think (unless you're doing stuff like murdering babies and burning down orphanages, then I might see their issue). I do agree that Lawful Good is a problem in that everyone often has their own idea on how to play it--and often it bears no resemblance to the description of said alignment in the rulebook at all, even moreso than other alignments that often cause issues. But even so, a good group of players should be able to allow other players wiggle room with interpretation of alignment and how to play their character. There can be some questioning of actions but if it's so frequent that it's making you want to ditch your character then something's wrong, and it's not the character itself.
make a new char. It's no fun to play something you hate.
No allowed - don't see why anyone would force another player to play something they don't. But if not roleplay drows self-loathing. Go down in a blaze of glory and refuse any attempt to be raised.
I'm pretty sure nothing is naturally evil except outsiders and chromatic dragons. Some races (eg. goblins) seem to be naturally chaotic so that might get an adopted drow in trouble, but evil is usually personal or cultural.
I don't think Chromatic dragons are -naturally- evil, and even outsiders can change alignment.
You could "rework" your character into an inquisitor. You basically roleplay a Paladin but your fellow players can't complain nearly as much.
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Work with the DM to actually write out a code. You (and the other jerk players) are guessing at it. Work out a code that says "I will do this, and this, never that"
Then, you can get the other players to shut up. That's a start.
It sounds like the problem is not your race/class, but with your fellow players who are watching your conduct like hawks.
The only ones that need to focus on that are you and the DM.
It sounds like you're taking unnecessary flak because you're a girl and a new player. It sounds as though when you do anything that "THEY" consider out of code or against alignment, out comes the "ooooh, I'm telling, you're being naughty". And that's not right.
I concur with the above. You and the DM should list out your code, and then you simply hold fast to your character's code and personal morals. If you find you must do something outside those parameters, and you think it's towards the "greater good", it's allowed, and you won't lose your powers, if you properly Atone for your actions.
That being said, as a DM, I do take my Paladins very seriously. They get a lot of nice powers for the tradeoff of their alignment and code, and a Drow noble raised by elves would be especially on guard of keeping the proper behavior else risk being judged by her skin instead of her actions.
The other players need to back off. I personally love your character concept, but as a new player I'd be very watchful of a Paladin.
I don't think you need to multiclass, and that would not change your alignment anyways. You can look at some of the Paladin Archetypes if your DM allows it, perhaps if there are some powers you want to substitute and didn't have access to them before. Archetypes are a way to tailor your character to your personal taste. Just make sure your DM is ok with it.
Fall on your sword.
It's the only way out.
Actually, the other way out is to make a deal with a Dark God and become an Antipaladin. They're cooler than Paladins anyway, and you wouldn't lose any class levels.
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Fall on your sword.
It's the only way out.
Actually, the other way out is to make a deal with a Dark God and become an Antipaladin. They're cooler than Paladins anyway, and you wouldn't lose any class levels.
and don't forget the standard issue twin scimitars. a must have item for any drow.
A couple people mentioned going Sorc into EK. Personally I would recommend Sorc (draconic bloodline) into Dragon Disiple.
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and don't forget the standard issue twin scimitars. a must have item for any drow.Fall on your sword.
It's the only way out.
Actually, the other way out is to make a deal with a Dark God and become an Antipaladin. They're cooler than Paladins anyway, and you wouldn't lose any class levels.
That requires Ranger levels, and ranks in Angst.
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I understand the sarcasm and levity, but let's not forget this is a new player playing a class she doesn't completely understand. Posts not answering her questions aren't going to give her the assistance she seeks, and clever, snarky options such as "Fall on your sword" may serve to confuse and/or offend a new player.
That requires Ranger levels, and ranks in Angst.and don't forget the standard issue twin scimitars. a must have item for any drow.Fall on your sword.
It's the only way out.
Actually, the other way out is to make a deal with a Dark God and become an Antipaladin. They're cooler than Paladins anyway, and you wouldn't lose any class levels.
Drizz't was originally a fighter, and back in the day, when he was created, paladin and ranger were subclasses of fighter. if we go by that, a twin scimitar paladin is just as valid as a twin scimitar ranger.
Antipaladin would actually make his character less banal, if you want to get right down to it. The lawful good drow kicked from his homelands has been done a thousand times, and is quite boring and lame. It might be quite the refreshing angle to play the LG exile Drow who discovers after much consternation and frustration with surfacers that evil is right, and all these bastards need to die. Dump the 2 scimitars for an adamantine lance and start getting serious.
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Drizz't was originally a fighter, and back in the day, when he was created, paladin and ranger were subclasses of fighter. if we go by that, a twin scimitar paladin is just as valid as a twin scimitar ranger.That requires Ranger levels, and ranks in Angst.and don't forget the standard issue twin scimitars. a must have item for any drow.Fall on your sword.
It's the only way out.
Actually, the other way out is to make a deal with a Dark God and become an Antipaladin. They're cooler than Paladins anyway, and you wouldn't lose any class levels.
Even when he was stated up in 3.0 for Forgotten Realms he was Fighter 10/ Barbarian 1/Ranger 5. Why yes, I do remember bizarre things, thank you for asking.
I may be one of the few people that unapologetically likes Drizzt (he's one of the characters that makes fighters really cool to me, yes I know he has ranger levels but that's not the point), but it's true that any attempt to emulate him with a PC is doomed to horrible, embarrassing failure. /tangent
In the interest of actually contributing to this thread, I'll echo those that say that most of your problem seems to be the other players at your table, who have singled you out for disrespectful treatment because of your gender. Unless you have some other attachment to these people, I recommend looking for a different group. Many gaming groups do not treat female gamers this way, and everyone deserves to game with a group that treats them with respect. I know looking for a group is kind of a pain in the rear, but you will be much happier in the long run with a group that is awesome instead of mean. Of course, if you change groups, you'll probably need a new character regardless. In the meantime, the suggestion of sitting down with the DM and working out what that paladin code exactly does and does not mean for your character is a good one. I also highly recommend getting a phylactary of faithfulness as soon as your resources allow if you are at all concerned about your paladin making a misstep with his/her code. The phylactary of faithfulness is a magic item that will give you warning when you are about to violate your code. That might at least mitigate the danger of "Surprise, you lost class abilities!", and give you license to ask your DM point-blank if an action you're considering would be a violation.
an outsider or dragon can adopt an atypical alignment too. radically atypical outsiders or dragons might get a lot of unwanted attention. such as a chaotic evil gold dragon or a lawful good succubus. but a true neutral succubus or lawful neutral gold dragon isn't unheard of and doesn't seem as extreme.
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I think the actual problem the other players have is the OP picked the stereotypical Emo Drow wannabe and the other players are probably having a little fun with that. Its very common for new people to want to play that super cool Drow super character and be edgy and mysterious. Its another thing when the rest of your group considers it a joke.
Or I could be totally off base and the rest of the group could be Drow and Catfolk Nijna/Paladins from outer space and it all works.
I think the actual problem the other players have is the OP picked the stereotypical Emo Drow wannabe and the other players are probably having a little fun with that. Its very common for new people to want to play that super cool Drow super character and be edgy and mysterious. Its another thing when the rest of your group considers it a joke.
Or I could be totally off base and the rest of the group could be Drow and Catfolk Nijna/Paladins from outer space and it all works.
Or it could be that she played a Drow Noble because the race gets ridiculous stats and quite a few SLAs.
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It is highly unfortunate that the OP chose a PC that is nearly identical to a the common parody, known as the Drizzt Syndrome.
I don't care, since the people mocking the "Syndrome" are usually unfunny "human only or you're doing it wrong" jerks anyway.
Some people like that talk about Drizz't as if he had gone and killed their pets, burned their house down and sold their family to slavery.
I never read the books, are you sure he didn't do all that to my family in them?
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I don't care, since the people mocking the "Syndrome" are usually unfunny "human only or you're doing it wrong" jerks anyway.
Some people like that talk about Drizz't as if he had gone and killed their pets, burned their house down and sold their family to slavery.
Justin Bieber didn't burn down my house and sell my family into slavery, but I reserve the right not want to see, or hear him, or variations of him.
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I understand the sarcasm and levity, but let's not forget this is a new player playing a class she doesn't completely understand. Posts not answering her questions aren't going to give her the assistance she seeks, and clever, snarky options such as "Fall on your sword" may serve to confuse and/or offend a new player.
@#$@ing seriously.
People that b$%@! incessantly about other folks liking races and classes that they dislike are far more irritating that Drizzt Syndrome ever was, because unlike the clones they never take a damn break and their comments are stagnant unchanging things(unlike all the variance possible within the scope of "good drow PC"). Hell, I think drow noble is over the top mechanics-wise but most of this is just the same old wangsting about some people liking to play good drow.
OP, I'd recommend paying more heed to Deathquaker and Barry's advice than the "lol fall/die" crowd. What you're dealing with sounds like players insisting on playing your character for you. And that is not cool.
Concurring with the need to make sure you and the GM are on the same page regarding how paladins should act and telling the group, civilly, that their bad behavior is making the game not-fun for you.
Don't let the other players tell you how to play.
There isn't a specific 'correct' way to play a paladin, besides being on the side of good and law, and behaving in an honorable way.
How to interpret that specifically is up to yourself and the GM, taking into account the particular foibles of the deity the paladin follows, if any.
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It is highly unfortunate that the OP chose a PC that is nearly identical to a the common parody, known as the Drizzt Syndrome.
Drizzt wasn't a paladin and wasn't raised by elves. The player is probably new enough she doesn't even know who Drizzt is. And folks constantly bringing up Drizzt in the thread is not going to help the player deal with her problem, and in fact derail the thread as everyone starts arguing about Drizzt instead of helping the player. She never said people were mocking her for playing a Drizzt clone--no one was even getting on her case for playing a good drow. She said they were mocking her for making mistakes and getting on her case about how to play Lawful Good, and neither of these things have anything to do with the creation of R.A. Salvatore.
A multi-classed fallen paladin is never going to be 'optimal'. Whether you can get away with it depends on your stats. Have you got a high enough strength to be a good melee character? A high enough charisma that you could use as a spellcaster?
Maybe a bard?
Alternatively, set out to die heroically like a true paladin, then make a new character.
Antipaladin
"Although it is a rare occurrence, paladins do sometimes stray from the path of righteousness."C/E is not always the right thing for campaigns, but it is sometimes better than L/G oh no you wouldnt do that groups.
The main thing almost every paladin does that annoys me is actively seeks out evil and kills them. 1/3rd of every town's citizens are evil. I've played with someone who killed the serving maid of the tavern because she was evil. The guards came and he surrendered, went to jail, and had to create a new character.....*sigh*
Part of this sounds like jerkish/immature players in the group. That we can't help you with. You get to either talk to them, put up with it, or leave.
The other part of this is the paladin code. Every single person I've ever talked to about it has a different take on what that means. Arguments on what is and is not allowed abound. You can find many threads here on these boards about this subject with no resolution. I have seriously considered banning the paladin class at my table just because I'm tired of all the arguments within the group.
Thankfully PF has another holy warrior class, the Inquisitor. So you can play a warrior dedicated to a diety/cause and get the same feel you were looking for originally without the angst. Even if you play a LG Inquisitor, you don't have everyone analyzing your every action and attitude like you do with the paladin.
You could multiclass into the inquisitor and still be playable, but I wouldn't recommend it. Talk to the GM. Tell him that a LG paladin is not working out the way you thought it would in this group. You still want some of the same flavor of the holy warrior. So you want to remake the character as an inquisitor.