Evil Alliance / Player Organization


Pathfinder Online

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Goblin Squad Member

It’s been mentioned in a few threads that PFO is currently lacking an evil alliance or truly evil player organisation. If you could have any type of evil organisation to act as a foil for the various good player organisation, what would you like to see.

• School of necromancy, black magic, and poisons
• Cults of a mad god
• Cults of a mad god who want to destroy the world
• Tyrant who want to rule the world
• Bread-making assassins (implausible I know)
• Something else.

Also what challengers do you think a player organisation would face if they declared themselves openly evil?

My personal preference is for a school of necromancy and black magic who must raid neighbouring communities for spell components (corpses, body parts etc.), and seek out forgotten lore and form a university dedicated to studying and advancing knowledge of the ‘dark arts’. It would also make a perfect place for evil-aligned faiths to setup shop and openly worship their dark deities. This community could be similar to the Black Academy that is outlined in Return to the Tomb of Horrors adventure module.

Another interesting idea would be to be part of an evil community similar to what is outlined in the RttToEE (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil) that inhabits the volcano. What was interesting about the community is the various churches of elemental evil were rivals to each other, and the grunt level cultist didn’t realise that the whole thing was a sham and was actually a scheme by the faithful of Tharizidun (I forget the exact spelling) to summon their evil god to destroy the world. From my limited knowledge this could work with the Cult of Rovag.

Anyway your thoughts would be appreciated. Who knows this could give rise to a suitable evil organisation.

Goblin Squad Member

Ravening wrote:


Anyway your thoughts would be appreciated. Who knows this could give rise to a suitable evil organization.

I also agree with this need, we do have a strong lack of evil groups going out. My organization Pocket ace is evil friendly, and most likely going to cater towards evil customers (namely because there's about 4 CG mercenary companies already, but also because good guys might also not hire a group that dabbles in banditry except in dire circumstances).

I'm actually tempted to make it more evil focused, not so much because it is what I want to do, but because of the complete and utter lack of people coming forth with evil goals.

Of course that could change drastically when the game comes closer. I think another factor right now is a good 60-70% of the forums are people here from their tabletop experience, of which most of their past characters are probably siding with good as evil campaigns are pretty rare.

Secondly factor I think that is directly hindering the evil startups, is simply the level of phobia of this game turning into a griefing fest. Lets face it currently the forces we have to counter griefers, is currently huge.

Goblin Squad Member

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I think creating evil aligned player organizations for the sake of sparking conflict will be unnecessary.

Power corrupts, but right now nobody has power. Right now the idea of organizations that protect everyone's interests will seem appealing to a lot of people because they are unsure of their position. Also organizations planning to oppress others once the rise to power are not going to claim that before they have secured that power.

What is going to happen is once players and organizations become strong within PFO. They will start deciding "We can tax this road." "We can conquer that hex." "We can randomly kill everyone we see."

Seeding this game with evil organizations is a bad idea in my opinion. How about we just enjoy the relative peace before things run their natural course?

Goblin Squad Member

Ravening wrote:
It’s been mentioned in a few threads that PFO is currently lacking an evil alliance or truly evil player organisation.

Is that what people are saying? I know at least one, other than the one I belong to and our front organization. But then again, they haven't advertised. I wonder if they should...

Goblin Squad Member

I think the "best evil" organizations are the ones that grow that way in an organic manner. I guess I agree with Andius to an extent. The ones that I've seen in past games that start out with the whole "Ooooh, we are evil, we are going to eat your babies and steal your cookies and milk" 1) don't last very long, and 2) are boring, characterless zerging gankers.

An organization that starts off as good or neutral and, as Andius stated, grow in power and becomes power drunk over time, building real in game history and relationship, would provide more for the game setting.

As Onishi mentioned another thing I've seen a lack of is creative thinking in devising real goals for past so called Evil groups. Granted, there isn't too much other than ganking that you can do in themepark games, but with a heavy sandbox title such as this it is where a talented "Evil Overlord" could work magic. I've always believed that as an evil alignment character if you don't have goals, or in your top 7 goals you have listed murder, killing or the death of any other player character, your attempt is going to fail. There are tons of ways to portray evil that will engage other players who from the experience will be glad you played evil that don't involve killing their avatar.

Goblin Squad Member

Hmmm, I always thought Blaeringr was going for the insidious/ubiquitous evil organization. You know, Slow Zerg.

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

Well if I have learned anything reading fantasy novels. Evil usually has a better track record working in the shadows. A lot less random adventurers try to kill you that way. Usually it only makes itself known when its got enough power behind it to get away with it. Or atleast thinks it does lol.

Goblin Squad Member

Onishi wrote:
... we do have a strong lack of evil groups going out.

Evil seldom stands in the light. I expect there will be plenty of Evil organizations to go around, it just won't be as overt as those who work towards Good or Order.

Goblin Squad Member

I dunno, I could totally see someone founding a school of necromancy or devil-summoning or some such. I mean, isn't that how Acadamae works?

Plus, the Hellknights are at least somewhat Lawful Evil, so there's that as well...

Goblinworks Executive Founder

The best evil organizations project a positive image and self-image: they are the leaders for freedom, justice, and collateral damage. They are willing to do whatever it takes, unlike the weak-willed who use noble means but have poor results.

Forget the sock puppet evil PC groups. There is an opprutinity here for a real fall-from-grace story arc.

Goblin Squad Member

Don't fret. There will be plenty of unorganized evil running around in PFO. Organized good and evil companies alike will have plenty of rag tag hooligans to smite around.

Goblin Squad Member

^I was actually thinking of the puppet "LG" settlements/kingdoms of the CE Kingdoms. :)

Goblin Squad Member

I think there could also be room for a "strength rules, screw the weak" type group.

If nothing else, some people might truly like to roleplay a group that's evil in some way, so I'm sure they'll pop up in time.

Goblin Squad Member

V'rel Vusoryn wrote:

I think the "best evil" organizations are the ones that grow that way in an organic manner. I guess I agree with Andius to an extent. The ones that I've seen in past games that start out with the whole "Ooooh, we are evil, we are going to eat your babies and steal your cookies and milk" 1) don't last very long, and 2) are boring, characterless zerging gankers.

An organization that starts off as good or neutral and, as Andius stated, grow in power and becomes power drunk over time, building real in game history and relationship, would provide more for the game setting.

As Onishi mentioned another thing I've seen a lack of is creative thinking in devising real goals for past so called Evil groups. Granted, there isn't too much other than ganking that you can do in themepark games, but with a heavy sandbox title such as this it is where a talented "Evil Overlord" could work magic. I've always believed that as an evil alignment character if you don't have goals, or in your top 7 goals you have listed murder, killing or the death of any other player character, your attempt is going to fail. There are tons of ways to portray evil that will engage other players who from the experience will be glad you played evil that don't involve killing their avatar.

I agree completely. The point of playing a meaningful evil character isn’t to gank other players. Rather it’s a result of pursuing goals and objectives that is in conflict to others. The conflict may eventually lead to an all-out war between settlements, but that isn’t necessarily the starting goal of the organisation.

Harrison wrote:

I dunno, I could totally see someone founding a school of necromancy or devil-summoning or some such. I mean, isn't that how Acadamae works?

Plus, the Hellknights are at least somewhat Lawful Evil, so there's that as well...

I would love to do something along this vein. While they may not be out to rule the world, the subject off their ‘studies’ would eventually put a target on them. This could start out as a group of neutral or good players delve into necromancy but actually refrain from casting the spells that cause an alignment shift. Overtime they may feel compelled to use their knowledge for the greater good, which may eventually shift their alignments to the point that the very people who they were helping actually turn on them.

Another option would be for a small group of players who wanted to transform themselves into Lich’s (or something similar). Since there is safety in numbers and it will take a long time to achieve their goals, they might decide to band together to increase their odds.

DeciusBrutus wrote:

The best evil organizations project a positive image and self-image: they are the leaders for freedom, justice, and collateral damage. They are willing to do whatever it takes, unlike the weak-willed who use noble means but have poor results.

Forget the sock puppet evil PC groups. There is an opprutinity here for a real fall-from-grace story arc.

Hard to do due to the transparency of alignments. Evil players claiming to do good would be dismissed quickly. However, the fall from grace angle is appealing. Hopefully someone can pull it off successfully. It would be awesome if someone could play a believable Paladin who falls from grace, and becomes a blackguard or something similar.

Goblin Squad Member

IronVanguard wrote:
I think there could also be room for a "strength rules, screw the weak" type group.

Oh don't worry there will be. This is how most griefer clans justify their existence. They are "culling the weak" or putting "survival of the fittest" into practice.

Ironically many are drawn to griefing newbs because they are too weak to make it in the big leagues.

Goblin Squad Member

Andius wrote:
Ironically many are drawn to griefing newbs because they are too weak to make it in the big leagues.

And that's the kind of "weak" I intend to prey on. Not the newbs, but the guys griefing them. If they're too cowardly to look for a challenge, then let the challenge look for them.


ok the list of close organizations is.

1 Hellknights but unfortunitlly they only seem like they are from some infernal plain in truth they just souly believe in law nothing else. in my opinion sounds more like inevitables but oh well. final answer L/N

2. Poisoners guild. these guys are a litle harder to explain but I wil give is a quike shot. They work for the highest bidder and do not care who gets hurt as long as the guild stays strong and the job gets done. final answer C/N

now the is alot and I do mean ALOT of very small evil organisations out there that has great story arcs. I have to give props to Ravening for his post it was «most excelent» would have made me shead a tear if bad guys could cry. Now to the meat of the matter the best way it was explained to me you have an list of baddies to play if you choose to do so and any can have a great story even if you are a crazed drooling half-orc raging barbarian going though puberty. you have 3 main ctagories.

1.C/E best person to think of is someone who wants chaos to rein to see law and good fall simultaniously a great example would be -The Joker- especial if you saw the bat man comics or the recent movie heath leger sory if i spelled his name wrong.

2 N/E these guys perform evil for the sake of evil. law chaos does not enter thir equasion unles one side or the other tries to interfear. these guys not only hate good but also do not care if law and chaose becone no more either. good examples of pure evil would probably be mum-ra comes to mind but you could also say extreamly selfish evil characters who only love themsels and gold. king midus is a great idea builder. he felt above the law he ruled and well read the story.

3 L/E my personal favorite. now this is an evil the is most often misunderstood and in my own opinion the easyiest for neutral and good players to work with because this kind of player will keep his promices but will try to bend the meaning and hide lies within the truth he may say the princess is safe but it because she is in a cage hanging over lave. she is safe as long as he dosent mutter the command word for the rope to let go. its both the best and worst role to work with they are caniving ploting and visius people who will put every effort to see evil win and win within the boundries of the law. a great example is emporer palpatine or darth sidious. he is a dark lord who also doubles as a politician. go figure . so for the sake of argument he believes in law he will folow the law and he will bend it to his gain to enhance his evil.

now that we have a grasp of these i have looked though and onle seen those two guilds barly within reason line. now I know some of you think we should not have evil guilds in so earlie. maybe its a bad idea. In truth this only criples the bad guy community ans will take another six months befor we can have enough respectable people to have any of the evil side groups being formed now I am even ging so far as to say chaos is not very well represented here either and it too is one of the prime forces also.
Now wrap your minds around this gentleman and ladies. lets say we do go though this the way it is going we have about 13 to 1 good vrs evil by my gues and around 8 to 1 law to chaos I am not including an neutral in here it has no data base and it is just a guess but I do want to metion I work for a resurch agency. anyway we have these nubers. evil is forced to work for good changing their alignment for the sake of getting decent gear and training when evil groups start opening up 1 maybe 2 months into it they will be small and easy targets for good guilds wanting to start getting a name for themselves so these groups are targetted for hunting. I am not saying they wil lose every batle but the war wil be lost until a year has passed and the two sides start evening out.
People who is your knight without an evil wizard whos is luke without vader who is cloud without sepheroth. good guys are only as memorable as the villans they have the greater the evil the more good you need to win right. so why make a weak evil community. i say bring on the summoning cults bring the necromancers guild bring the raging pub hair half orc barbarian. we need them and so much more. if ryan truely wants a human interaction game let us be the bad guys don't set up dungeons full of evil wizards thats our job. story arcs thats fine rare treasure of course I am game but a evil lich threatoning our lands with a disease to wipe us out. no no wait a second see here I am the lich see me wave my skelton hand hello bad guy here throw me a bone man. ok I have had my rant for those brave enough to read all this I thank you have a bad day!

Goblin Squad Member

Arlock Blackwind wrote:
L/E my personal favorite.

Please, I'm listening. Tell me more.

Goblin Squad Member

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Blaeringr and Ravening you both never cease to amaze. anyway what we need is to look at curent in game mechanic guilds. The Shadow Haven will be a great character made guild I am sure but there is just to many oppressed evil characters left out. There is a great promice for this game and I want every one to enjoy themselves and I'm not saying for every good aliance their should be an evil one. For so many good and neutral guilds coming out upon release with no evil in sight I can't help but to wonder when if ever that organizations like the wispering way or a group of the old gods worshipers WILL come into play. I know Ryan is pushing development as hard as possible and is making great steamway but he should pull back one or two of those organizations to place at least one evil cult. trust me if there are griefers or pks just to be evil I will not be one of them. My plans are always long term and deal great damage over time. kill a man you eat for a day enslave a man you eat for a lifetime. It is just good buisness.

On the topic of placing guilds in game will cause conflict early on let me say this. Yes you are right we will have evil charecters reguardless of whatever we start with. Yes there will be fights with good and evil being the main reason. My point is good is going to be organised and easier to lable. Now don't go though the streets yelling your a wispering way agent but we should have a place or guild where these charecters can safly train and gather to make plans. yes a squad here a small cult there. We have mercenaries and settlements already being planed for at least four major good or neutral guilds. I may be wrong but there is not one evil guild with more than two or three first launch gamers. Evil is way out numbered and sad to say but the good guys are going to get bored really fast with AI no matter how hard it gets. Now with such a weak evil comunnity how are we to win even a few out in the open fights. I would not complain unless I had a reason and here it is. My most cherished games is when my good friends and me played those good vrs evil. It dident matter who won who was best it only mattered that it was human ageinst human and it was hard. in a secret meeting in the woods with an assasin and a anti paladin my necromancer was aquiring illegal material for undead summoning and interupted by two town guards who were hunting. I quickly drank an invisability potion to hide because I was a respectable member of society. the assasin and anti paladin attacked and lost the fight. when discussing weither to kill the bandits or bring them to town I ran over to then and slipped healing potions and inviability potion to them. when I did this my own invisability potion wore off and I was seen by the guard.
needles to say they were surprised and I drank yet another invisibility potion and ran off with my acomplises. The next day I was quetioned by the guard but no respectable member of society would ever do such a thing so I was off the hook.

Now who can place any dungeon crawl higher than a good story piece like that. It is true by the way, every word. No one died and no one got bored but how is evil suppost to be everywhere if it not encouraged. no way is our tiny evil groups going to interact with every good guild and not everyone is going to have the chance have that kind of story for themselves. I want everyone to have an ecounter like that. not just sword swinging killers but actual evil rp ageinst good we don't have to win and most times neither side does. We have to encourage a stronger evil society for the reasons of better rp human interaction.

Goblin Squad Member

For those who think Blaeingr and Ravening are just hype, there are those who actually are paying attention and planing stuff that isn't open to public knowledge. Organized evil, there is ! Same as every game, there are those who oppose the norm. I am sure they are here here also.


I represent a real life gaming group who are very interested in the game. As our tabletop games tend to gravitate towards evil, I'm sure that we'll do so in-game as well although just how we do it will be up for debate.

There will certainly be evil groups and not necessarily the griefers that many established groups seem to be afraid of.

Goblin Squad Member

Arlock Blackwind wrote:
... we should have a place or guild where these charecters can safly train and gather to make plans.
Scarlette wrote:
I am sure they are here here also.

I expect you'll find most of the Evil-themed organizations will try to "hide in plain sight" inside of other organizations.

For what it's worth, The Seventh Veil has already considered this reality and come to the conclusion that, as long as you're contributing to our success, we're not going to waste our time and effort trying to ferret out whatever else you're doing.

[Edit]Not that we're inviting you. Truth be told, we'd really rather you didn't embed yourself in our community. It's just that we recognize that you have/will, and that there's not really anything we can do to stop it.


it will be hard to hide in plain site unless you are good at moding your alignment after every evil deed. no spoon full of suger is going to hide the seven corpes in your basement that you plan to use for a flesh golem. there is the other problem of what to do when you get caught. unless you have a plan and back up stash of equipment. face it we WILL have to play good THEN switch to evil when there more of a community for it. thats my point we shouldent have to. we should start from the get go in a guild for evil. so we do not waist time helping you to kill us when we leave. whats the point building your settlemnt up if i am just going to leave when a better guild opens up?

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Arlock Blackwind wrote:
... we should have a place or guild where these charecters can safly train and gather to make plans.
Scarlette wrote:
I am sure they are here here also.

I expect you'll find most of the Evil-themed organizations will try to "hide in plain sight" inside of other organizations.

For what it's worth, The Seventh Veil has already considered this reality and come to the conclusion that, as long as you're contributing to our success, we're not going to waste our time and effort trying to ferret out whatever else you're doing.

[Edit]Not that we're inviting you. Truth be told, we'd really rather you didn't embed yourself in our community. It's just that we recognize that you have/will, and that there's not really anything we can do to stop it.

Aeternum has come to the same conclusion. We have talked with our Eve division leaders and they have pretty much implied the same. We have can and have set hurdles, but that by no means makes it impossible. In fact despite it we have been assured its inevitable.

You just have to accept it as a game element, and realize games are made for fun. While the possibility should keep you on your toes, it shouldn't be allowed to ruin the enjoyment factor.

Goblin Squad Member

@Dak, I'm glad to hear that y'all have reached the same conclusion. It makes me more confident that we're on the right track.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Oh, Blaeringr/Nihimon/Dak, you know that you're welcome in whatever organization you want. I'm just flattered that you're taking the initiative and doing the work to build up at least three organizations.

We don't really care which gods you want to work for on the side, just don't work against our interests too much.

Goblin Squad Member

Scarlette wrote:
Same as every game, there are those who oppose the norm.

I call those people anti-griefers. You wouldn't believe how revolutionary the idea "We don't kill people unless they give us a reason" was when I was running Great Legionnaires on Darkfall. We were considered radicals even among our allies.

People were dumbfounded that we wouldn't use kill/gank on everyone outside our alliance in a game where those abilities were provided to us. That we would let people go, or revive people who we killed over a misunderstanding... shocked the community. And a lot of people thought we were idiots.

In order to make that part of this game's long term culture we are going to have A LOT of work cut out for us. Every day we will have people coming in saying "If you weren't meant to kill everyone, you wouldn't have that option!"

I suppose I would like some evil organizations seeded into the game that are RP evil and not griefers to set an example for the incoming evil clans. But I think putting too much effort on making sure there are evil organizations is like watering the grass beneath a dam that is about to burst because it looks a bit dry right now.

Instead we should be trying to focus on how to patch that dam so when it inevitably bursts, the flow isn't so strong it sweeps away our whole town.

Goblin Squad Member

On the Internet, no one knows you're Blaeringr...

[Edit] Did I just prove Blaeringr is a dog?


I am glad we are making some good starts for the evil side and I'm glad to hear and see from alot of guilds. If only the flood gates were this this easy to control. Excuse me whiel I go water the grass.

As for sugestion on guilds I will most likely RP a wispering agent even if there is no official guild for it. No OOCK there fellas. So my vote would be an undead theamed cult of some kind. Maybe a fleshwarpers factory.

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:

Oh, Blaeringr/Nihimon/Dak, you know that you're welcome in whatever organization you want. I'm just flattered that you're taking the initiative and doing the work to build up at least three organizations.

We don't really care which gods you want to work for on the side, just don't work against our interests too much.

Wait...I get to join the Nihimon / Blaeringr conspiracy?

Can you say Upgrayedd?

Goblin Squad Member

Scarlette wrote:
For those who think Blaeingr and Ravening are just hype, there are those who actually are paying attention and planing stuff that isn't open to public knowledge. Organized evil, there is ! Same as every game, there are those who oppose the norm. I am sure they are here here also.

Lies! After 10 cans of Redbull, you better believe I'm nothing but hype!

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
[Edit] Did I just prove Blaeringr is a dog?

Yes.

Goblin Squad Member

Arlock Blackwind wrote:
it will be hard to hide in plain site unless you are good at moding your alignment after every evil deed. no spoon full of suger is going to hide the seven corpes in your basement that you plan to use for a flesh golem. there is the other problem of what to do when you get caught. unless you have a plan and back up stash of equipment. face it we WILL have to play good THEN switch to evil when there more of a community for it. thats my point we shouldent have to. we should start from the get go in a guild for evil. so we do not waist time helping you to kill us when we leave. whats the point building your settlemnt up if i am just going to leave when a better guild opens up?

But my secondary character who does no in game evil deeds can certainly fill the meta-game evil function I need him to. Take Tony as merely one example. I intend to create Tony as a lawful good paladin, and all he's going to do that the game servers will be able to see is talk to people and sell "bread".

Goblin Squad Member

Blaeringr wrote:
I intend to create Tony as a lawful good paladin, and all he's going to do that the game servers will be able to see is talk to people and sell "bread".

This is why I think there will be a sea-change in games like these when "information" is represented in-game, and must be passed around in-game in order to be acted upon.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
Blaeringr wrote:
I intend to create Tony as a lawful good paladin, and all he's going to do that the game servers will be able to see is talk to people and sell "bread".

This is why I think there will be a sea-change in games like these when "information" is represented in-game, and must be passed around in-game in order to be acted upon.

Here here.

Goblin Squad Member

I’m still very new to the Golarion setting. Can someone please post a link to major and minor organisation, particularly the ones that are nasty!

Goblin Squad Member

@Ravening, this looks promising.

Pathfinder Wiki - Category:Organizations

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

@Ravening, this looks promising.

Pathfinder Wiki - Category:Organizations

Thanks Blaeringr. I mean thanks Nihimon

Goblin Squad Member

Ravening wrote:
Nihimon wrote:

@Ravening, this looks promising.

Pathfinder Wiki - Category:Organizations

Thanks Blaeringr. I mean thanks Nihimon

No problem.

Goblin Squad Member

Blaeringr wrote:
Ravening wrote:
Nihimon wrote:

@Ravening, this looks promising.

Pathfinder Wiki - Category:Organizations

Thanks Blaeringr. I mean thanks Nihimon
No problem.

Conspiracy confirmed!!!

Goblin Squad Member

interesting...

one: i get a genuine giggle out of the 'chaotic good' "organizations". ha ha, good one! what are you called, "Anarchy United!"???

2: my guess is that LE will be the dominant 'evil' alignment. anyone who creates a fiefdom will set up their own rules and become, in effect, a tyrant. NE PCs will play large and important rules within such organizations (as will LN).

3: with the gated-release structure of PFO, i'm of the belief that the griefers that so many here seem so afraid of will be fairly rigidly controlled by both sides. perhaps i'm just naive, or simply don't have enough exposure to open pvp-mmo's (i played conan online... meh). but it seems that with 1: a predominantly good aligned player base (as we seem to be developing, at least in the open), and 2: a slowly-ramping-up player base catering to genuinely interested players (i know i'm in the first 2000, how 'bout you?) willing to take a gamble on such an audacious and ground-breaking game, that grief-monkeys will be hard-pressed to make an impact with such rigorous internal policing.

4: can someone point me to threads/thoughts on alignment mechanics? i find it hard to swallow the idea that evil (NE/LE/CE) aligned PCs will be KOS without some kind of identifying mechanic. as well, there are certainly ways within Pathfinder to obscure alignment, intent, etc. to say nothing of appearance (race, gender, clothing etc.) As Ryan has pointed out that espionage will be alive and well in the game, i find it hard to picture the mechanical equivalent, in-game, of all the 'evil' PCs wearing black tabards. undoubtedly this is where the various ideas surrounding reputation will come in, but how/where does one start the discussion of "well, those goody-two-legions-of-veil don't like me, but that doesn't mean that i'm evil... so just where do i fit?!?"

5: taxes. and death. but mostly taxes. who will collect them on behalf of the organizations seeking to control hexes? how will that be administered? therein lies a great deal of potentially very evil game-play, that doesn't even have to venture beyond LN.

6: the most successful evil in the game will not be the ones running around in black, yelling "lolz-look a pally, let's go get'im!" as already intimated by those above: evil will find a foothold in the dark cracks that are, invariably, created by those bradishing light. That said, i agree that the truly powerful (read: hex-controlling, resource monopolizing, and typically organized) er... organizations will all take time to reach those lofty goals, regardless of alignment (again, referring to anything larger than guilds for at least the first year of open enrollment is basically out of the question, regardless of hopes, due to the nature of the economies required by the game mechanics to support such ventures. also commented upon by Ryan in a blog, somewhere). all i'm really getting at here is that the snowball of good is as unlikely as the omnipresent evil.

7: the 'typical' dark-fantasy stand by: the thieves' guild. how will they develop in this sandbox? information brokers, for sure. employing armies of beggars and pick-pockets: less likely (but certainly possible). simple bounty-hunters: of course. got a grief/beef: go see shady-slim-shank, and he'll find you a contract killer for hire. what other roles are to be expected? is b&e going to become a possibility once guild halls are created/built? general populace housing a target (if and when it happens)? grave-robbers for the necromancers? alchemists for the poisoners? does this mean that every herbalist shop and special spell-component procurer will be scrutinized based on their business transactions? how will 'hot' merchandise be dealt with?

so, far too much here to contemplate for a tuesday arvo, and i hate the number 7, so...

8: catch me if you can...

Grym


I am sorry I cannot point he right direction but Alignments mechanics should be pretty simple in PFO with small alignment changes and the occasional big one. not sure if you will default to TN upon character creation or be allowed to pick your starting alignment. as for chaotic good organisations they scare me more than anything.
1 they hate me
2 they don't follow the law so they hunt relentlessly.
think of Robin Hood and Han Solo. great icons for CG. no rules, just get the bad guy at any cost.

Goblin Squad Member

People are so focused on physical manifestations of evil. So shortsighted.

Sometimes its not what you do, it's what you know. And who you choose to tell. For the right price.

Of course finding information, that's the hard part, that takes skills. And hey, if you just happen to acquire some valuables while you're acquiring those alchemical formulas or ballista designs, or deeds of ownership, more power to you my friend.

Perhaps we could do a deal?

Goblin Squad Member

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith

Religion and 'evil' go so well together.


The most problematic issue I foresee with being of an evil alignment is finding a settlement devoid enough of drama that will allow you access to the higher tier skills, etc.

I think that the 'evil' faction in-game are going to be quite self-destructive as people claw to have some kind of dominion over others. I think that some people are underestimating how much of an effect the alignment system is going to have. When evil characters are banned from entering good/neutral settlements in order to increase their skills, they could very well begin to fall behind unless an organisation steps forward to hold dominion over everyone else, which then paints an enormous target on them for any good-aligned organisation to go after them.


Southraven wrote:

People are so focused on physical manifestations of evil. So shortsighted.

Sometimes its not what you do, it's what you know. And who you choose to tell. For the right price.

Of course finding information, that's the hard part, that takes skills. And hey, if you just happen to acquire some valuables while you're acquiring those alchemical formulas or ballista designs, or deeds of ownership, more power to you my friend.

Perhaps we could do a deal?

...what are you, a Cleric of Norgorber?

Goblin Squad Member

I suspect there will eventualy be a fair number of Evil organizations in PFO once it gets rolling...some of them will probably just be used as a rationalization to gank, but not all, I'm sure. There are certain types of Evil organizations that can operate openly.

The stereo-typical example would be something that mimics the dark side of the Roman Empire (minus all the insanity). Essentialy a LE organization that wants to create and rule an Empire. It has no desire to perform Evil acts simply for the sake of Evil and might even make some attempt to avoid where there is little cost to it for doing so...but has absolutely no cumpunction about commiting them where it serves thier purposes well. Such a group could even potentialy cooperate with LG organizations in a limited scope....

For example imagine a swarm of uncontrolable monsterous beasts sweeping across the land wrecking havoc...

The LG Kingdom might be motivated to fight against the swarm for the pain and suffering it brings to the people.

The LE Kingdom might be motivated to fight against the swarm because monsters killing it's peasants damages it's own economic base and therefore weakens it.

Neither side wants the havoc the swarm creates to continue. The LG Kingdom might not be happy about working with the LE Kingdom, but if it's the quickest way to stop innocent peasants from dieing, they'd likely see it as the moral choice. The LE Kingdom simply wouldn't care, it's the most expediant way to solve the problem.

In terms of In-Game Conflict don't discount the possibilty of Neutral aligned powers fighting each other...or even Good vs Good conflicts. Good aligned organizations would definately strive to avoid conflict with each other or find a non-violent way to resolve it...but ultimately if both felt that they had a rightfull claim to something and the other was clearly in the wrong...it might come down to blows...it's possible one side might begin to doubt the other was really good. It's possible such conflicts might be much more limited in scope and involve strict rules of engagement or even involve a single mutualy agreed upon fight....but I wouldn't discount the possibility of thier happening. Some strange things can develop once the rails come off.

P.S. More on subject, my favorate bad guys weren't the "Rawr, lets kill" ones, but the ones who avoided direct conflict and rather were focused on trying to make the good guys fall from grace.

Goblin Squad Member

Kastarr Eunson wrote:

The most problematic issue I foresee with being of an evil alignment is finding a settlement devoid enough of drama that will allow you access to the higher tier skills, etc.

I think that the 'evil' faction in-game are going to be quite self-destructive as people claw to have some kind of dominion over others. I think that some people are underestimating how much of an effect the alignment system is going to have. When evil characters are banned from entering good/neutral settlements in order to increase their skills, they could very well begin to fall behind unless an organisation steps forward to hold dominion over everyone else, which then paints an enormous target on them for any good-aligned organisation to go after them.

When I did my tongue-in-cheek advertising for Shadow-Haven, it was with a view to creating an evil (neutral evil to be precise) community, of scholars (necromancers, diabolists etc.), artisans (alchemists, herbalists etc.), merchants (assassins, bandits, fences etc.), and spiritualists (followers of evil faiths). The community would be less concerned about global domination and more focused on providing a safe and open place for evil aligned characters to meet, learn, trade, and rest. In the long run I’m sure evil settlements bent of warfare and domination will eventually spring up. Until that point it’s going to be a challenge to play an evil aligned character. In fact based on the current 3 NPC settlements neutral evil characters are going to have it worst, as they won’t be able to enter any of the three settlements.


the OP should be careful what he wishes for. I just posted my evil alliance thread, and I would like to divert the attention of any prospective evil-doers to it.

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