So, in one of those moments of synergistic weirdiosity, I just watched this film about Quebec, unions and a certain Russian revolutionary.
|
As long as you are watching canadian movies you should watch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bon_Cop,_Bad_Cop
So, that took a while. For anyone who's still interested:
I'm going to spoiler tag this because it's long...
** spoiler omitted **...
No. I am unsure you know how fascism works. Fascism was a response to communism, which advocated workers rights and egalitarianism (even if it never achieved it, that's immaterial). Fascism is basically the act of using something to unite the proles against a common enemy (real or imagined) in order to distract them from their own misery and keep them working for the money power elite. It's really quite ingenious! This is also why we refer to regimes like the Taliban and Iran as "Islamofascist" because they use religious fervor as much as nationalism.
I agree on that account. But what has that to do with the price of butter?
There was PLENTY of shared cultural ground across Germany, so that statement is frankly poppycock, but more importantly the biggest two strings to pull were 1) nationalism and 2) religion. The population of Europe had been pretty overwhelmingly Christian for quite some time now, as I'm sure you know.
There certainly was some common cultural ground in Germany. High German, for one. Thing is, it wasn't enough to unify the people in one state. To stay with the example of language: High German was the language of educated people. Most people spoke in dialect so thick that they had trouble understanding each other, for example. (I still have problems talking with people from Upper or Lower Bavaria.) We can't even agree on what type of beer is acceptable, for gods' sake.
Religion was also a dividing factor, since Germany were basically split in the middle between Catholics and Protestants. Intermarriage between the convictions was heavily frowned upon, and often led to the couples being socially cast out.Another reason for the German ethnic nationalism was that France already had "invented" civic nationalism: being proud of your country because you contributed to its well-being. After the Napoleonic Wars, introducing that concept into Germany simply wasn't possible.
What we're talking about is ethnicity, and ethnicity is a dirty brew that includes race, religion, and language. The Jews were not ethnic Germans: they didn't look like Germans, they had a strange religions, and they spoke their own language. They were outsiders. To say religion didn't play a part in that is to miscomprehend ethnicity.
I'm sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with you here. Stating that Jews didn't looked German and didn't speak the language either marks you as someone who has absolutely no clue what he's talking about. Loads of Jews were absolutely indistinguishable from the rest of the population (something described today as "assimilated"), a development that started even before WWI and progressed well into the 1920s. Add to that the Germans have been a multi-ethnic people for thousands of years at that time, you couldn't tell a Jew from a German just by looking at or talking to them.
My point is that they used BOTH nationalism AND religious memes to unite Germany. Nationalism in that they attempted to look back at the Holy Roman Empire (hmm...Religion as well) and also the Weimar Republic (the Second Reich) as being the only states having existed that united all the German people.They used both pre-Roman German pagan as well as religious iconography, and they also used the icons of the HRE which itself inherited from Rome (the two-headed eagle). But don't mistake HRE imagery for irreligious. While it's true what Voltaire says that the Holy Roman Empire was "neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire," that oughtn't distract from the fact that it was united by Catholic christianity and administrated by the church. I'm just saying, just remember that the pining for the good old days of the Holy Roman Empire was explicitly pining for a time when religion and law were intertwined.
First of all, the HRM didn't unite s*%@. It was a loosely organized collection of small countries for the sole reason to elect an Emperor now and then, and whose lords vied for political control against each other by means of intrigue, murder, and war. Hell, the moniker "German Nation" was just an afterthought. The latin word "natio" also means "birthplace", not "people".
Its religious imagery was used to gain political traction against the church, not with it. The emperors had a long history of rivalry with the various popes, and while it is true that it was administered by the church, that was intentionally done by the Ottones to better control what their rivals in Rome (or whereever the Holy See had relocated to) tried to do within the realm.All that was basically ancient history by the time the "Second Reich", founded in 1871. (Which is not the Weimar Republic, btw. That was only its „last gleaming“.) It introduced the ius sanguinis, so that only someone who was German by blood by a citizen. If you look at the speeches made in the Reichstag at the inauguration of the Emperor, they were explicitly stating they didn't want to have anything to do with the church. Except for the Zentrum, but then again, that was the political arm of the Catholic church in Germany you are looking for. The majority of the nationalist thinkers at that time used non-religious reasoning. They used non-religious legends like the Nibelung saga, Arminius the Cherusc, and Frederic I Barbarossa as examples for „German-ness“.
They also used old ethnic hatred of Jews, that had been fostered and perpetuated by the Catholic church for literally milennia (going back to old Rome and Constantine), as one of their ideological foci.
Ethnic hatred? Fostered and perpetuated by the Church? No. It was religious resentment that the Church propagated.
Another thing to understand about fascism is that it operates by creating a sort of tunnel vision. There has to be a clear vision of a goal, a positive outcome, as well as something to unite people in order to hate. In Germany the goal was the reunification of the German people, and the scapegoat if you will was an "infestation" of ethnically impure German Jews, blacks, gypsies, homosexuals, etc.
Sure. But that only undermines your own argument.
I'm not going to try to convince you that Hitler was a Catholic, because it's immaterial. The point is that the Nazi's breed of fascism drew on religious and cultural hatreds that wouldn't have existed were it not for the antisemitism that festered in the Catholic church, who was eager to regain a political and ideological foothold in Europe after its fall from power in the preceding century or so.
That, as Sissyl points out, no Nazi was ever excommunicated for participation in the Holocaust, speaks VOLUMES as to the actual viewpoint of the Catholic church on the subject. A good deal of high ranking Nazis were Catholic and, whether Hitler believed in it or not he went to church and paid lipservice to religion because he knew it was important to kiss the rings of the Catholic church and to convince his people that what he was doing was right in the eyes of god.
True. But there is a difference to being the arm of the right wing in the Catholic church, and the Nazis using old religious hatred to their advantage. The church may have tried to use the Nazis, but were pretty much unsuccesful. Hitler kissing bishop's rings is the equivalent of Sadam Hussein evoking Mohammed. Both had no use for religion beyond using it to gain popularity. The most religious of the Nazi elite, Heinrich Himmler, came up with his own bastarized version of the old Germanic religion with Wodan, Donar, and all that Jazz.
Saul Rubinek is the bomb in Warehouse 13.
I don't know what that is and I didn't know who that was, either, but now that I've googled him, it's nice to put a name to a character actor I've seen a bunch over the years now.
He was the dad in your Trotsky film
I know, I just googled him. :)
How is Comrade Charlotte doing?
So, that took a while. For anyone who's still interested:
** spoiler omitted **...
I'm going to spoiler tag this because it's long...
** spoiler omitted **...
Every one of your responses is either factually incorrect or ridiculously misunderstanding of my points.
Good day, sir.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So, that took a while. For anyone who's still interested:
** spoiler omitted **...
I'm going to spoiler tag this because it's long...
** spoiler omitted **...Every one of your responses is either factually incorrect or ridiculously misunderstanding of my points.
Good day, sir.
Hmmm. I thought that, so far, there was interesting stuff on both sides.
So, I attended my first flash mob yesterday, which I think makes me cool and hip. I'm not sure anymore.
Anyway, in one of those moments of synergistic weirdiosity that I love so much, these guys were occupying a mall's food court and singing Amerindian (or is it Canadindian?) songs and beating on their drums. There was about 50 people participating, an additional 20-30 who joined in, and then an additional 100 people all watching slackjawed and recording with their smartphones.
EDIT: Oh yeah, so they were all holding hands. Now, I am a pretty tall dude for a goblin (6'+), but the guy who was on my left was a f#%*ing giant!!! I felt like I was 6 and holding my dad's hand again.
Anyway, I'm a terrible activist, because most everything makes me cry. Amerindian flash mobs in crappy NH mall food courts singing ancient songs of a defeated people? [Starts sobbing]
HEY GOBBO!
I MADE YOU A MIX TAPE!
[bumple bumple bumple]
Economist on the limits of Keynesianism and how Labor Productivity is going to turn us all into welfare-recipients
Woops. I forgot an important part:
Economist on the limits of Keynsianism and how Labor Productivity is going to turn us all into welfare-recipients [sic] if we're lucky
it should've read.
|
|
So, I attended my first flash mob yesterday, which I think makes me cool and hip. I'm not sure anymore.
Anyway, in one of those moments of synergistic weirdiosity that I love so much, these guys were occupying a mall's food court and singing Amerindian (or is it Canadindian?) songs and beating on their drums. There was about 50 people participating, an additional 20-30 who joined in, and then an additional 100 people all watching slackjawed and recording with their smartphones.
EDIT: Oh yeah, so they were all holding hands. Now, I am a pretty tall dude for a goblin (6'+), but the guy who was on my left was a f%+$ing giant!!! I felt like I was 6 and holding my dad's hand again.
Anyway, I'm a terrible activist, because most everything makes me cry. Amerindian flash mobs in crappy NH mall food courts singing ancient songs of a defeated people? [Starts sobbing]
Up north here it shifts between aboriginal and first nations, and in very particular circumstances indian or status indian (if you are talking about the indian act). Also Inuit and Metis.
While I don't agree with a bunch of views held by various elements of idle no more folks, there is a huge need for reform, and maybe this movement actually gets something done.
So, that took a while. For anyone who's still interested:
** spoiler omitted **...
I'm going to spoiler tag this because it's long...
** spoiler omitted **...Every one of your responses is either factually incorrect or ridiculously misunderstanding of my points.
Good day, sir.
So it is my turn to call you out on your lack of reasoning, now? You could at least point out my alleged mistakes. I might learn something.
[bumple bumple bumple]HEY GOBBO!
I MADE YOU A MIX TAPE!
U likey?
I haven't listened all the way through yet, but I'm groovin', I'm groovin'.
More on Indians and another movie about the evils of the Dominion of Canada:
So it is my turn to call you out on your lack of reasoning, now? You could at least point out my alleged mistakes. I might learn something.So, that took a while. For anyone who's still interested:
** spoiler omitted **...
I'm going to spoiler tag this because it's long...
** spoiler omitted **...Every one of your responses is either factually incorrect or ridiculously misunderstanding of my points.
Good day, sir.
May I be the neutral guy and say that I think you both make some interesting points here?
And I'm refering to the entire conversation, not just that last part.
Obituary for one Vincent Sombrotto whose strike, I'm afraid, I know little about.
[Hats off]
Awww, man... What can I say... If it is any consolation, I am posting in it, so it should die pretty quickly. Anytime now.
/ Sissyl, aka Atropos, cutter of threads
Dear Iomedae, WHY won't this thread just DIE?!
Because Milani can kick her ass.
Vive le Galt!
Dear Iomedae, WHY won't this thread just DIE?!Because Milani can kick her ass.
Vive le Galt!
Also Milani is hotter.
Speaking of which, and, in the spirit of promoting women into high political positions, did you know that an ex-prime minister of the Ukraine is being accused of ordering the murder of members of Parliament?
More importantly, did you know that she is hawt?
/ Sissyl, aka Atropos, cutter of threads
Oh, that's cute, Madame Sissyl. I missed it earlier.
Kind of a Princess Leia vibe with that braid.
Kind of a Princess Leia vibe with that braid.
I'll be in my bunk.
Yulia Tymoshenko has more of a Darth Binks vibe to me...
Speaking of which, and, in the spirit of promoting women into high political positions, did you know that an ex-prime minister of the Ukraine is being accused of ordering the murder of members of Parliament?
More importantly, did you know that she is hawt?
I'd hit it.
I'd hit it.Speaking of which, and, in the spirit of promoting women into high political positions, did you know that an ex-prime minister of the Ukraine is being accused of ordering the murder of members of Parliament?
More importantly, did you know that she is hawt?
In ex-Soviet Ukraine, it hit you!
How long has she been in jail for?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I watched a good portion of this over the weekend--up to the shooting of Zinoviev and Kamenev, the replacement of Yagoda with Yezhov (or was it the other way around) and the suicide of Nadezhda Alliluyeva.
Is it just me or is Robert Duvall just doing a Robert DeNiro impersonation with a Russian accent? Which is funny, because everybody else in the movie is just speaking English...
By the magic of the internet, I have now heard the original version of this song.
Let this thread die already Doodlebug.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Let this thread die already Doodlebug.
He will bury us!!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In ex-Soviet Ukraine, it hit you!I'd hit it.Speaking of which, and, in the spirit of promoting women into high political positions, did you know that an ex-prime minister of the Ukraine is being accused of ordering the murder of members of Parliament?
More importantly, did you know that she is hawt?
This remains relevant to my interests.
Let this thread die already Doodlebug.He will bury us!!
[Shakes shoe]
!!!
Let this thread die already Doodlebug.He will bury us!![Shakes shoe]
!!!
Maybe you should finish up this thread and start a Commies are cool or Reds are rad thread.
You do need a catchy thread title.....
No. This thread is going to go on for ever. Or at least for a while.
Besides, I already have a Commies Are Cool thread. It's called:
Comrade Anklebiter's Fun-Timey Revolutionary Socialism Thread and I keep it hidden in the archives so that it can never get locked.
Until then,
Vive le Galt!
Gobbo, tell me something... Why isn't the right calling it Cultural Stalinism?
That's an interesting question, Madame Sissyl, but first:
(You can click on the trailer yourself. Alas, it doesn't contain any of the scenes where Judy Davis vituperates against the capitalists or sings The Red Flag.
:( )
Gobbo, tell me something... Why isn't the right calling it Cultural Stalinism?
Honestly? Because by doing that you ignore China. The whole point of Cultural Marxism is that you look at a diverse society and say, "This is just as bad as the Cultural Revolution!"
Don't you remember how awesome everything was up until the sixties? No? Well, speaking for the plutocracy, I do.
Taldor shall rise again!
Some non-communist news for y'all
I myself have often wondered about this.