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Is it just me or...


Mythic Adventures Playtest General Discussion


Is it just me or does this rule add on come off as Pathfinder the ANIME . Not that that is a bad per say but the rules read off as a way to make Pc to show up an in episodes of Either Bastard or Slayers If run at the common level and Record of the Lotus War if run at Limited. Dot get me wrong I would love to have my players have a " we have 10000 men and the best castle in the kingdom here" and 5 min later the messenger arrives and announces that the BBE is coming by him self and the whole castle is in fear because they know they are going to die. That and finally having a rule for the " I borrowed 5 sp and must repay it so i can not die no mater how bad it gets rule. I see this as a fun add rule set but i hope it doe not get made part of the PRD or added into Pathfinder Society rules


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I was waiting for somebody to say this.

No. It is not pathfinder the anime. Anime does not own high power. Western superhero stories and the myths that the play test document outright says mythic is based on have similar stuff.

It's just not very down to earth, that's all.


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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No it's not anime.


Anytime something appears high powered, over the top someone screams anime. Get over it. Anime is an art form and not every anime has guys shooting fireballs the size of planets or with swords that may be connected to personal feelings...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Honestly it screamed more myth(ology) to me. Since I think tales of Hercules, Achilles, and similar were around a bit longer than anime...


Or any action movie but with a fantasy flair. Imagine an Andoran gunslinger's daughter was kidnapped and he hunts them down and kills everyone involved in their slave trading, shutting down the entire operation? (Taken)


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I pointed out in this thread that the rules can be used to duplicate Highlander.

Mythic, yes. Anime, no.


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It can be anime if you want it to be anime.

It doesn't have anything that specifically makes it anime, and it barely scratches the surface of the kind of power some anime characters exhibit.

Seriously, nothing in this playtest is nearly as weeaboo as Magus or Ninja.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
drashal wrote:
Is it just me or does this rule add on come off as Pathfinder the ANIME . Not that that is a bad per say but the rules read off as a way to make Pc to show up an in episodes of Either Bastard or Slayers If run at the common level and Record of the Lotus War if run at Limited. Dot get me wrong I would love to have my players have a " we have 10000 men and the best castle in the kingdom here" and 5 min later the messenger arrives and announces that the BBE is coming by him self and the whole castle is in fear because they know they are going to die. That and finally having a rule for the " I borrowed 5 sp and must repay it so i can not die no mater how bad it gets rule. I see this as a fun add rule set but i hope it doe not get made part of the PRD or added into Pathfinder Society rules

Yes and no. Actually the the description sounds more like Bastard!!!, but Slayers, Records of Lodoss War and other anime like this usually try to emulate RPGs (Record of Lodoss War was actually based on D&D and Sword World) so it should be no surprise that there is some overlap.

Of course anime like this usually do a pretty good job to display the BBEG as a total badass, that could actually be something to keep an eye out for mystic games.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

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Another mention of the anime artistic style?

Why does no one ever say, "These rules just scream 18th Century Baroque"?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I think it is fair to say you could model some Anime with these rules. But you would also model much of the old mythology as well. As a tool to make "bigger then life" stories, regardless of their origin, I think this format is wonderful There maybe elements that need tweeking but the overall idea works great.


Feels more Rubenesque to me.


Epic Meepo wrote:

Another mention of the anime artistic style?

Why does no one ever say, "These rules just scream 18th Century Baroque"?

I don't know what this is yet...? :)

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

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GM Kyle wrote:
Epic Meepo wrote:

Another mention of the anime artistic style?

Why does no one ever say, "These rules just scream 18th Century Baroque"?

I don't know what this is yet...? :)

You know what they say. If it's not Baroque, don't fix it!


I still don't get it. :)


Virgil, that was awesome.

And although the first thing I thought when I looked at the playtest document was, "Wow, I wonder if I can find my Hercules and Xena DVDs?", you could easily model a lot of pretty awesome anime with the Mythic rules.

What I'm missing is how that's a bad thing.


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ProximaC wrote:
Virgil, that was awesome.

+1. :)

Quote:

And although the first thing I thought when I looked at the playtest document was, "Wow, I wonder if I can find my Hercules and Xena DVDs?", you could easily model a lot of pretty awesome anime with the Mythic rules.

What I'm missing is how that's a bad thing.

I don't think it is a bad thing at all. What a lot of the posts I have been reading seem to suggest that the GM can create a campaign that has a more cinematic feel to it than traditional Fantasy RPGs. That is something that I have been trying to achieve for most of my time as a DM/GM.

So I think that it is a very good thing.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber

People still use the term 'weeaboo'? How adorable.


I kind of wanted to come in to this thread and get pissed off at how some people get really up-tight about anything that isn't super-realistic medieval Europe or based off the writings of Jack Vance, possibly going into some rage-filled diatribe about how people denounce anything outside of that fighting with sword and magic is "weeaboo" or stuff like psionics too "unrealistic" (because, obviously, Paladins and Eldritch Knights and others don't exist and wizards rampantly violating the laws of physics is totally realistic). I might have included a quip about how people just use anime as a scapegoat because it's popular and that Silver Age Western comic book heroes pulled insane powers out of their asses all the time that make even the crazy-ass feats anime characters sometimes do look like child's play (Superman is the worse offender by far).

But I won't.

No. The Mythic Rules are not anime. If you have a problem with anime, you probably also have a problem with stuff from mythology in general, as that's where the Mythic Rules draw their inspiration from. The heroes from the epics of the ancient world, like Hercules, Orion, and Ulysses, the stuff of legends, the progeny of the divine themselves beyond even what Teiflings and Aasimar can claim.


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You know I just re-read the OP and drashal doesn't say anime is bad. He says that he doesn't believe that it should be core (at least as far as being in the PRD) or part of the PFS. Everyone else here has posted that it is not necessarily anime anymore than it is necessarily any other cinematic or traditional storytelling style. So for most of us, including it wouldn't by necessity add anime to PFS or the PRD.

So is there any real disagreement here? Anybody?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber

My comment wasn't towards the OP.

And I can understand PFS but why ban it from the PRD? It should be available to everyone else, just like the rest of the core rules. The ARG is on the PRD but not PFS. Seems unnecessary.


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Sorry Odraude, meant to say everyone who commented on the OP instead of everyone else who has posted here. My bad.

And yeah, I agree with you. Leaving it out of the PFS seems to make sense. Leaving it out of the PRD makes no sense from where I'm standing.


Odraude wrote:

My comment wasn't towards the OP.

And I can understand PFS but why ban it from the PRD? It should be available to everyone else, just like the rest of the core rules. The ARG is on the PRD but not PFS. Seems unnecessary.

the ARG adds a rule set to help DMs make upgraded monsters in a coherent manor where as Mythic adds too much power gaming into the mix if alowed as core rules

Currently most DMs I know and have contact with allow any thing from the PRD , but restrict any thing from other sources on a as needed biases. put mythic into the PRD means I have to go in and restrict sections of it. Which means potential arguments form players. ( I admit, I am just trying to cut down on my headaches but hey i can wish)

AS for the Anime is bad line ,I never said that as an fan boy I love anime , I just stated that the style of the rules comes off as very anime or wire-fu. I am not seeing a lot of western heroics in the way the rules read but that is my opinion, and I may be missing something


Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber
drashal wrote:
Odraude wrote:

My comment wasn't towards the OP.

And I can understand PFS but why ban it from the PRD? It should be available to everyone else, just like the rest of the core rules. The ARG is on the PRD but not PFS. Seems unnecessary.

the ARG adds a rule set to help DMs make upgraded monsters in a coherent manor where as Mythic adds too much power gaming into the mix if alowed as core rules

Currently most DMs I know and have contact with allow any thing from the PRD , but restrict any thing from other sources on a as needed biases. put mythic into the PRD means I have to go in and restrict sections of it. Which means potential arguments form players. ( I admit, I am just trying to cut down on my headaches but hey i can wish)

AS for the Anime is bad line ,I never said that as an fan boy I love anime , I just stated that the style of the rules comes off as very anime or wire-fu. I am not seeing a lot of western heroics in the way the rules read but that is my opinion, and I may be missing something

Like firearms, the mythic rules specifically will call out that it's not for every campaign and the playtest itself has examples of campaigns where the PCs won't even have mythic tiers. And to be completely honest, it's not hard to say "Everything on the PFSRD except Mythic Adventures is allowed." I can imagine the good people at the d20pfsrd will give Mythic its own section.

And unlike what seems be the popular belief on these forums, most players are actually nice, accommodating adults that don't throw tantrums when a GM says no to something. And even if you have a player that would do that, one has to wonder why anyone would play with them in the first place. It's not as big of a headache as you really think, believe me. :)


drashal wrote:
Currently most DMs I know and have contact with allow any thing from the PRD , but restrict any thing from other sources on a as needed biases. put mythic into the PRD means I have to go in and restrict sections of it. Which means potential arguments form players. ( I admit, I am just trying to cut down on my headaches but hey i can wish)

Here's the thing, though; the Mythic rules, like the Race Building guidelines, specifically require the DM to introduce them, in this case in the form of an ascension, so if the DM doesn't want to use mythic rules, they won't be in the game.


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The GM decides on the Moment of Ascension. The GM decides what constitutes a Greater Trial. The GM is in complete control of when a PC gains a Mythic Tier or whether he gets one at all.


drashal wrote:
Currently most DMs I know and have contact with allow any thing from the PRD , but restrict any thing from other sources on a as needed biases. put mythic into the PRD means I have to go in and restrict sections of it. Which means potential arguments form players. ( I admit, I am just trying to cut down on my headaches but hey i can wish)

Here's the thing, you don't actually need to disallow it. You just don't give them mythic tiers.

Just like how 9th level spell scrolls are legal at level 1, but if the GM doesn't give them to you it doesn't matter.


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drashal wrote:
Mythic adds too much power gaming into the mix if alowed as core rules

It is literally impossible to add power gaming to the rules. You haven't thought this through at all.

Telling a different style of story in which both the heroes and the challenges are stronger has nothing to do with power gaming. You can power game as easily in low-power games as in high.
Power gaming is a competitive attitude or a sense of entitlement that spoils the enjoyment of your group. It's the desire for more power getting prioritised over consideration and the spirit of the game, not the possession of lots of power.

drashal wrote:
put mythic into the PRD means I have to go in and restrict sections of it. Which means potential arguments form players. ( I admit, I am just trying to cut down on my headaches but hey i can wish)

But pit fiends and level 9 characters are both in the PRD. Everybody already understands that you don't get to start as a high challenge rating creature with a bunch of extra powers for free.

Anyway, you can't start the game as a mythic character. You have to have your moment of commencement to get the first mythic tier, which can only happen if the GM gives it to you. There are not mythic character creation rules, only rules for becoming mythic.
Only mythic characters who you've given a mythic tier can take mythic feats etc, so there's no danger of any mythic content ever affecting your game unless you let it.

drashal wrote:
I am not seeing a lot of western heroics in the way the rules read but that is my opinion, and I may be missing something

Dude, you need to brush up on your western heroics. Trust me.

Beowulf holds his breath for days.
Thor lifted a serpent so big it could wrap around the world.
Samson tore a building down with his hands.
Cú Chulainn got so angry his head caught fire, was so good with a sword that he killed somebody even after he was dead and was so strong he could beat grown men to death from the age of 12.
Heracles lifted the sky.
Vidar broke the jaws a wolf who was bigger than the earth.
Achilles was completely invulnerable except for his one secret weak point.
And that's just western stories of feats of strength and stamina which are over a thousand years old that I can think of off the top of my head.

Mythic is absolutely inspired by mythology, most of it from the west as far as I can tell. The heroics of eastern mythology do tend to have a similar tone and tons of anime is inspired by that, so maybe that's what you're seeing?
But come on, it's not like the play test document is full of rules for robots powered by manliness, hot springs breaks, magical outfit transformations or cutting buildings in half with your chi.


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Forget even Mythology.

Dat anime.

Mortuum wrote:
cutting buildings in half with your chi.

I prefer cutting buildings in half with my Key.


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If Problem Sleuth has taught me anything, it's that keys are for blowing holes through doors and any poor fools who dare to stand behind them.


Funny, these rules don't make me at all think of Macross or Tenchi Muyo or Bleach or Haruhi Suzumiya or Pokemon or Noir or Read or Die or Sailor Moon or Boys Will Be Flowers...

Maybe... maybe... Excel Saga. ;) (Is "Constantly Bleeding to Death" a Mythic Flaw? (The immortality makes it impermanent, see.))

Another person noted this, but I also feel it's worth repeating, Slayers and Lodoss War were originally based on D&D and other fantasy RPGs, not the other way around.

I find it confounding and frustrating that anything out of certain fantasy game "comfort zones" get described as "anime" when they mean entirely something else that has often little to do with cartoons made in Japan.

Anyway, reading through the mythic playtest myself, the first thing I thought of were actual mythical heroes like Heracles (the rage flaw in particular made me think of him) and Achilles, and the second were stories inspired--made by many writers from many countries--by mythical heroes, such as, for a lighter-hearted example, Xena. Or Rynjin's stellar example of a modern mythic hero, for one.

Mortuum has a good point that if there are similarities, it comes from the mythology that inspires modern day "mythic" stories -- Japanese folktales certainly contain many a mythic hero (as most myths do, per the definition).

I think Paizo did a really good job of reflecting what "mythic" should mean and how it should work mechanically, at least on my first, brief glance that I have had.

Reading through the rules, my first thought was to design a world in my head based on Greek mythology to run a game about god-blessed heroes in a sword and sandals type world.


drashal wrote:
Odraude wrote:

My comment wasn't towards the OP.

And I can understand PFS but why ban it from the PRD? It should be available to everyone else, just like the rest of the core rules. The ARG is on the PRD but not PFS. Seems unnecessary.

the ARG adds a rule set to help DMs make upgraded monsters in a coherent manor where as Mythic adds too much power gaming into the mix if alowed as core rules

Currently most DMs I know and have contact with allow any thing from the PRD , but restrict any thing from other sources on a as needed biases. put mythic into the PRD means I have to go in and restrict sections of it. Which means potential arguments form players. ( I admit, I am just trying to cut down on my headaches but hey i can wish)

Giving characters access to Mythic benefits is strictly by GM fiat. The only argument you have to make is "sorry, but I don't plan on letting your PCs go mythic in this campaign, it simply doesn't fit with what I have in mind". Any sane player will respect that.

drashal wrote:
AS for the Anime is bad line ,I never said that as an fan boy I love anime , I just stated that the style of the rules comes off as very anime or wire-fu. I am not seeing a lot of western heroics in the way the rules read but that is my opinion, and I may be missing something

What you're missing is a giant panoply of European mythic heroes who performed clearly inhuman feats, sparred with gods, fiends and beasts and earned eternal glory, as evidenced by us modern people still remembering their names and retelling their stories. The biggest difference between myth and shonen manga is the propensity of the latter to have glowing "battle auras" and the like, something less common in western stories (but happening nevertheless - see Christian saints and their halos).

You can totally run a DBZ or Bleach campaign with Mythic rules if you're so inclined. You can also run Clash of the Titans, Ragnarok, or Knights of the Round Table with it. As usual, some classes, feats, powers and mythic abilities will be more suited for some of these stories than for others, because ultimately Mythic is neither anime nor Western myth - it's what passes as myth in Golarion, Toril, Krynn and other worlds of sword and sorcery.


Most Anime just happens to run on mythic logic (Demi-godlike power for the heroes, and the rest are mooks).

I imagine that even lesser gods could theoretically work as Mythic tier Heroes with some... Perks. Such as having Domains that use double their Tier as their effective Cleric level. With the Domain spells being "At will" stuff.

Edit: And by point two, tying that back to Anime... Anime does tend to have a lot of Physical gods doing stuff.

Osirion

Mythic Adventures feels like Exalted (White Wolf) but for D20. As a GM I had a blast running Exalted because the adventures started the game as demigods. This allowed for more exciting games right from the get-go. I enjoyed Exalted a great deal, but I doubt I would play the D20 version.

Taldor

How can you know without even trying?


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gilgamesh is the most anime thing i ever read omg enkidu is such a yaoi


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The main character is always badass. Look at the Mass Effect series. Why is Shepard and two friends able to single-handedly fight there way through an army of trained mercenaries? Because Shepard is a badass.

Or, take the Chronicles of Riddick series. Why is Richard B. Riddick the only person in history to escape from Butcher Bay? How did he survive the events of Pitch Black and Chronicles of Riddick? How did he kill every single bounty hunter that ever came after him and not get caught until Toombs captured him by taking a little girl hostage and demanding he surrender or she'd be added to his murders (yes, that's how Toombs captured him when he got sent to Butcher Bay... it's in the special features of the Pitch Black Collector's Edition. Most of Riddick's so called murders were bounty hunters or such trying to take him down for the rest of the murders he was framed for.) Because he's Riddick, he's a badass (and not nearly as evil as he thinks he is, he surrendered and went to prison rather than let Toombs kill an innocent little girl. That's not something he would have done if he was truly as evil as they say he is. The novelization of Pitch Black tells his backstory, about how he was a corporate whistle-blower and so they killed all the workers and framed him. He then realized survival and freedom mattered more than "the right thing" because doing "the right thing" got him into this mess.)

Last example, Milla Jovovich's movie Ultraviolet. Sure, she's essentially a vampire, but she's a badass way beyond any of the other vampires in the movie. Like Shepard, or Riddick. Cause she's the PC.

They are just one person. One person that can take on an army of 10,000 single-handedly.

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