Can Mythic Adventures be used to extend "the sweet spot" of levels 5 to 9? Where PCs are durable but not omnipotent?
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I'd say its a question of where you see the sweet spot... think about it: a single Mythic Rank, while not a traditional class level, gives a character plenty of more oomph!.
Lets say you have a party of level-6 characters, and you give all of them a mythic rank after a great adventure. Suddenly they all have a mythic feat (if they qualify), stabilize automatically, die at twice negative CON score, and have mythic power to fuel their mythic path or get 1d6 to any d20 rolls. And now they get the powers of their chosen mythic path on top of that. Depending on their respective class levels, this is most likely a much bigger increase in mechanical power than any new class level would have offered to these characters.
However, it you look at it from the other side, mythic monsters or mythic enemies could extend the "sweet spot" quite a bit, because they can endure much more of what the players throw at them.
Like I said, its likely a question of where you see the sweet spot being. Some people say if invisibility and fly start becoming available on a regular, not-expensive base, your game made the switch to the next level. Others say differently. But it should be worth giving Mythic Adventures a shot to see how it really affects gameplay between level 5-9.
I do not see Mythic tiers extending the sweet spot at all. I would just as soon switch to the Slow XP track for levels 6-10.
Mythic, as far as I've seen, seem to generally make people far better at what they do, and also make them much more tough.
I haven't read through all abilities yet, but it doesn't seem Mythic give that much _new_ abilities until quite high tiers.
So it really depends on what you want from the "sweet spot".
If you find the "superhuman" part of getting to high levels most problematic - like being able to shrug off a dozen trained warriors without any issues at all, surviving a 200 ft fall with no major injuries and so on - then applying Mythic tiers will break it for you.
If you find the increased access to campaign-changing magic, like teleportation, wall of stone and overland flight the most problematic, applying mythic tiers might work.
A class 6/mythic 3 party will be an incredibly powerful, capable of taking on high-CR encounters that a class 9 party might not, but a class 9 has quite easy access to teleport, raise dead and such spells which change the campaign in other ways.
So it depends.
Consider that mythic rules could let you start your campaign at say level 8, but have no character level progression only mythic progression for the duration of the campaign.
I also think mythic would make playing monsterous PC's easier along side normal PC's
I think Mythic can viably replace the additional feats for E6, at least. In fact, I think that it has definite potential in the E6/E8 space, at least depending what you want out of them.
A friend is pushing me to run something, anything, so he can play (as well as DM); I told him I would look at it, and currently I'm looking at Mythic as a way to avoid totally reworking Serpent's Skull for an E8-designed setting. I'm not certain yet, but I'm leaning that way, especially as it should reduce the amount of rebuilding & rewriting that would be required.
Neat!
I need to get a group together again, too. I'm PbPing right now, and it's a whole different ballgame than actual tabletop fun.
Consider that mythic rules could let you start your campaign at say level 8, but have no character level progression only mythic progression for the duration of the campaign.
I also think mythic would make playing monsterous PC's easier along side normal PC's
crucify me, but, in my campaigns i change the monsters cr for class level without nothing, just to give them the option for be thouger at all. and since i prefeer Gestalt to my players, then, theres no problem with it.
and now a monster with hd, and equal cr to class level and now a tier... so awesome!!
for those guys asking for epic... theres a set of rules that allows epic from little red goblin in legendary level, so, if they want it, they can now reach 30th levels, plus 10 tiers. so whats the problem?
i dont like epic ones, and tier options need more options and rebalance. that +20 to skill checks makes ridiculous the attempt at all
better jason would say: "with an epic feat youve always succeed a skill check"
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i dont like epic ones, and tier options need more options and rebalance. that +20 to skill checks makes ridiculous the attempt at all
better jason would say: "with an epic feat youve always succeed a skill check"
If you auto-pass Perception checks and I auto-pass Stealth checks, can you see me?
If you auto-pass Intimidate checks and demoralize, for how many rounds is the victim shaken?
If you auto-pass Bluff checks and tell me I shouldn't breathe, do I die?
There are very good mechanical reasons to make it a very large bonus instead of a "you always succeed".
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also, "always succeed a skill check" means I can jump to the moon (though I'd die of old age before I reached it, unless maaaaybe an elven monk).
+20 to rolls means you can autosucceed most mundane tasks. It means an untrained person can climb a standard city wall (DC30) if not stressed, but risk falling if someone's shooting at it at the same time. It means an untrained person can safely move along the reiling at full speed of a boat in a storm, but not if it's also raining.
For a trained person, you can do even more awesome stuff. But it's not "autosucceed".
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This is one of the first things I started wondering about the Mythic rules when they came out. I think, functionally, it'll work well.
It'll create a different sort of setting than normal E6, though. Where normal E6 keeps the world coherent with threats being consistent across levels, M6 breaks that open.
I imagine the end result looking, appropriately, a lot like old myths. Mortals have a fairly low power cap, but gods and heroes walk the world as something more than mortal.
Cheers!
Landon
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Mythic adds a new layer to the characters. An almost free multiclass of advanced options. I LOVE this concept. I'd like to see perhaps career classes that layer on top of Standard classes with grittier options that add complexity with out adding number bloat.
But that's a product of a different flavor.
E6 is designed around keeping the bonuses smaller compared to the d20, and to truncate "game-breaker" things (such as 4th level spells and higher, etc).
Mythic seems like it would give that occasional oomph, but keep the overall bonus itself low, and doesn't seem to grant extended higher level access to things than it did before.
It would definitely change the gameplay, which is obviously the intent of Mythic rules, however on first glance it looks like it could work. The game would change from playing Perseus to playing Hercules, but it would still have that E6 feel.
If you auto-pass Perception checks and I auto-pass Stealth checks, can you see me?
never can be always since you need to spend a mythic point
If you auto-pass Intimidate checks and demoralize, for how many rounds is the victim shaken?
but whats happen to the always succedeed oposite check from the victim?
If you auto-pass Bluff checks and tell me I shouldn't breathe, do I die?
and if i always pass my sense motive
There are very good mechanical reasons to make it a very large bonus instead of a "you always succeed"
thats exactly the point!!
theres no need for a +20 in a check, neither the d6 dice rolling with d20.
supose i use action points, and this mythic points, so i need to track in the air a dragon, who passes some time ago (dc30) i have d20+2d6 (but if im searching for a dragon, mayebe im at least d8 mythic use so: d20+d8+d6 to the roll... and then the party helps with a +2, and then im a ranger and dragon´s favored enemy +6, and skill focus +6, and... oh yes my wis mod... say it at +2)
those rols sets for a middle d20 (10), d8 (4), d6 (3)=33!!!
and in next six months paizo will bringout a rule which add a d4 to the d20, and at some point we are dropping all the set of dices to make a check (d2, d3, d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20, d100)... did i hit you with my 165 check?
yes?... two hours later... now i rol my damage my sneak attack lvl 20 (10d6) plus d4/d6/d2/d3/d8/d10/d12/d20/d100, plus +5 magic to the weapon, and my str +2. +d6 rapier of bane and a lot of fruits total +4d6 to the damage: 258 hp damage, if you still there, i use another mythic ppoint to sneak again... 258... phewwwww a lot of issues
so, i guess the d6/8/10/12 dice bonuses must not apply to the d20.
my proposal: the mythic tier rank is added to all youre checks and let the points usable for path abilities:
tier 1 = +1 all the checks, as a mythic bonus (attk, dmg, ac, cmb, cmd, saves, skills, etc.)
mythic in this case, are nonense at all...
i mean, are good idea, but the overpower must be more romantic, like an scalibur from arthur mythic, someone can say what´s exactly scalibur do, besides that only was a magic blade?
and dont say silly pluses like: "it was a +5 longsword/bastard/great/short/paper"
awckward...
i mean, are good idea, but the overpower must be more romantic, like an scalibur from arthur mythic, someone can say what´s exactly scalibur do, besides that only was a magic blade?
Annoy the living daylights out of everyone. Oh, you mean in Arthurian legend? It sunders armor and blinds some people once.
Judas, so if I understand you correctly (and I'm not sure I do), your biggest concern with adding large bonuses is that "it may start off reasonable now, but Paizo will eventually keep adding new powers and greater bonuses to the game until characters are adding +9000" or +165 as you put it. Is that the case?
If it is, you may want to familiarize yourself with Paizo's design goals. If the last 5 years are any indication, I don't think that's going to happen. If anything, they've shown that they may add to a rules set (in this case Mythic) through horizontal expansion of options but they have yet to supplement any of their systems with vertical expansions. Heck, even Mythic is a lateral and horizontal expansion of the base rules rather than an Epic-equivalent vertical expansion.
Now I will grant you this, if Paizo suddenly has an aneurysm or develops a corporate entity version of a brain tumor then, yes, this could become an issue. Which is why it's important for a company, once it turns 10 years old, to start getting yearly physicals. You want to catch that sort of stuff early.
Judas, so if I understand you correctly (and I'm not sure I do), your biggest concern with adding large bonuses is that "it may start off reasonable now, but Paizo will eventually keep adding new powers and greater bonuses to the game until characters are adding +9000" or +165 as you put it. Is that the case?
If it is, you may want to familiarize yourself with Paizo's design goals. If the last 5 years are any indication, I don't think that's going to happen. If anything, they've shown that they may add to a rules set (in this case Mythic) through horizontal expansion of options but they have yet to supplement any of their systems with vertical expansions. Heck, even Mythic is a lateral and horizontal expansion of the base rules rather than an Epic-equivalent vertical expansion.
Now I will grant you this, if Paizo suddenly has an aneurysm or develops a corporate entity version of a brain tumor then, yes, this could become an issue. Which is why it's important for a company, once it turns 10 years old, to start getting yearly physicals. You want to catch that sort of stuff early.
Sorry for my english writings, im rusty with. so, yes, i know the fact that mythic is an option for an epic... i never like epic levels. but in my campaigns i always give to the characters one or two abilities from other classes, as a achievement and history tematic ones... (example: they save the kingdom, then the kingdom claim them as knights, so, besides theyre actualy level, they add the special abilities from the knight) or something else...
i do love PFRPG, and most of its rules sets for every ap, but the mechanics since 3.0 are broken, then, we need to do more demanding
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From what I can see, the Mythic rules are primarily designed to let your characters "punch" a few levels above their actual level, but without quite as much mechanical complexity as if they had actually gained those levels.
E.g. "fighting like a 6th-level character, in a 3rd-level package!"
I hadn't quite thought that through before, but I think you're right. And, wow, does that make Mythic rules awesome.
Cheers!
Landon
No need to apologize for your English, Judas. I can't speak any other languages so I can't say much.
No need to apologize for your English, Judas. I can't speak any other languages so I can't say much.
thanks for that, im mexican and speak spanish obviously, but i learn english speaking with people from others countries, then i begin lovin´languages, so now i speak french and italian too... but i forgot much of how writting in english now...
about the mythic rule: i see the dual path feat, thats was pretty but... its really necesary one?
we at my table are planning to test the mythic with an ap carrion crown... but, its worthy at all?
i mean, my players are so confident with all the rules i put on the table as dm... (paizos caravan, ships, campal combat, eye & patches critical effect when they roll a 20 and then confirm with other 20 roll, the critical fumble cards, the trust points, and we start with sanity points from the beggining, because theyre actually knows that dinamic, and background traits at a rate of 1 background trait and 2 traits at will from others tables [with the traits, we realyze owns options, and bring the game the options from iron heroes traits too] we has a character sheet so fat in atributes, actualy i use the vitality option more like sw wounds, and i make the potion rules from the witcher games then toxicity is another atribute)... gestalt classes too, and at the end of every point i gave them one or two abilities from other classes, and change the skill options for other more like in the vampire dark ages system... more specific one. and very customizable characters... i mean, at first level u set 13/9/5 skill points into three skill trees, Talents, Techniques and knowledges and any rank after 1st level to one skill cost it total rank x2
my players love all those rules, so thinking in the part where i let them has some abilitie from other class, this tier mythic fits with it, but with the options we watch them and say: "its too much overpower with non-sense" and they ask me for fix it for something more usable and less overpower... but we still dont try those... so we need to test them
the only rules we dont like were: action points and this rules are filled with...
i was wondering: some of you guys knows how to create pdf´s character sheets, can one of u help me and teach me how can i create one?