Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PFS Ruling on Beastmaster


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Shadow Lodge ****

So the beastmaster archtype of the Ranger states that one can level up a couple of animal companions at a time. So as a small sized ranger i was going to have a level 1 roc, with a wolly rhino doing rhino things. The problem lies could i use my roc as a mount during combat and have my rhino doing rhino things?

In the FAQ on a paizo website it says,

During the course of a scenario, you may have one combat animal and as many noncombat animals as you like. Noncombat animals (ponies, horses, pet dogs, and so on) cannot participate in combat at all. If you have so many noncombat animals that their presence is slowing a session down, the GM has the right to ask you to select one noncombat animal and leave the rest behind. A summoner's eidolon is considered an animal companion for the purposes of counting combat and noncombat animals. If you have more than one class-granted animal companion (or eidolon), you must choose which will be considered the combat animal at the start of the scenario. In general, a mount, a familiar or mundane pet, and your class-granted animal(s) are acceptable, but more than that can be disruptive.

A GM buddy of mine says that it wouldnt work because as soon as my ranger took part in combat the roc would be considered a combat mount, though the roc would act as a fly bot.

I wanted a couple more opinions on this before i forgo this character path!

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

Yeah, you might get a few GM's that would let that slide, but the vast majority are gonna say no to the flybot. A non-combat animal has to be completely out of the scene. A flybot is clearly participating even if all it does is serve as your platform.

Liberty's Edge *****

Nope, mounts are your combat animal

***

read the last sentence carefully.

Quote:
In general, a mount, a familiar or mundane pet, and your class-granted animal(s) are acceptable, but more than that can be disruptive.

rhino is your AC, roc is your mount.

i have always read this as AND meaning multiple. you can have a mount AND familiar/mundane pet AND animal companion/eidolon. assuming the point of the rule was to limit how long people's turns were, and not buying hoards of guard dogs each adventure just to block charge lanes.

i mean why would beastmaster even be allowed in organized play, if the case were to ban having more than 2 miniatures on the map, ever? is it really worse than a summoner summoning something every turn?

i have a similar character (sylvan sorcerer with eldritch heritage) that uses both an animal companion and familiar in combat. (although the familiar doesn't do much other than be backup if anyone dies, she is an improved familiar who is on constant delay). according to the last sentence both should be allowed.

*

dot

Grand Lodge **

asthyril wrote:

read the last sentence carefully.

Quote:
In general, a mount, a familiar or mundane pet, and your class-granted animal(s) are acceptable, but more than that can be disruptive.

rhino is your AC, roc is your mount.

i have always read this as AND meaning multiple. you can have a mount AND familiar/mundane pet AND animal companion/eidolon. assuming the point of the rule was to limit how long people's turns were, and not buying hoards of guard dogs each adventure just to block charge lanes.

How many animals can I have at any given time?

It could be better organised, but the last sentence clarifies how many non-combat animals you can bring along before simply describing them and their hijinks takes significant time away from other players. You may have one combat animal (that appears on the grid and has any mechanical effect in combat) plus summons.

*

The FAQ seems pretty clear. It's hard to argue with that last line. But that last line is in regards to how many Comat + non-combat animals you can have. What it doesn't say though is that you can have all of those things in combat.

In fact the FAQ says the opposite: "Noncombat animals (ponies, horses, pet dogs, and so on) cannot participate in combat at all."

I would say that you can have a mount and an animal companion but you can not gain any mechanical effect from the mount in combat. I.e. You must get off your mount when in combat.

So I would rule, even after reading the FAQ, that you can fly around on your Roc but when combat starts you must dismount the Roc and act as if the Roc didn't exist. The goal is that you can only gain a mechanical effect during combat from one animal companion / familiar / mount. Being mounted and gaining the ability to fly, move faster than normal, move and take a full-round action are all mechanical effects.

*

So, how about a Summoner/Diabolist? They have an Eidolon and an Imp companion, does that break the rules?

Both level up and are quite nasty in combat, the imp more than you would think.

FAQ wrote:

How many animals can I have at any given time?

During the course of a scenario, you may have one combat animal and as many noncombat animals as you like. Noncombat animals (ponies, horses, pet dogs, and so on) cannot participate in combat at all. If you have so many noncombat animals that their presence is slowing a session down, the GM has the right to ask you to select one noncombat animal and leave the rest behind. A summoner's eidolon is considered an animal companion for the purposes of counting combat and noncombat animals. If you have more than one class-granted animal companion (or eidolon), you must choose which will be considered the combat animal at the start of the scenario. In general, a mount, a familiar or mundane pet, and your class-granted animal(s) are acceptable, but more than that can be disruptive.

Players are going to focus on the last sentence, but does that override the first sentence?

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Of the two sentences you mention, only one of them uses the qualifier "in general".

*

Jiggy wrote:
Of the two sentences you mention, only one of them uses the qualifier "in general".

True, and looking closely, the Imp is a companion for the Diabolist.

So I guess that answers that question.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

IF the animal does anything more than function as a decorative feature, it counts as your combat animal.

***

of that entire FAQ statement, the only thing it mentions as combat animals are animal companions and eidolons. i read that last line as allowing both a familiar and a animal companion (or eidolon) on the map simultaneously.

to me that FAQ simply regulates the amount of animal companions and eidolons you can have on the map, plus the amount of guard dogs (or whatever)you bought from UE.

LazarX wrote:
IF the animal does anything more than function as a decorative feature, it counts as your combat animal.

i'm sorry but that is your own definition of a combat animal, not the FAQs. the FAQ only references animal companions and eidolons as combat animals. it does not include familiars.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Illinois—Decatur aka TwilightKnight

Speaking as a Venture-Captain, and having been involved in some of the conversations regarding this issue in the past, and assuming that our leadership's position has not changed, you can only have one combat eligible companion-creature active for any given scenario. You are free to bring along all the purchased creatures, familiars, companion-creatures, etc. as you wish, but they all essentially disappear when initiative is rolled.

This could create some very unusual and challenging situations for the GM to adjudicate in the case of enemy surprise vs. the PCs, etc. Please take that into account when you are building your companion-based character. There will be table variation on how the GM rules in real-time and YOU are the one creating a potentially adversarial situation by knowingly pushing the limits of what the rules (including FAQ) indicate. I'm not saying you can't do it, just be prepared for the ramifications of your decisions and don't be mad when the GM rules against you. Try to remember that PFS is not about YOU having fun, it is about US having fun together.

Explore! Report! Cooperate!

BTW, @ asthyril, while the Beastmaster cannot fully employ the archetype's abilities due to the combat-animal restrictions, it still provides a wider selection of animal choices for the ranger, so there is some benefit to choosing it.

Shadow Lodge ***

i think your best bet is to

1) Just use the beastmasters ability to snag any critter they want rather than being stuck with the list

2) to get the most out of two critters when you hit the high levels and they both function at about yoru HD would be to get a flyer and have it scouting above the party and the other as a combat pet.

Silver Crusade *

Bob, I've got a question for you and the other venture officers, If a master summoner can have his Eiladon and summon 4 frilled lizards at tier 8-9 why should a beast master be limited to one combat animal? The Master summoner also can dismiss his Eiladon and then recall it with markers mark and have the Eiladon be agumented. This is alot stronger than a Ranger/Beastmaster having two AC's one the board at the same time
even if both the AC's have Boon Companion.

I can see from a GM's POV why the number of AC's is limited but from a players POV the comparsion above is definently in the Master Summoners favor and needs to be addressed in some way. Cna I get your oppion and feedback. Thanks

Shadow Lodge ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lou Diamond wrote:

Bob, I've got a question for you and the other venture officers, If a master summoner can have his Eiladon and summon 4 frilled lizards at tier 8-9 why should a beast master be limited to one combat animal? The Master summoner also can dismiss his Eiladon and then recall it with markers mark and have the Eiladon be agumented. This is alot stronger than a Ranger/Beastmaster having two AC's one the board at the same time

even if both the AC's have Boon Companion.

I can see from a GM's POV why the number of AC's is limited but from a players POV the comparsion above is definently in the Master Summoners favor and needs to be addressed in some way. Cna I get your oppion and feedback. Thanks

That would be a major reason they banhammered the master summoner.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Society® / General Discussion / PFS Ruling on Beastmaster All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.