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RPG Superstar 2015

A few concerns with mythic rules


Mythic Adventures Playtest General Discussion


The document is generally great, but here are a few concerns:

  • Swift/Immediate bloat: unless you are a straight fighter or rouge the you can use your Mythic power without blocking your class abilities. Got this problem with my dualcursed orace of battle
  • Ability score increases: your Mythic power depends on highest stat, wich is probably your attack or casting stat, so there is little reason to ever increase any other stat.
  • Attack, AC, saves lagging: even if your attack bonuses and DCs increases with the stat increments, your saving throws, caster level and AC doesn't while monsters does, meaning that you have to reserve your mythic power to pass the DCs of the monsters attack because your saves can keep up. You need mythic power to pass the ever increasing SRs. Mythic power to modify your rolls is not a boon when you are required to use it against every foe.
  • Named bonuses: having insight bonuses make the mythic power less useful for classes who already use them, like the Archivist.

Suggested, possible solutions:

  • Limit them to once per round actions/ encounter (IE: once per round you can use your mythic to increase the result of a d20) like the uses of hero points
  • Make stats increase like the Fighter's weapon training
  • Have every so tiers grant a bonus to AC, Attack and saves and every tier grant a competence bonus to caster level checks against monsters SR.
  • Make those bonuses untyped, or call them mythic.

Humbly,
Yawar

Scarab Sages Contributor , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I don't like mythic flaws. Why have them? They don't balance out mythic power, and high level characters are very conceptual in nature, so players won't want their high level ideas hampered by a persistent mechanical flaw.

My very first real feedback about the system is huck them. I'm totally willing to choke it back if Jason or someone else tells me what they're good for.

Scarab Sages Contributor , Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

I'm not the biggest fan of the immediate increase in power level. Suppose an eighth level character gains his second mythic tier. Now he goes first and twice?

I think I prefer a mythic game to be more powerful in scope, but that all the challenges not be mythic. Mythic initiative and a few other early gains seem to force more and more epic challenges into view. We'll find out over the playtest.


They're already evaluating options to the initiative boost so I didn't post it as a concern.


YawarFiesta wrote:

The document is generally great, but here are a few concerns:

  • Swift/Immediate bloat: unless you are a straight fighter or rouge the you can use your Mythic power without blocking your class abilities. Got this problem with my dualcursed orace of battle
  • Ability score increases: your Mythic power depends on highest stat, wich is probably your attack or casting stat, so there is little reason to ever increase any other stat.
  • Attack, AC, saves lagging: even if your attack bonuses and DCs increases with the stat increments, your saving throws, caster level and AC doesn't while monsters does, meaning that you have to reserve your mythic power to pass the DCs of the monsters attack because your saves can keep up. You need mythic power to pass the ever increasing SRs. Mythic power to modify your rolls is not a boon when you are required to use it against every foe.
  • Named bonuses: having insight bonuses make the mythic power less useful for classes who already use them, like the Archivist.

Suggested, possible solutions:

  • Limit them to once per round actions/ encounter (IE: once per round you can use your mythic to increase the result of a d20) like the uses of hero points
  • Make stats increase like the Fighter's weapon training
  • Have every so tiers grant a bonus to AC, Attack and saves and every tier grant a competence bonus to caster level checks against monsters SR.
  • Make those bonuses untyped, or call them mythic.

Humbly,
Yawar

There are many reasons to advance other stats other than the one you get your mythic power from especially when playing classes like Alchemists, Magi, Monks who are MAD. Your original class is still more important than your Mythic Tier.


Realmwalker wrote:


There are many reasons to advance other stats other than the one you get your mythic power from especially when playing classes like Alchemists, Magi, Monks who are MAD. Your original class is still more important than your Mythic Tier.

Yes, but read point 3. Since your DCs and attack bonuses don't rise per see with your mythic tier, you are forced to rise your attack, DC or casting stat to keep up with the ever increasing saves and AC of your foes.

Humbly,
Yawar


* I don't really think you need to change the attribute bonus.
* I like the AC, Saves, CL increase by Mythic Tier, or at least have Mythic Paths that would do this.
* Mythic typed bonuses sound like a very good idea.


Realmwalker wrote:

* I don't really think you need to change the attribute bonus.

* I like the AC, Saves, CL increase by Mythic Tier, or at least have Mythic Paths that would do this.
* Mythic typed bonuses sound like a very good idea.

One of the main reasons I propose the weapon training like stat bonuses is beause its fair for all classes.

Think of a class that has an ability with a DC that doesn't depend on your main (attack) stat, like monk, antipaladin or assasin. That class would have spread their stats between its attack stats and its DC stat, resulting in in a lower main stat.

Now think of class that depends on only one stat, like the cavalier. The cavalier, starts with more strenght than the monk so he is more likely to hit than the monk.

If the monk splits between STR and WIS the gap in accuarcy between him and the cavalier will widen and the DCs for stunninf fist won't raisr fast enough to keep up with monsters (he won't keep up unless solely in WIS).

Now imagine that every two Mythic Tiers raises DCs by 1 of every, now the monk can focus on mainly on STR and his Stunning Fist would keep up and the fighter gains nothing, but if the monk chooses to focus on wisdom then the DCs would be too high (exagerating). Also, DCs of a witch's hexes would be incedibly high.

Now if the the stat rise as the fighter weapon training a monk could focus on any without ignoring the other and the fighter is happy because of the extra CON.

Humbly,
Yawar


Just throwing my concerns up here.
After a playtest of 3 adventures with only 1 mythic tier, we discovered that non-mythic creatures and npcs basically can't kill someone with mythic toughness. The DR10/Epic and requiring triple their Constitution as negative hit points to die, plus the champion's ability to stay up and fighting past zero HP was ridiculous. It was less noticeable at higher levels, but at level 5 it was still a problem. Anyone else feel this way?


Morganstern wrote:

Just throwing my concerns up here.

After a playtest of 3 adventures with only 1 mythic tier, we discovered that non-mythic creatures and npcs basically can't kill someone with mythic toughness. The DR10/Epic and requiring triple their Constitution as negative hit points to die, plus the champion's ability to stay up and fighting past zero HP was ridiculous. It was less noticeable at higher levels, but at level 5 it was still a problem. Anyone else feel this way?

sorry for the spam.

my players actually kick off the whole mythic playtest because its seems to be extremily ridicolous at all
one of them says: "i came to play pathfinder because its bringing to me things and richest storyes than the videogames... with this rule i felt like if im playing diablo III or WoW... so, im quit"

the the others 3´s guys says some nearly the same...

the +20 at a check is horrible, the "cannot kill" feels so weird. the +d6/8/10/12... extra dice at rolling 20´s dont like them at all...

the idea is really good i can say, but the options was so... mmmm st"$%d?
we stay at 1 hour of playing, and, we prefeer to wait second round with beter options and fixes

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Morganstern wrote:

Just throwing my concerns up here.

After a playtest of 3 adventures with only 1 mythic tier, we discovered that non-mythic creatures and npcs basically can't kill someone with mythic toughness. The DR10/Epic and requiring triple their Constitution as negative hit points to die, plus the champion's ability to stay up and fighting past zero HP was ridiculous. It was less noticeable at higher levels, but at level 5 it was still a problem. Anyone else feel this way?

I've noticed the same thing in the lower levels of my playtest.

Scarab Sages Reaper Miniatures

YawarFiesta wrote:
Mythic power to modify your rolls is not a boon when you are required to use it against every foe.

I think that's the point - your Mythic Character CAN survive against that Foe because he has that Mythic power to use against the foe - a "normal" character would never face that beast, it would eliminate them, and their village. Hearkens back to classic Hercules, etc.


Steven T. Helt wrote:

I don't like mythic flaws. Why have them? They don't balance out mythic power, and high level characters are very conceptual in nature, so players won't want their high level ideas hampered by a persistent mechanical flaw.

My very first real feedback about the system is huck them. I'm totally willing to choke it back if Jason or someone else tells me what they're good for.

This I pretty much agree with in whole. I'd also be ok if they were an optional decision for players.


this is one kind of test to become mythic tier?

http://youtu.be/VE-GAJ__uj4


Bryan Stiltz wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:
Mythic power to modify your rolls is not a boon when you are required to use it against every foe.
I think that's the point - your Mythic Character CAN survive against that Foe because he has that Mythic power to use against the foe - a "normal" character would never face that beast, it would eliminate them, and their village. Hearkens back to classic Hercules, etc.

Maybe, but what's the point then? Just give a flat bonus to your rolls since you are suposed to be up to par with those foes. Being able to modify a die roll is cool, having to hoard your immediate actions to have a chance to succeed at a saving throw is not. It's like the system woul be saying "nanana look at all the things you could be doing but can't nanana".

Humbly,
Yawar

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Mythic characters are not supposed to be more powerful until you get close to level 20 why do you think you shouldn't need to use your mythic power? Of corse if they are too week maybe they need a buff, but it sounds like others are really powerful- a dangerous balance game is afoot!

Sovereign Court

GeneticDrift wrote:
Mythic characters are not supposed to be more powerful until you get close to level 20 why do you think you shouldn't need to use your mythic power? Of corse if they are too week maybe they need a buff, but it sounds like others are really powerful- a dangerous balance game is afoot!

Um...what?


GeneticDrift wrote:
Mythic characters are not supposed to be more powerful until you get close to level 20 why do you think you shouldn't need to use your mythic power? Of corse if they are too week maybe they need a buff, but it sounds like others are really powerful- a dangerous balance game is afoot!

youre wrong!!

mythic are suposed to replace the epic or something, but, mythic can start at 5th lvl if u wanna, or 1st (i dont like this idea)

i keep with my own version for this rules

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A 14th Level/7th Mythic Tier Character is supposed to be CR 21... Which is supposed to be more powerful then a 20th level character.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hey there folks,

We on the design team are sharing a number of these concerns as well. This is, after all, why we playtest, to look for problems and to address issues before we go to print.

I am going to take this feedback under advisement.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Hama wrote:
GeneticDrift wrote:
Mythic characters are not supposed to be more powerful until you get close to level 20 why do you think you shouldn't need to use your mythic power? Of corse if they are too week maybe they need a buff, but it sounds like others are really powerful- a dangerous balance game is afoot!
Um...what?

From what I understand a lvl1 /mythic tier 1 is equivalent to a lvl 2 character. Even if a mythic tier is worth more than one level its still going to be measured in a similar way. It's like gaining an extra prestige class in badass.


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Hey there folks,

We on the design team are sharing a number of these concerns as well. This is, after all, why we playtest, to look for problems and to address issues before we go to print.

I am going to take this feedback under advisement.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Hi mr. Bulmahn, i have some questions:

there it will be a round two of this playtest?

at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?

for the wizards path, theres an ability which gave him a bonus ac always he use one spell... that ability is awesome, and can it be for a wizard 20lvl class instead a mythic, maybe giving a time duration?

sort of the inertial armor feat for psionics in 3.5?

for the champion path; i suggest instead those feats, some kind of weapon techniques (maybe a pool of technique points to spend in some abilities with his favored weapon or something [i make my mythic path called Blade Master and has it] and let the player invent his own techniques)


judas 147 wrote:


at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?

I have this thread on the very same question. No Dev answers yet, but the general feeling from the posters is that it is up to the GM how much of a headache they want. I don't think it's game breaking...but I am running a Core only playtest so Hero Points were not allowed. I also don't think I would personally want to have both if I am running anything below a Common type Mythic campaign.

Sovereign Court

judas 147 wrote:
at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?

By RAW yes. Different bonuses that stack. Potentially a +14 to a single roll.


Hama wrote:
judas 147 wrote:
at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?
By RAW yes. Different bonuses that stack. Potentially a +14 to a single roll.

Actually, potentially a +20 to a single role at tier 10, since mythic power rolls add 1d12 at that point.


Matrix Dragon wrote:
Hama wrote:
judas 147 wrote:
at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?
By RAW yes. Different bonuses that stack. Potentially a +14 to a single roll.
Actually, potentially a +20 to a single role at tier 10, since mythic power rolls add 1d12 at that point.

phewwwwww thats a lot of bonuses... poor tarrasque, prepare yourself

you only have a 45 ac at most of it. i have +20 to my roll at least, plus my weapon (maybe +30/+25/+20+15 melee by round) +d20 (asume we got 10 at the check), +20 (mythic/hero)...

Did i hit you with my 60 to hit you?


judas 147 wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Hama wrote:
judas 147 wrote:
at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?
By RAW yes. Different bonuses that stack. Potentially a +14 to a single roll.
Actually, potentially a +20 to a single role at tier 10, since mythic power rolls add 1d12 at that point.

phewwwwww thats a lot of bonuses... poor tarrasque, prepare yourself

you only have a 45 ac at most of it. i have +20 to my roll at least, plus my weapon (maybe +30/+25/+20+15 melee by round) +d20 (asume we got 10 at the check), +20 (mythic/hero)...

Did i hit you with my 60 to hit you?

Few issues here. First, your math is weird. Don't assume you'll roll a 12 on they mythic boost and then assume you'll roll a 10 on the attack roll - you're being inconsistent with your probabilities. Second, the tarrasque is CR 25. And this requires being MR 10. So you're looking, at best, like a 15th level character potentially fighting big Mr. T (since 15/10 makes you approximately like a 25th-level character). Considering all the other powers and defences of the tarrasque, is a 15th level character really able to stand against it even with 10 mythic rank? And if so, the system is actually working as designed.


Jonathon Vining wrote:
judas 147 wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Hama wrote:
judas 147 wrote:
at my table happens some issues with the mythic points and hero points... they can act at the same time?
By RAW yes. Different bonuses that stack. Potentially a +14 to a single roll.
Actually, potentially a +20 to a single role at tier 10, since mythic power rolls add 1d12 at that point.

phewwwwww thats a lot of bonuses... poor tarrasque, prepare yourself

you only have a 45 ac at most of it. i have +20 to my roll at least, plus my weapon (maybe +30/+25/+20+15 melee by round) +d20 (asume we got 10 at the check), +20 (mythic/hero)...

Did i hit you with my 60 to hit you?

Few issues here. First, your math is weird. Don't assume you'll roll a 12 on they mythic boost and then assume you'll roll a 10 on the attack roll - you're being inconsistent with your probabilities. Second, the tarrasque is CR 25. And this requires being MR 10. So you're looking, at best, like a 15th level character potentially fighting big Mr. T (since 15/10 makes you approximately like a 25th-level character). Considering all the other powers and defences of the tarrasque, is a 15th level character really able to stand against it even with 10 mythic rank? And if so, the system is actually working as designed.

ok then assume the max in a hit:

bab+20, d20 (+20 with a critical thread), +12(mhytic), +8 (wisely hero point spent), plus a +5 sword to attack. plus my +12 (str bonus with str magic item), +1 (focus), im a fighter so +4 weapon training bonus...

did i hit you with my +82 to hit?


Just throwing in a few things I've noticed making mythic characters.

First of all, especially for melee characters, they feel vary much like a glass cannon. I, and everyone so far that has tested champion, has duel pathed to guardian to get absorb blow and the DR. In fact, in a recent playtest with an Inquisitor 16/Champion 8 vs an orc army (200 level 9 ish orcs) we found that yes, while they could only hit me on a 20, the one that managed to get a lucky crit still hit for 1/3 of my health even after Epic DR.

The bonuses from Mythic Power and the extra HP from the tiers seem almost a joke. The average bonus you get from Mythic Power starts at 3.5, which is nice at low level, but at tier 10 the average is still only 6.5, which at high levels really isn't worth spending a point for at all (especially compared to the bonuses a well built mythic can do).

The bonus hit points, especially for champion and guardian, could also use help. Most of the time the wizard is gaining an average of 5 HP per level, while a fighter is usually at 8 or 9. Over the course of the tiers, a champion only gains 50 HP, which compared roughly to the damage increase from monsters at +10 CR means a frontliner would usually crumple unless they dipped into Guardian for defenses.

All it all, it seems the offensive power of mythic is far out pacing the defenses a mythic character needs to fight things of an appropriate CR.


That's a good point on the Mythic Power that I keep forgetting to bring up. Why was the decision made to keep scaling the die size instead of using multiple smaller dice? 1d12 has a great deal of swing in it compared to 3d4 or 2d6, which I cannot really see as a good thing.

Is there a particular reason that approach was adapted? Perhaps because rolling a single die is faster?

Re: hit points - yeah. Honestly I think all the mythic tiers could use to grant a few more hit points, not just the champion / guardian.

Silver Crusade

IMO there should be a low level cap on taking Mythic Tiers you should have to be at least 5th level before taking a Myhic tier. To put it plain an simple you are not approaching Mythic until you are at least 5th level more like 7 th level. Until then you are approacing the upper level of normal non-mythic. Mythic rules really are not for characters below 5th level. Just look at most mythic path powers they invole things that are at least in attacks require irreatice attacks
a character below 5th taking the guardian path aability absorve blow will go splat then die even if he has mythic toughness.

SO guys you should not really worry about how the mythic rules interact with characters below 5th level because they are not designed for them.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

But they ARE designed for them. The designers have stated their intentions very clearly and the low level cap you want expressly does not exist according to the document. They are supposed to work. If they don't, that's a problem.

Also even 1st level character can indeed be truly mythic in the dictionary sense of the word. It just means they're taking their first step of a mythic career.
Heroes of myth usually don't start out normal and become superior later; that's for regular heroes. Look at Luke Skywalker. He may have been a regular seeming farm boy, but he was secretly better at everything than he should have been. Why? Because he was Space Jesus.


Lou Diamond wrote:

IMO there should be a low level cap on taking Mythic Tiers you should have to be at least 5th level before taking a Myhic tier. To put it plain an simple you are not approaching Mythic until you are at least 5th level more like 7 th level. Until then you are approacing the upper level of normal non-mythic. Mythic rules really are not for characters below 5th level. Just look at most mythic path powers they invole things that are at least in attacks require irreatice attacks

a character below 5th taking the guardian path aability absorve blow will go splat then die even if he has mythic toughness.

SO guys you should not really worry about how the mythic rules interact with characters below 5th level because they are not designed for them.

Couple of things:

First, not approaching "Mythic" until 5th or 7th level is a fallacy. I'm pretty sure the children of the gods would disagree with you. People can have Mythic power before they become well-trained in a profession of war. Be it due to blood of the gods, the stars aligning, destiny, or whatever else the story calls for.

Second, as for Mythic rules "not for characters below 5th", the entire playtest document disagrees with you. As does Paizo's design team. The first 2 Tiers are completely designed to work below 5th Level. And all of those powers that are based on things like iterative attacks and other post-5th level content? They have prerequisites; usually Tier 3 or higher. And the guidelines in the book recommend no more than one Tier for every 2 Levels. So the issue would only crop up if you're giving more than 2 Tiers to characters of Level 5 or lower.

Shadow Lodge

Sira wrote:

Just throwing in a few things I've noticed making mythic characters.

First of all, especially for melee characters, they feel vary much like a glass cannon. I, and everyone so far that has tested champion, has duel pathed to guardian to get absorb blow and the DR. In fact, in a recent playtest with an Inquisitor 16/Champion 8 vs an orc army (200 level 9 ish orcs) we found that yes, while they could only hit me on a 20, the one that managed to get a lucky crit still hit for 1/3 of my health even after Epic DR.

I'm not sure that's a viable build choice, however. Absorb Blow gives you benefits based on the number of Guardian tiers you possess. But a Champion possesses no Guardian tiers. He only possesses Champion tiers. As a result, he should gain no benefit from the Absorb Blows ability. (At least as I read the ability.)

Dual Path allows you to take path abilities from a different path. But it does not appear to give you any effective tiers in that path. I think it may be overreaching to interpret Dual Path as allowing you to use the tier level of your chosen path as the effective tier level for your Dual Path.

But that's just my read on things. I'd be interested in hearing other peoples' view on this interpretation.


The Block Knight wrote:

Couple of things:

First, not approaching "Mythic" until 5th or 7th level is a fallacy. I'm pretty sure the children of the gods would disagree with you. People can have Mythic power before they become well-trained in a profession of war. Be it due to blood of the gods, the stars aligning, destiny, or whatever else the story calls for.

Second, as for Mythic rules "not for characters below 5th", the entire playtest document disagrees with you. As does Paizo's design team. The first 2 Tiers are completely designed to work below 5th Level. And all of those powers that are based on things like iterative attacks and other post-5th level content? They have prerequisites; usually Tier 3 or higher. And the guidelines in the book recommend no more than one Tier for every 2 Levels. So the issue would only crop up if you're giving more than 2 Tiers to characters of Level 5 or lower.

So in your opinion things like "to the death" and "epic thougtness" are balanced aroud first level PC? Those are available at the first tier. DR 10/ epic and extra 40-50 HP on a character who shouldnt have more than 15? Yea, call that balanced if you like. I call it b&$#%$+#.


Oh no, there is definitely rebalancing that needs to be done for some of the powers. That was part of my point. You need to note that my post was in response to Lou Diamond. Context is important here.

Lou Diamond wrote:
SO guys you should not really worry about how the mythic rules interact with characters below 5th level because they are not designed for them.

My point was that Mythic is designed for characters below 5th level and so we SHOULD be worrying about how Mythic interacts with them. Which means certain powers need to be addressed. Lou's the one arguing to ignore balance at the lower levels in favour of applying a level restriction instead. Which is not the the way to go here since it goes against the design goal of Mythic.

So with context in mind, I assure you, nothing in my post was b!~$%~$#.


I really think that that design goal is not realistyc. Having 1 mithyc tier have the same impact at 1 level or at 10 level is just a dream that will do nothing but cause problems. It's clear, for additional example, to mithyc sleep, even if is a 1 level spell, it's something thought to be cool for someone quite a bit higher then level 1.

Silver Crusade

Black Knight, please tell me how the Champion power Fleet Charge could be balanced to a first level character, Fleet charge is the equivlant of three feats Dodge Mobility and Spring attack but it is actualy better than those three feats becaues it not only gives you one extra attack but it bypasses DR for using one mthic point.

As a GM I would never allow any of my players to gain a mythic tier if they were below 5th level because it would unbalance the game to much IMO and would be to hard to correct and not kill PC's below 5th level Thos are just my views, The may be divergant form the game designers or yours. IMO you have to let you PC's grow a lttle before giving them all the bigboy toys and having the fight the big boys. tell me how any PC of less than 5th level would survive a fight between themselvels and the Dasaline Magus with one mythic tier of Champion or archmage? They would not.


Lou Diamond wrote:
please tell me how the Champion power Fleet Charge could be balanced to a first level character

Why should the balance matter? It isn't like players can *choose* to gain a mythic Tier at first level, and they certainly can't choose to gain a mythic tier instead of their next class level.

Sure, it would be better if mythic powers were equivalent to a single level of power at all levels of play, but that probably isn't going to happen. Even so, I don't see any reason to put any restrictions in place since where, when, and how a player gets mythic power (if ever) is completely under control of the GM.

If a GM wants to let his players have crazy amounts of power early on there is no reason why he can't give the characters a mythic tier at 1st level. If the GM instead wants a more reasonable amount of power, he could wait until level 5 or 6. There is no reason to put any level restrictions on something that is under the complete control of the GM in the first place. A simple warning stating that mythic power may be potentially unbalancing at low levels should suffice.

Silver Crusade

}There is no reason to put any level restrictions on something that is under the complete control of the GM in the first place. A simple warning stating that mythic power may be potentially unbalancing at low levels should suffice. wrote:

/qutoe] I agree with you Matrix Dragon The GM should have 100% control. I just think PC's Need to walk before thy run, thats all also I don't think te mythic rules need to be nerfed so 1-5 level characters won't be blown out by them they are myhic rules after all.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It isn't always right for the PCs to start off walking, sometimes having them start off running is the story your trying to tell. Heracles is a good example of a character who was born mythic (choked a pair of snakes sent by Hera to kill him while he was but an infant). Of course that's not right for most campaigns but sometimes it is part of the GM's storyline.

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

It would probably be more balanced if mythic power was tied to character level. So a lvl 1/ mythic 10 could be more in line with a lvl 11 party. Maybe character level + mythic tier instead of mythic tier + stat mod.

A lvl 1/ mythic 10 would lvl ridiculously fast with appropriate challenges so I doubt we will see this for more than one encounter...(well 1 lvl a day if that's how you roll, or what ever)

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The reason they don't suggest going beyond half a character's level in mythic tiers is because a lot of the abilities rely on higher level abilities such as multiple attacks from BAB or higher level spell slots...

A Lvl 1/MT 10 character wouldn't stand a chance against CR 11 creatures... Their saving throws would be way to low, their to hit would be way to low even when spending mythic power, even if they increase the hit points Mythic character get - that's just delaying the inevitable if it even does that, they would still be casting 1st level spells which means their spells are doing diddly squat.

The recommendation of limiting MT to half character level, save for lvl 1/MT 1, is their for a reason. Though I wouldn't necessarily recommend always constraining yourself to that entirely... a Lvl 1/MT 2 character with more mythic tiers coming down the path, could potentially be a good solo character for an adventure path.

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