Maybe allowing you to prepare BOTH of your domain spells rather than choosing one over the other?What about getting an extra domain slot or two per level? That way expensive component bypass wouldn't happen.I'd certainly look through the domain lists before I'd let such a power get into print, of course... I'd probably leave the 9th level spells off the spell-like ability train in the end, but don't really have a problem with 20th level clerics avoiding expensive material component costs as long as doing so doesn't break the game world (like free miracles would).There is a problem with turning Domain spells into spell-like abilities. Some of those have very expensive material components. Spell-like abilities do not require material components. For example, the Community Domain has Miracle at domain spell level 9.
- Gauss
That would be something I could get behind.
Unlimited uses of 4th and lower spells? For a typical Sarenrae Cleric (Fire/Healing Domains), that's unlimited uses of Fireball and Cure Critical Wounds.
Maybe allowing you to prepare BOTH of your domain spells rather than choosing one over the other?What about getting an extra domain slot or two per level? That way expensive component bypass wouldn't happen.I'd certainly look through the domain lists before I'd let such a power get into print, of course... I'd probably leave the 9th level spells off the spell-like ability train in the end, but don't really have a problem with 20th level clerics avoiding expensive material component costs as long as doing so doesn't break the game world (like free miracles would).There is a problem with turning Domain spells into spell-like abilities. Some of those have very expensive material components. Spell-like abilities do not require material components. For example, the Community Domain has Miracle at domain spell level 9.
- Gauss
That would be something I could get behind.
Unlimited uses of 4th and lower spells? For a typical Sarenrae Cleric (Fire/Healing Domains), that's unlimited uses of Fireball and Cure Critical Wounds.
hardly overpowered, CCW works best out of combat at that level, and an unaugmentable 10d6 fire damage at will is a joke at that level.
It still is a powerful attack to be able to pop off every round. IIRC Fireball is also a Standard Action to cast. Which means that you can move and still fire off your fireball.
From what my (probably slightly flawed math) figures it is slightly more Dice than a 3/4-4/5 optimized Fighter can throw out. Not overpowered but not necessary a Joke. or at least not a bad one. well depending on what side they are on.
CCW would make them even more into the Medic of the group. And save on wands.
It still is a powerful attack to be able to pop off every round. IIRC Fireball is also a Standard Action to cast. Which means that you can move and still fire off your fireball.
From what my (probably slightly flawed math) figures it is slightly more Dice than a 3/4-4/5 optimized Fighter can throw out. Not overpowered but not necessary a Joke. or at least not a bad one. well depending on what side they are on.
CCW would make them even more into the Medic of the group. And save on wands.
10d6 without static modifiers. and a DC13+cha mod (a tertiary stat at best) reflex save for half and applies the most common resistance. assuming best circumstances, you score 35 average damage and will likely do 17 or less most of the time.
a fighter at that level, is using a weapon deals a lot more damage, due to static modifiers, lack of reflex save, and that fact it is easier to land an attack than to pray an enemy fails a laughable reflex save against an easy to resist spell against a resistance that nearly all high level monsters have.
CCW would save money on wands, as long as the cleric in question is still alive. and it saves actions too. but that is an extra 750GP per PC per encounter. you still need a means to save the downed medic in case of emergency. which at that level, better be at least a portable cache of CL15th scrolls of heal.
10d6 without static modifiers. and a DC13+cha mod (a tertiary stat at best) reflex save for half and applies the most common resistance. assuming best circumstances, you score 35 average damage and will likely do 17 or less most of the time.
You're also 1) way the heck out of range of most attacks so in not a whole lot of danger of retaliation and 2) you're doing that damage without expending any resources.
If you're casting an unmodified Fireball, that is spending a spell slot in order to cast it, of course you want the most bang for your buck, because you may only get one shot at it. If you're able to suddenly fire off a Fireball spell every round without needing to do anything besides pay a Standard Action, you probably don't care as much about how much damage it's dealing; you can just fire off another one on the next round, and the next, and the next, and keep pelting anything with Fireballs until you got bored or the thing died.
10d6 without static modifiers. and a DC13+cha mod (a tertiary stat at best) reflex save for half and applies the most common resistance. assuming best circumstances, you score 35 average damage and will likely do 17 or less most of the time.
You're also 1) way the heck out of range of most attacks so in not a whole lot of danger of retaliation and 2) you're doing that damage without expending any resources.
If you're casting an unmodified Fireball, that is spending a spell slot in order to cast it, of course you want the most bang for your buck, because you may only get one shot at it. If you're able to suddenly fire off a Fireball spell every round without needing to do anything besides pay a Standard Action, you probably don't care as much about how much damage it's dealing; you can just fire off another one on the next round, and the next, and the next, and keep pelting anything with Fireballs until you got bored or the thing died.
there is a reason the words "Don't split the Party" are seen as wisdom; when you are far enough to exploit the range advantage yet close enough to see the foe you are facing. you are, while keeping yourself away from the threat's attacking the PCs, leaving yourself alone and vulnerable to a whole new seperate set of threats. and you don't have the armored hulk to protect you. plus you actually need to see where you are attacking, and distance affects visibility. and fire is so commonly resisted, hell, fire resistance is handed out to monsters like halloween candy. and if you are close enough to save a downed comerade, your range means nothing when you are in enemy charge range. in fact, if you were exploiting you 2400 foot range, it wouldn't be a lack of retaliation, but a whole new threat would harm you because you were distracted and they are hungry.
also, arrows are cheaper than dirt. and are far more likely to deal damage.
Why would it be CHA? Don't Clerics cast off of WIS? or am I missing a rule interaction.
Also a Wand of CXW used for emergencies is still cheaper than having to spend them to completely heal. Bring Cleric back to consciousness (1hp+) and they can get themselves back to fighting shape.
& as Harrison points out it is an At-Will Fireball. and will still effect most mooks.
A tactically effective party never scatters they stay in groups of at least 2.
Why would it be CHA? Don't Clerics cast off of WIS? or am I missing a rule interaction.
Also a Wand of CXW used for emergencies is still cheaper than having to spend them to completely heal. Bring Cleric back to consciousness (1hp+) and they can get themselves back to fighting shape.
& as Harrison points out it is an At-Will Fireball. and will still effect most mooks.
it would be WIS for the spell slot version
for the at will SLA version, the Stat is CHA because all spell like abilities, are keyed off CHA. unless you have a class feature or racial ability that says otherwise.
a downed cleric the moment he gets up to position himself to cure, provokes an AoO, which may kill him or knock him unconscious.
and the only mooks fireball can harm signifficantly enough to be relevant, meet the following conditions
extremely low hit points (35 or less)
lousy reflex save (can reliably fail a DC 14ish)
dumb enough to bunch up
no fire resistance nor immunity of any kind
no relevant spell resistance of any kind (whether none, or low enough to pass 75% of the time or more)
Ok then... Adding it in that it casts off WIS wouldn't be that breaking.
Hmm, keep the DR at 5 then make the maximum conversion to SLAs at SL7 and make it they are cast of WIS.
Does that seem OP'd. Also you are still doing a lot of damage for a Standard action where you can be maneuvering into better positions.
And if you are planning on using a Bow you might as well get an Endless Ammo bow.
By that logic a Fire Elemental Sorcerer is worthless.
Ok then... Adding it in that it casts off WIS wouldn't be that breaking.
Hmm, keep the DR at 5 then make the maximum conversion to SLAs at SL7 and make it they are cast of WIS.
Does that seem OP'd. Also you are still doing a lot of damage for a Standard action where you can be maneuvering into better positions.
And if you are planning on using a Bow you might as well get an Endless Ammo bow.
By that logic a Fire Elemental Sorcerer is worthless.
not really that OP at all, and an at will 3rd level SLA for 35 damage on a failed save or 17.5 on a successful save, before factoring resistance which lowers it even more. 35 damage on a standard action isn't too high at 20th level
20th level full bab archer with a 22 STR, 26 Dex, and 20 con, deadly aim, point blank shot, precise shot, improved precise shot, bracers of the falcon, weapon focus +5 adaptable composite longbow. this is before factoring buffs or class features that could skew this further.
20 (Bab) -6 (Deadly Aim) +5 (Weapon enhancement) +8 (Dexterity) +1 weapon focus, +1 (bracers of the falcon) +29 to hit per single shot, before class features. for 4.5 (1d8) +12 (Deadly aim) +6 (Str) +5 (enhancement) for 27.5 per successful shot. before investing class features and with only standard archery feats and items, plus a +6 belt of physical perfection.
the archer also doesn't have to worry about Spell resistance, energy resistance, or saving throws.
a melee build could reverse the strength and dexterity, pick up a glaive, take power attack instead and deal, 40.5 per swing at 1 less point of to hit bonus. or 5 more points of to hit bonus with furious focus.
a fire elemental sorcerer is worthless, because blasting spells are worthless. if you focused on spells that did better stuff than making you a human nuke. you would be a more effective nuke. buffs, battlefield control, summons, save or sucks, a GOD sorcerer is better than just another fireball chucker.
Hmm... really it comes down to what needs to be done in any given round.
A Cleric might have nothing else to do other than launch that fireball.
It is just another tool in their toolbox.
Hmm... really it comes down to what needs to be done in any given round.
A Cleric might have nothing else to do other than launch that fireball.
It is just another tool in their toolbox.
i didn't say it couldn't be used for recreational purposes to keep yourself entertained in combat. rolling a damage roll is a great form of stress relief. it's not very effective. but 7.5 damage can add up over time when combined with the martial damage machines and thier superior output.
It actually can be pretty effective... My parties Wizard just rolled max damage on a fireball and took out most of the Next Wave of Goblins...
My Paladin is still doing more damage against individual foes, but not helpful in the grand scheme of the combat...
Note: We are fighting a Dragon and his Goblin Hordes.
I never quite noticed that there is no capstone for clerics, mainly because no one in our group is enticed to play one. However, some of their spells can greatly turn the tides of battle in favor in one turn.
Mainly Mass Heal in an epic battle vs. undead. That one springs to mind
Mainly Mass Heal in an epic battle vs. undead. That one springs to mind
Or even Goblin Hordes lead by a Dragon.
Blasting sorcerors work just as well as God Sorcs, because of 2 simple thing.
1) God sorcerors are strong because they take certain spells. Anyone can take those spells.
2) Blasting sorcerors work with major investment into blasting via feats. Without that investment, blasting sucks.
Any blasting sorceror can play a god sorc.
No god sorc can reliably play a blaster sorc.
Fire resistance/immunity is easy to get around with element substitution.
And when you can reliably deal out 200-300 damage with one blasting spell, and you get 2/rd, suddenly 'control of the battlefield' means 'no enemies alive on the battlefield'.
If you want me to post a blaster sorc that can do that, and the per level damages they can do, be happy to. The board worked quite hard on the build and how to make a PF blaster that works.
==Aelryinth
