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Getting out of grapples?


Advice

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MacGurcules wrote:
You just attack them. Just account for the penalties they have for being in a grapple (usually -2 AC from the Dex penalty) and swing away. There's no trick to it.

My group still remembers a lot of 3.5 rules better than PF rules, is there any written source (books, errata) that would indicate otherwise?


If your group is having trouble remembering PF's grapple rules, there are a couple of user-generated flow charts over on d20PFSRD's grapple page that might help.

MacGurcules is correct regarding attacking a grappler: attack normally. The grappled condition decreases the subject's AC by 2 (from -4 Dex). (Only very rarely can a creature grapple without taking the penalties of the grappled condition). It also forbids AoO's, so party members can move around the grappler as they see fit or attempt combat maneuvers versus the grappler (who has a -2 on their CMD for their -4 Dex) without triggering an AoO.

One other difference from 3.5 is that ranged attacks by other party members into a grapple no longer have a random chance of hitting either target involved in the grapple. They just take the normal penalty for firing into melee, if applicable.


The problem is with things like 50% chance to hit either target... because the rules don't state different, this is getting carried over.

If I can find official word of this then it becomes a lot easier convincing them to drop the 50% chance of hitting friendlies. Because they know the 3.5 rules so well, they go by them when in doubt unless they find an actual rule stating differently.


Regarding ranged attacks into a grapple in 3.5 vs PF, compare table 8-6 in the Combat Modifiers section of the 3.5 PHB (p 151) to PF's CRB (p 195): Footnote 3 (which described the random roll for ranged attacks in a grapple) has been removed in the CRB.

Grapplers in PF are moved adjacent; they do not occupy the same square and ranged attacks into a PF grapple do not have a random chance of striking either grappler.


The rule that states there is a 50% chance of hitting friendlies was not carried over. If the rule is not present it is just not present. The Paizo developers did not make a statement that the rule is not present for each rule they cut or changed.

Take the reach weapon exception. It vanished and many 3.5 to PF players never realized it. You cannot hit the diagonal squares 2 squares away with a reach weapon in PF.

- Gauss


Gauss wrote:


Take the reach weapon exception. It vanished and many 3.5 to PF players never realized it. You cannot hit the diagonal squares 2 squares away with a reach weapon in PF.

- Gauss

sean k renolds, i think, actually said that it was ok. i dont know where he said it, but i remember reading it.

first he said that the rule worked as gauss said, then he changed it later in that same post.


Jupp, said what was ok? I mentioned two rules in my post.

- Gauss


corrected, i guess it didnt delete for some reason.


Jupp ok. Well his current statement is that the rule was removed but that a creature moving from 15' away to 5' away still provokes an AoO because it moved through the 10foot 'band'.

Here is a link to a poll I made on the topic. It contains SKRs statement on this topic.

- Gauss


If you pick up the Eschew Materials feat you can just true strike your way out of the grapple as a grapple check is an attack i believe.


the poll post and the linked post were not the post i was referencing, if i can find it, i will post it.

but i noticed this post was more resent then the one im talking about, by about a year. so maybe they came to a solid rule of no in that time.

Bertious wrote:
If you pick up the Eschew Materials feat you can just true strike your way out of the grapple as a grapple check is an attack i believe.

you would still need to succeed on a concentration check.


Bertious, Eschew Materials has no bearing on True Strike because it does not have a material component. In any case you would still have to make the concentration check for True strike. Still, it would make for a pretty good wand.

- Gauss


True strike has a focus according to the sdr site and i totally forgot how hard the concentration check is from grappled. Still a wand would solve the issue nicely, a wand of grease would also be a good tool.


PRPG Grapple no longer puts you in the same square as another creature.
There is no difference between being Grappled and not being Grappled besides what the Grappled Condition says,
just like there is no difference between being Prone or not, or being Nauseous or not, besides what those Conditions say.


Bertious, a focus is not a material component. Eschew Materials does not get rid of your focus.

- Gauss

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