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Suggested Mythic Flaws and Abilities


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Since I'm kind of thread-jacking all over the place, I thought I would put together a thread to contain the stuff I have come up with thus far, and welcome others to contribute as well.

I figure consolidating ideas like this into one place will make it easier for the devs to cannibalize ideas once the playtest is over.

MYTHIC FLAWS

Item Dependency: Your mythic abilities stem not from within, but from a mystical tie to an object. This may be your father's sword, an heirloom locket, or the bullet pulled from your skull when you were raised from the dead. Whatever it is, its hold on you is absolute. You must keep this object on your person at all times (and not in an extra-dimensional space). If you are ever deprived of the item for more than 1 round, you lose access to all of your mythic abilities. Once chosen, this item cannot change.

If your item is destroyed, you are permanently deprived of your mythic tiers. If the destroyed item is ever restored (a sundered amulet reunited, shards of your broken sword reforged), your powers return.

Mythic Code: Your mythic power is reliant on your ability to uphold a code; be it a personal set of rules and restrictions or the religious code of a deity. Regardless of the origin, your powers are dependent on your ability to adhere to these strictures. You must design a code of conduct with your GM which must have at least four points to uphold. They may not already be tenets that you must uphold to maintain other normal class abilities (such as a paladin's code or a knight's order code), but are restrictions in addition to them (though these codes themselves make for good inspiration.) If you ever violate a point of your code, you lose access to your mythic abilities for one day per mythic tier (or until you receive an atonement.)

MYTHIC PATH ABILITIES

Trickster

Impossible Dodge (Ex): When struck by a melee or ranged attack, you may expend a use of mythic power to make a Reflex save (DC equal to the opponent's attack result) to negate the attack.

Master of Escape (Su): You may expend a use of mythic power to make an Escape Artist check in place of the saving throw you normally would be allowed to resist spells or spell-like that limit or hinder mobility, such as hold person, entangle and forcecage. For spells that do not allow a saving throw to bypass, such as wall of force, the Trickster is allowed to make an escape artist check against the DC of the spell or effect +10.

Weightless Step (Su): When running or charging, the trickster may expend a use of mythic power to move in any direction without risk of falling. They may ascend into the air as if walking on the wind, cross running water, run along a vertical surface, and other impossible feats. They must begin and end their movement on a solid surface.

Spell Thief (Su): You may expend a use of mythic power to use the steal combat maneuver to steal a prepared spell from a spellcaster. If the combat maneuver is successful, the trickster randomly steals a prepared spell of the highest level the target can cast. The target loses the spell as if it had been cast. If the trickster has a high enough Charisma score, he may cast the spell. The DC for the stolen spell is 10 + spell level + trickster's charisma modifier.

If the target is a spontaneous caster and the combat maneuver is successful, the trickster steals a spell slot of the highest level the target can cast and may cast one of the target's known spells of that level (determined randomly).

If the trickster must cast the spell in the following round after stealing it, or the energy is lost.

Decoy (Ex): You may expend a use of mythic power to make a Bluff check on a target within 30 feet as a move action. If successful, you may designate any adjacent creature as your "decoy" and through subterfuge and underhanded tactics any melee attacks, ranged attacks or targeted spells against the you by the Bluffed target instead effect your decoy. This effect lasts for one round, regardless of if the decoy moves away from an adjacent position to the trickster.

Charming Redirection (Su): When the trickster is targeted with a mind-effecting spell or spell-like ability and he successfully saves to resist it, he may expend a use of mythic power to instead redirect the effect to another creature within 30 feet as an immediate action. The redirected target must save against the spell as if they were the original intended target.

Crime Spree (Ex): By expending a use of mythic power, the trickster may attempt a steal combat maneuver against every opponent within reach.

Stolen Talent (Su): By expending a use of mythic power, the trickster may attempt a steal combat maneuver against an adjacent opponent. If successful, he may steal one of the target's feats to use as his own, and deprives the target of that feat for the duration of stolen talent. The trickster may not steal a feat for which he does not have the prerequisites. The trickster treats any stolen feat with an ability score requirement as requiring a sufficient Dexterity score, regardless of the original ability score. Stolen talent lasts for 1 round per mythic tier.

Stolen Voice (Su): A trickster may make a steal combat maneuver against an adjacent target to render them unable to speak by expending a use of mythic power. If successful the trickster renders his target mute, and may opt to speak in the stolen voice using any languages the trickster knows. Stolen voice lasts for 1 round per two mythic tiers.

Elephant in the Crowd (Su): By spending one use of mythic power, the trickster may make a stealth check as a full-round action to render himself and his actions innocuous to onlookers. Targets observing the trickster when he makes this check may make an opposed Perception check, while individuals not observing the trickster at the time the check is made may not make a check unless they attempt to interact with the trickster (intentionally or otherwise) or are interacted with by the trickster.

Subjects who fail their Perception checks (or those who were not observing the trickster initially) ignore the trickster and his action as being harmless or otherwise mundane. His movement and actions do not appear suspicious. He disappears into his environment, becoming unobtrusive and unremarkable.

While Elephant in the Crowd is active all opponents are considered flat-footed to the trickster. Anyone subject to interaction by the trickster (such as victim of a sleight of hand to pick pockets or a non-damaging targeted spell) may make a new Perception check to notice the trickster. A victim targeted by a melee or ranged attack, or a damaging spell may make a new Perception check at a +10 bonus.

Elephant in the Crowd lasts for 1 round per mythic tier.

Pilfered Morality (Su): By expending a use of mythic power, the trickster may attempt a sleight of hand check on an adjacent target. If successful, he temporarily appears to have the same alignment as the victim. Spells and abilities that detect alignments or alignment-dependent abilities or items detect the victim's alignment, not the trickster's. The trickster does not know what the target's alignment is, unless he has other means of detecting it independently. Pilfered morality lasts for 1 minute per mythic tier.

Phantasmal Hitchhiker (Su): When a trickster is in the area of effect of an illusion spell (such as hallucinatory terrain or silent image) the trickster may expend a use of mythic power to "hitchhike" along with the spell effect. As long as he remains within the area of effect for the illusion, the trickster is considered to be invisible as he blends in to the illusory surroundings. Violent actions do not break this invisibility, but do grant the victim of such an attack to make a Will save (with a DC equal to the illusion effect the trickster is hitchhiking on) to disbelieve the illusion (and thereby see the trickster).

Dismantle (Ex): A trickster may spend a use of mythic power to make a Disable Device check as a standard action to deal damage to an adjacent creature of the construct type. The DC for this is equal equal to the construct's Combat Maneuver Defense. A successful Disable Device check inflicts 1d6 points of damage per mythic tier, plus any additional sneak attack damage that the trickster may have (regardless of any potential immunity to precision damage the construct may possess). This damage bypasses any damage reduction the construct may have.

Summoned Ambush (Ex): A trickster may spend a use of mythic power to augment a summon monster spell or spell-like ability he can cast. Any creature the trickster summons using this power is invisible for their first round of combat.

Borrowed Magic (Su): As a standard action a trickster may borrow a portion of power from an already extant spell. The trickster may spend a point of mythic power to share the benefit of one ongoing spell effect on an adjacent ally for one round per mythic tier. The trickster must stay adjacent to this ally for the spell to remain in effect on him.


Also if anyone has any suggestions on things they'd like to see me brainstorm, by all means. This all started from someone's suggestions in the trickster thread. I'll do monsters and other stuff as well if the desire arises.


Would suggestions for Mythic Feats go here as well? I have a few of those.

Andoran

Suggestions?

I'm trying to sort out how one could play on the Druid's Wild Shape to make it interesting and expand it into territory Druids cannot do.

Something for the animals that travel with mythic characters. It seems a bit odd that the characters power up, but the animal gets pretty much left behind.


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I'd like to see Mythic Blind Fight make you suffer no effects from being Blinded short of being unable to see. Blind Swordsmen (Or even Blind Archer) is such a archtypical Mythic character concept it really should be as simple as taking Blind Fight and Mythic Blindfight to make without gimping yourself.

I'd to see some higher level mythic abilities (8+) do "absolute" thing like never miss, regardless of cover, concealment or natural ones (Call it If I Shoot) unless the target has a mythic ability that counters it as part of an extra effect, or at least just never miss non-mythic targets (Given how you barely miss anyways at higher levels, it's not THAT big a deal)


TheRedwolf wrote:
Would suggestions for Mythic Feats go here as well? I have a few of those.

Totally :)


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Here's some druid and paladin ideas:

Hierophant

Dragonflesh (Su): A hierophant may expend one use of mythic power to transform into a mighty dragon as the form of the dragon I spell. At mythic tier 7 this ability works as form of the dragon II and at 10th tier form of the dragon III. Dragonflesh lasts for 1 minute per mythic tier. Minimum mythic tier 4, requires wildshape.

Radiant Healing (Su): When using lay on hands, a hierophant may expend one use of mythic power to heal all allies in a 30-foot burst instead of a single target. Undead within the burst may make a Will save (DC 10 + mythic tier + prime ability score modifier) to reduce the amount of positive energy damage they would take by half.

Champion

Resplendent Smite (Su): A champion may expend one use of mythic power to channel positive energy through his smite evil ability. For 1 round per mythic tier, the paladin heals all adjacent allies a number of points of damage equal to his mythic tier, plus his primary mythic power ability score modifier each time he successfully damages the target of his smite. Requires smite evil.

Thunderous Smite (Su): A champion may expend one use of mythic power to allow his blows to inflict tremendous force. When he strikes the target of his smite, he may make a free bull rush or trip combat maneuver attempt against the opponent with each melee attack he makes. If the champion chooses bull rush, he does not need to move with his opponent. Requires smite evil, requires tier 5.

Crusader's Smite (Su): By expending one point of mythic power when activating smite evil, a paladin may choose to target a number of creatures up to his mythic tier with smite evil. Requires smite evil.

Vigilant Smite (Su): A champion may expend one use of mythic power to become hyper-vigilant to the target of his smite evil. For the remaining duration of his smite, the champion always knows the location of his target (negating concealment and invisibility) and distance from him, should the target leave his line of sight. Requires smite evil.

Banishing Smite (Su): By expending a use of mythic power, the champion may affect the target of its smite evil with dismissal on his next successful melee attack (the DC to resist is 10 + mythic tier + prime mythic ability score modifier). Requires smite evil.

Terrifying Smite (Su): When using smite evil, a champion may expend a use of mythic power to gain the frightful presence ability. Requires smite evil.

Binding Smite (Su): By expending a use of mythic power, the champion may affect the target of its smite evil with dimensional anchor on his next successful melee attack (the DC to resist is 10 + mythic tier + prime mythic ability score modifier).

Andoran

I have to admit Lucent. You are very good. I was still toying with things and working out balance on the Druid ones and you get them out. With a look they look balanced and grant intriguing possibilities.

I can see my Friday groups paladin taking several of those smite abilities and absolutely enjoying them.


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Maybe they should hire you, huh? Somebody should.


Well crap, I just spent like an hour typing up a bunch of examples of ideas I had for mythic feats for each class and one misclick got rid of all of them before I could submit...looks like I'll have to retype them up tomorrow.


RedWolf, I had the exact same thing happen when I was transcribing/formatting the original post from all of my disparate ones. It is a mother of a mistake :x


Yeah, I just don't feel like taking the time to redo it all now, so I'll do it tomorrow. Hopefully I'll remember my idea. Actually, I might even take the time to add in more honestly.


Jackissocool wrote:
Maybe they should hire you, huh? Somebody should.

Flattering, but there's a lot of very talented people on these boards with far better ideas than mine. Though I will be participating in the RPG Superstar this year, despite the steep competition.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dotting this. If these aren't all implemented in the final release, I want to use them still. Awesome work Lucent!

Shadow Lodge

TheRedwolf wrote:
Well crap, I just spent like an hour typing up a bunch of examples of ideas I had for mythic feats for each class and one misclick got rid of all of them before I could submit...looks like I'll have to retype them up tomorrow.

Get Lazarus. If you're not using Firefox (or Chrome, I think there's also a plugin for that, just search for it) then you should be =)

Taldor

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Archmage Path Ability:

Energy surge (Ex): Your mastery over the different kind of energy made you discover the primal source of their power. You treat the energy resistance of non-mythic creatures as if they are 5 lower than normal. In addition, if you expend one use of mythic energy as a free action, for one minute you can ignore the energy resistance of non-mythic creatures, and you treat those who have energy immunity as if it were resist 20.

What do you think of it?? I wanted to try to give some kind of boon to those who specialize in an element over non-mythic creatures. I think it could be interesting since it doesn't really give you an edge over a mythic creature, but the character will seem mythic compared to others, since he could bypass the resistance of "normal" creatures...


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I would very much like to see a mythic flaw related to sleep, along the lines of Rip Van Winkle or sleeping beauty or any immortal being that took a nap and woke up in another era.

Epic Slumber (Ex and Su): You require sleep in order to function. You do not wake during the night and cannot have your requirement for sleep reduced. You also treat the fatigued condition as exhausted and any effect that would make you exhausted instead causes you to sleep. While sleeping, you do not age. Illusion protects you while you slumber. Attempts to notice you while sleeping require a will save (fnuh) and attempts to attack you require a second will save (fnuh) lest the attacker fall asleep until the moment after you wake. If you are reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, you fall asleep after stabilizing.

Something along those lines, I have a feeling you could do better. I would like to have some niche way to have someone fall asleep for a century or longer, but this doesn't work well in an adventuring game. I'm sure you could make improvements Lucent. I think there needs to be some stopgap to prevent the sleeping illusion from being abused.

Though I wouldn't know how to do it mechanically, having a weak-spot is very mythic. Achilles had his heel, did he not? Perhaps a weakness to precision damage and/or critical hits? (I'd pick mine as right between the eyes.)

Weak Point (Ex): Choose a spot on your body. That spot is your weak point. Any time you are struck by an attack that would be a critical hit, sneak attack, or cause other precision damage (even if you are normally immune to those conditions or to being denied your dexterity bonus, flat-footed, or flanked) it has a 20% chance of striking your weak point. If the attacker knows your weak point, it has a 50% chance. If it strikes your weak point, double all non-sneak attack precision damage dealt, the attacker rolls sneak attack damage dice twice, and treat the weapon's critical modifer as 1 higher (to a maximum of x5.) You also become sickened for 1d4 rounds. This attack ignores all damage reduction you may have. If an attacker hits your weak point once, they learn its location. If you would normally be immune, you only take this damage if your weak point is struck. Covering the weak point causes you to lose your mythic powers until it remains uncovered for 24 hours. Hits that strike your weak point can't be negated by any effect, such as Light Fortification, although such abilities do not necessarily count as covering your weak point.

I'm sure you'll be able to clean these up, if they're at all usable.

Edit: Thought of another flaw...

Arch-nemesis [Su]: Some heros will meet their match. A hero with this ability receives an arch-nemesis of the GM's choosing. A player takes a -4 penalty to AC and saving throws to attacks and abilities of the arch-nemesis and all damage rolls deal an additional 4 damage to the player and ignores any DR or energy resistance. Any of the arch-nemesis' animal companions or other cohorts receive half these bonuses and penalties. An arch-nemesis has an awareness as to the location of the player to within ten miles. If the arch-nemesis is defeated, a new one is appointed within a week. The CR/MR of the player should be for APL +2/+1. Players may share the same arch-nemesis, increasing the CR/MR accordingly.


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Let me see what I can do here with the sleeping...

Sleep of Ages (Ex): Your mythic powers are tied to the restorative power of sleep and dreams, without which you are deprived your mythic abilities. Regardless of any ability or effect, you require at least 8 hours of sleep a night to maintain your mythic powers, failing to removes all of your mythic tiers until you get a full night's rest. While you sleep, you have intense dreams that inspire and guide you. You suffer a penalty to magical sleep effects and spells like dream and nightmare equal to your total mythic tiers. While you sleep you do not age, nor do you need to eat or drink. Other effects are not suspended while you slumber, and you could potentially sleep for centuries at a time if you so desired.

____

So, I took away the illusion because it seemed like too much for the flaw. It keeps a similar feel, but doesn't quite mimic the fairy tales exactly. Mechanically it is more sound, I think.

As for the Achilles' heel:

Weak Point (Ex): You have a literal Achilles' heel, a weak-point that can be exploited by your foes. You take double damage from precision damage and precision damage always penetrates your damage reduction regardless of source.

_____

Again, it presumes that your weak-point gets hit every time by precision damage, but involves way less dice rolling than the "miss chance" it had prior. Less dice rolling in combat is always beneficial, and I feel it brings this in line with the material weakness.


@Darkorin: I love the energy surge ability, that feels sufficiently mythic (casting a fireball hot enough to burn a red dragon), etc. I might lower the duration of the mythic power portion to 1 round per mythic tier, which would put it at 1 minute at tier 10.

Taldor

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, That seems really great Lucent.

Right now I feel like a lot of the current Path ability doesn't revolve about the fact that a mythic character is superior to non-mythic.

Most of them revolves just around giving you more power, while not caring if you are fighting mythic creatures or not. It would be really interesting to make some or most of the path ability work only against non-mythic creatures.

The abilities could give you a little boon when you fight against Mythic Creatures, but it does sure feel like it would be a lot easier to make all of the abilities that way. Then a "Mythic fight" would seem more like a normal challenge, while a non-mythic one would be a lot easier.

I'm wondering what Jason would say about this way of thinking and building path abilities.

We could also modify some of the pre-existing path ability, like this:

Competent Caster (Archmage path ability):
(Ex): You learn to cast your simple spells with grace and ease, allowing you to maintain focus on the foes around you. Whenever you cast an arcane spell that is at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast using that spellcasting class, you automatically succeed at the concentration check to cast that spell if the source requiring you to make the check comes from a non-mythic creature. You must make a check normally for spells of the highest level you can cast.

Against Mythic creatures, you get a +4 on all of your concentration check to cast spell at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast.


Oh, I approve. I very very approve.

Weak point seems too easily overcome with things like uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I agree that the flaws should not be able to be covered by abilities that make you immune. Immunity to fear versus hubris might work out (with more words stating that immunity triggers as if you made the save) but immunity to your flaws seems kinda cheesy. Especially since it is worded poorly for when it is cancelled. I think a blanket statement of "you cannot be immune to your flaw through any means, and if you gain immunity to your flaw at a later time you lose your current flaw and take a new one" Item immunity I can see I guess but even then I would like to see immunity to flaws scaled back so it is very difficult to achieve. Fortification mitigates, resistance and protection from energy do the same. Paladin immunities do not.


Pharmalade wrote:

Oh, I approve. I very very approve.

Weak point seems too easily overcome with things like uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.

I agree, though there are other sources of precision damage other than a sneak attack, it is the primary source and does make this somewhat uncertainly balanced.


Lucent wrote:


Item Dependency: Your mythic abilities stem not from within, but from a mystical tie to an object. This may be your father's sword, an heirloom locket, or the bullet pulled from your skull when you were raised from the dead. Whatever it is, its hold on you is absolute. You must keep this object on your person at all times (and not in an extra-dimensional space). If you are ever deprived of the item for more than 1 round, you lose access to all of your mythic abilities. Once chosen, this item cannot change.

If your item is destroyed, you are permanently deprived of your mythic tiers. If the destroyed item is ever restored (a sundered amulet reunited, shards of your broken sword reforged), your powers return.

I would love for this mythic flaw to be around, simply because there are lots of examples of creatures in myths which are item dependent. Kisunes are dependent upon their Star Balls for example.

There could be a variant for spellcasters that makes them dependent upon their bonded item.


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The class specific abilities should be feats, not path abilities. That way if I'm a Paladin, I'm not locked into one archetype of character. Paladins would also make good Guardians and Marshalls IMO. Or you'd need a similar number of Paladin specific abilities for each, plus ranger, cavalier, fighter, barbarian, inquisitor, and gunslinger abilities for each as well. Plus maybe some Druid and Cleric ones for those who aren't really the hierophant type.

I like some of your ideas. They would work better redesigned as feats though.


I agree entirely that they would be better off as feats. SKR came up with the same conclusion last night, and I definitely see the reasoning in it. It also gives more versatility and variety to mythic feats rather than just Non-Mythic Feat++.

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