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Trying to figure out exactly what's making me fussy about this:


Gamer Talk


So...

My monk died last session. I know, boo-hoo, right?

We had just beaten up a bunch of smelly ol' trogs, kung fu'd an ogre into submission and found an interesting crypt. Inside the crypt was some sort of divine lady being who bade us to lay down our weapons so that they might be blessed for our efforts. Right.

My monk had no weapons to lay down and also a WIS of 16. Something seems smelly about this, and it wasn't just the trog musk.

So, our fighter and our samurai (I know, I know) lay down their weapons while the alchemist and I start to puzzle over the situation. Suddenly the lady disappears and a huge, ugly, tentacled fiend appears and tries to eat us.

Well, it tries to eat me. Its opening move was to hit us all with an Unholy Blight, which thanks to my save left me with about 13 HP. We're a 3rd level party and my monk is the only character with at least an ostensible ranged magical weapon. So I chuck my +1 spear at it and hit it for DMG! Everybody else's efforts just bounce off its DR. Our GM decides since I'm the only one that's damaged it thus far, it's going to concentrate on the monk! It hits me with a scorching ray, knocking me down to -3. In our gaming circle, the usual protocol is to go after a threat who isn't unconscious in this situation, so I was a little surprised to see the second scorching ray was aimed at me as well. It's a crit, and I am now sitting on a nice round -22 HP.

I was a little sad, as it had been fun to play my silly little monk, and I was pretty excited to see her get back to Tian Xia. Also, given our gaming culture, that second shot seemed a little blood-thirsty. But monsters aren't dumb, I suppose, and even though I wasn't a threat after I had thrown my spear, I was the only person who had hurt the thing.

Our DM clled the game then, as it was nearly 10:30.

So I think all week of a new character I could play, deciding on a caster, roll her up to 3rd and I call up my GM to run some story ideas past him. He tells me not to worry about it because he was having an NPC come in who would raise my monk and kill the baddie we were fighting. He had planned on killing someone in the crypt so he could introduce this other dude. He told me my monk wouldn't take any level loss from this, because it had all been a part of his scheme.

I can't exactly put my finger on why, but this really bugged me. I'll admit that I was a little sad when he went out of his (relative) way to kill off my monk, but for whatever reason, this revelation made me feel like sitting out the next game. I'm a petty, petulant person, I know, but... grrrr anyway!

I dunno. I guess I just needed a space to vent my spleen. I think I'm kinda dumb to be bugged about this, but I think this totally broke immersion for me. It felt less like we were telling a story together and we were all just in his story? *sigh*

TL/DR: I'm kind of a baby and I need some place to pout.

Thanks for listening.


Honestly, I was all set to call you a baby because you were upset that your character died. Having read this, though, I think you have a justifiable beef. First off, I don't think characters should face monsters they almost definitely can't beat. I don't like having an NPC swoop in to save the PCs, because I think the PCs should be the heroes. Finally, I don't see any reason your character had to die, even temporarily, just to have an NPC come in and save you guys. Swooping in to resurrect you just makes it seem like even more of a deus ex machina than it already was.

That said, your character is fine and you liked her, so I probably would stick with the campaign for now to see how it plays out. If you keep feeling like you're in a prewritten story, I might opt out.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I know the encounter you speak of and it's a toughy. It sounds like your major beef is loss of agency. A valid complaint. Tell your GM to take it easy with the fiat, ask to keep your monk dead so you can play the new character without cheapening death.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's like a scripted event in games. Annoying.


It sounds like you will soon have a GMNPC on your adventures....Yay?

Also your GM leading you around by the nose is annoying. Did the high level guy HAVE to raise you? He couldn't have just, ya know, cast a few CLWs?


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KenB3 wrote:
Honestly, I was all set to call you a baby because you were upset that your character died.

I know, right? I was a little worried that that was the source of my angst. But after a little reflection, I was almost sure it wasn't.

KenB3 wrote:


That said, your character is fine and you liked her, so I probably would stick with the campaign for now to see how it plays out. If you keep feeling like you're in a prewritten story, I might opt out.

I had actually planned to stay with the campaign, in truth (lame protestations aside, I would feel like too much of a jerkface if I rage-quit over this). That was mostly just sour grapes. :P

DM aka Dudemeister wrote:
It sounds like your major beef is loss of agency. A valid complaint. Tell your GM to take it easy with the fiat, ask to keep your monk dead so you can play the new character without cheapening death.

I think you've hit my nail right on the head. The thing I like most about gaming is hanging out with my friends. A close second is a fun, engaging narrative. Having a character die can (and sometimes should) be a part of that narrative. But this just seems a little off. It feels silly to say that something "cheapens" the death of an RPG character, but that's exactly how it felt. I had worked through my grief for my monk and was ready to move on with a new character, gosh darnit! :P

Drama queen!

JrK wrote:
It's like a scripted event in games. Annoying.

Yeah. But I guess it was a relief, in a weird way, to find out that it only felt like my GM was trying to kill me because my GM was actually trying to kill me.

Lochmonster wrote:
It sounds like you will soon have a GMNPC on your adventures....Yay?

Oh gosh, I hope not. The last thing we need is somebody who's strong enough to raise the dead without penalty holding our hands as we waltz through the castle.

Lochmonster wrote:
Also your GM leading you around by the nose is annoying. Did the high level guy HAVE to raise you? He couldn't have just, ya know, cast a few CLWs?

He hasn't done it yet (next session tomorrow), so I guess we'll see how it plays out. I really did like my monk, so it sems silly to bad mouth getting her back, but... I dunno. People are weird ,and I'm a people.

Thanks for letting me complain. I think I feel better now. :P


Motivation and pre-meditated murder aside, a point of RAW:

All rays produced by Scorching Ray spell, even though their attacks are resolved individually, are resolved simultaneously ( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/scorching-ray ). Unless the caster has a solid idea that single ray will drop his target, it'd be reasonable to assume he'd focus his attacks on one enemy to maximize odds of a kill, don'tchathink?


Get an honourable death in combat, get raised up like nothing happened.

Urgh.

Don't take the free raise dead. You call the shots for your character buddy.


I've never liked the idea of killing off a character just so a GM can introduce an npc or for story effect there are other ways to do both those things

Cheliax

JrK wrote:
It's like a scripted event in games. Annoying.

Thats exactly it. Its a sketchy DM planned death. Its one thing when your character dies during the course of action, its another when its planned no matter what as a plot device.

I think the biggest problem is your DM broke the social contract that your group seems to have. As you said, you seemed suprised- "In our gaming circle, the usual protocol is to go after a threat who isn't unconscious in this situation."

He could have introduced his NPC without killing someone. There are other ways. I'd tell him you want a new character.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sorry to nit pick. But the OP said he had no weapons to lay down, but then he throws his magic spear at the monster? Just curious as to where the spear came from.

On the main subject, the DM should have talked with you if her was planning to do this to you out of game to see if you were OK with it.

Curious where this encounter is from, too.


Sitting out for a session to cool down is maybe a good idea. If you don't act petty about it, it will give everyone (including you) a bit to reflect on your absence. You'll have a chance to build a character you really like. Chances are good that when you come back, they'll be glad to have you.


Pippi wrote:
... He tells me not to worry about it because he was having an NPC come in who would raise my monk and kill the baddie we were fighting. ...

I hate a GM NPC who comes in and saves the day. Then what is the point of my character being there?

Pippi wrote:
... He had planned on killing someone in the crypt so he could introduce this other dude. He told me my monk wouldn't take any level loss from this, because it had all been a part of his scheme ...

This is irritating but not quite as bad. Sometimes there is (and should be) an encounter that is mortaly dangerous. But I think it could have been handled differently.


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3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Get an honourable death in combat, get raised up like nothing happened.

Urgh.

Don't take the free raise dead. You call the shots for your character buddy.

I kinda agree here. And if you do take it, at least take the appropriate penalties.


Is there a follow up here? What happened at the next session?

/curious george


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I would hate to be in your place.
Do no forget you get to know the alignment AND divinity of the raiser
If I were you , I would point your DM to this thread .


If the char ended for you, refuse to come back.

Plenty of other characters to play! Sometimes people get too caught up in the fate of that single adventurer they are controlling. The problems of immersion and caring I suppose.


3.5 Loyalist wrote:

If the char ended for you, refuse to come back.

Plenty of other characters to play! Sometimes people get too caught up in the fate of that single adventurer they are controlling. The problems of immersion and caring I suppose.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but it seems like you didn't read the whole post. The issue isn't that the character is dead, the issue is how he died.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Plus, what's wrong with a bit of immersion and caring about a character because the character's fun? To each their own, right? :)


Yep pretty well what the other posters said, I just ran this part of the adventure the other week and it was pretty close to killing off a few of the players. But gunning for a PC to add some extra dramatic effect for an NPC? If it wasn't intentional maybe but this feels like the DM is straitjacketing outcomes (which really doesn't need anymore straitjacketing in an AP).

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