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Gunslinger Targeting: Broken?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


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I am DMing a group that just got two new gunslingers. Pretty soon, I ran in to this little gem:

PRD wrote:

Targeting (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can make a single firearm attack and choose part of the body to target. She gains the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that part cannot be targeted. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform no matter which part of the creature she targets. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are immune to these effects.

Arms: On a hit, the target takes no damage from the hit but drops one carried item of the gunslinger’s choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items held in a locked gauntlet are not dropped on a hit.
Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and is also confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone. Creatures that have four or more legs or that are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.
Torso: Targeting the torso threatens a critical on a 19–20.
Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and must make a DC 20 Fly check or fall 20 ft.

Confusion with no save? Disarm or trip with no check? All for a touch attack with no penalty?

Someone convince me this isn't broken.


It is a cool ability, no question.

The limiting factor here is that gunslingers just don't get that much grit per day. It's only equal to their wisdom modifier. And they never want to spend their last point of grit, because then they lose other abilities, so you're probably only talking about 2-3 times a day, unless they actually took a feat to get extra grit. They do refill grit when they get a crit, but it's never going to be something they use very often; maybe once a combat.

Also, you're only talking about confusing someone for 1 round, which isn't that big a deal. It basically takes them out of combat for one round, except there's a 25% chance they hit you anyway. Disarm and trip are also only things that disable an enemy for a round or so until they get up or pick their weapon up or draw their backup weapon.

Those are all very cool things to do, but disabling one enemy for one round 2-3 times a day isn't really unbalancing, IMHO.


While I don't like called shots being no harder than regular attacks, my main issue is the auto-success. The attack doesn't even have to do damage.

A CR 18 Great Wyrm White Dragon has a touch AC of 5. A level 7 gunslinger would have to roll a 1 to miss. Nevermind that the dragon has DR 20/magic, a CMD of 51, and +15 to his worst save. That CR 18 is confused.


What you're forgetting in that scenario is that it's a dragon.


The Mighty Khan wrote:

While I don't like called shots being no harder than regular attacks, my main issue is the auto-success. The attack doesn't even have to do damage.

A CR 18 Great Wyrm White Dragon has a touch AC of 5. A level 7 gunslinger would have to roll a 1 to miss. Nevermind that the dragon has DR 20/magic, a CMD of 51, and +15 to his worst save. That CR 18 is confused.

This is what confused means:

01–25 Act normally.
26–50 Do nothing but babble incoherently.
51–75 Deal 1d8 points of damage + Str modifier to self with item in hand.
76–100 Attack nearest creature (for this purpose, a familiar counts as part of the subject's self).

Assuming that the dragon is alone, there's still a 50% chance that it either acts normally or attacks one of the party members. And it wears off after one round. So the gunslinger just used up about a third of his daily resources to do an action that only has a 50% chance of stopping the dragon for one round. And if it's a level 7 gunslinger, then I'm pretty sure the dragon kills him in that one round. And, of course, with DR 20, the gunslinger probably can't even hurt the dragon, so if he does manage to stop the dragon for one round it does him no real good.

Cheliax

Keep in mind that this ability requires a full-round action...so the Gunslinger must decide whether it is worth spending a grit point and getting off one shot with a brief consequence, or get two or more shots off for damage.

Also keep in mind that these effects are nothing compared to 4th level Wizard spells. Confusion spell lasts much longer than one round.


The Mighty Khan wrote:

I am DMing a group that just got two new gunslingers. Pretty soon, I ran in to this little gem:

PRD wrote:

Targeting (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can make a single firearm attack and choose part of the body to target. She gains the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that part cannot be targeted. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform no matter which part of the creature she targets. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are immune to these effects.

Arms: On a hit, the target takes no damage from the hit but drops one carried item of the gunslinger’s choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items held in a locked gauntlet are not dropped on a hit.
Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and is also confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone. Creatures that have four or more legs or that are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.
Torso: Targeting the torso threatens a critical on a 19–20.
Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and must make a DC 20 Fly check or fall 20 ft.

Confusion with no save? Disarm or trip with no check? All for a touch attack with no penalty?

Someone convince me this isn't broken.

Yep, one of the reasons I said no at a player when he wanted to play a gunslinger.


If you say no to that your should say no to Spellcasters.


Save or suck, not spend a grit and no save. A significant difference for me.

Course there are some interesting no save spells, but they consume slots, and there are plenty of ways to get around spells.


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That is a good point, though I counter that the Gunslinger has a finite number of slots as well.

Really I would just ban or house rule that part of targeting shot, or make him take an archetype that replaces it.


I really think a gunslinger is usually better off saving his grit for quick clearing of his gun. It's too limited a resource for those targeting tricks to usually be even worthwhile.

Even without the saving throw, you're just trading one of your rounds for maybe one enemy round, with a 25% chance of not even doing that, and you're blowing a huge percentage of your daily resources to do that. It's hardly broken; it's usually not even worth doing.


Of all that, the only one thats most effective is the arm shot to disarm. Sure it's a Full action but being able to disarm a guy from X feet away while the party MELEE-WHALE closes is always awesome.

3.5 Loyalist wrote:

Save or suck, not spend a grit and no save. A significant difference for me.

Course there are some interesting no save spells, but they consume slots, and there are plenty of ways to get around spells.

You ARE aware that this power has about 1/5th the power of a save or suck spell, and that these do only one bullet of damage (Plus Dex if musket master) I hardly call it broken, specially since the DM is totally capable of bringing in the optional called shot rules for modifiers to this


By the time you get this at seventh level, grit is far more precious than spell slots, and fourth-level spells are doing far more than this. Grit isn't as plentiful as rounds of rage or bardic performance or spells; try actually spamming this in a game and see how far that gets you, theorycrafters.

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