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Trickster is a bit dissappointing.


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It seems to be by far the most boring path, which is a shame because it's the one I was the most excited about by a large margin. Lots of its path abilities seem to need a lot of work.

Assured Drinker: Take an extra turn or drink a potion as a swift action. It's an okay ability, but definitely not at the level of the path abilities of the others.

Assured Skill: Not sure of many situations where this would be useful. In combat, you're obviously going to have better options. Outside of combat, most checks aren't that binary anyways.

Astounding Disable: Big step in the right direction. Being able to go from 2d4 rounds to a move action is definitely more mythic.

Critical Skill: Most skill checks don't really take that much time. In most situations, there's absolutely no difference in whether you do something in 10 minutes or 5 minutes, 6 days or 3 days. And most importantly, most of the time you're not going to roll a 20. This is one of the most circumstantial abilities I've ever seen, the point of being almost useless.

Critical Tinkerer: And this one is even more circumstantial.

Defensive Move: It's nice as it is. Rather than being forced to take it twice, why not make it scale with your mythic tier though?

Enduring Elixer: Handy.

Fickle Attack: It works out to a half a point of damage for each d6 in exchange for more than doubling the time it takes you to roll and add up your damage. Not worth the hassle.

Improbable Prestidigitation: Lots of fun. Swipe the amulet and make it vanish. Hide your daggers and smaller magic items as you're infiltrating the prison. And so on. I don't really see the need for the Sleight of Hand check though and it's one of those things I wish would scale with your tier.

Itemcraft: Maybe someone else can see how a 1-5 boost in caster level is worthwhile, but I can't. And what charged items are so valuable that they'd make it worth it to use your mythic power to fuel them?

Majestic Countenance: It fits well enough.

Path Dabbling: Clearly the best path ability ever, not much else to be said.

Ranged Disable: Useful and full of style.

Supreme Stealth: The fact that those senses can make your stealth useless in the first place is harsh enough. Being forced to take this 4 times for full coverage is just painful.

This Might Just Work: Useful enough, except for the whole 1/day or mythic power bit.

Unwavering Skill: It's okay.

All in all, these feel more like rogue tricks or alchemist discoveries rather than MYTHIC powers. In my mind, a mythic rogue should be able to slip out of a forcecage, empty a king's treasury or a dragon's hoard like a magic trick, run along water, walls, falling debris, or even a hail of arrows with ease, and steal thing's like a wizard's name or a dragon's heart without the target even realizing.

In more specific terms, I'd like it if the Trickster had more options that focused on mythical levels of agility, deception, and thievery rather than this kind of weird focus on slightly boosting skill checks and using consumable magic items.

Editor, Jon Brazer Enterprises

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That's about how I feel right now. Jason has said there will be more path abilities in the full release, but the Trickster seems to be lacking for the playtest. This is problematic, because the Trickster's going to feel weaker than the rest of the paths, by and large, in the playtest, even if the abilities in the full book make them equal to everyone else.

I'm crossing my fingers for an updated playtest release with some more options for them.


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I endorse this post 100%. The trickster looks underwhelming and not very much of trickster, in spite of having a few decent abilities.

Stealth is poor already and Supreme Stealth is stupid. How could that possibly be considered supreme? Maybe it should cover the entire range and also make you invisible whenever you make a token effort to conceal yourself.

I'm unlikely to choose anything which needs a natural 20 on a skill check just to start working.

If tricksters are skill heroes, don't just grant them a chance of succeeding in a narrow situation, or a situational bonus if they're lucky. That should already be free.
Let them fly with Jump, suddenly disappear with Stealth and make targets hallucinate with Bluff.
If the champion and tackle a devil out of the air, the trickster should be able to casually hitch a ride on one without it noticing.

Am I the only one who thinks this path should not be aimed at alchemists? They aren't archetypally tricksters and alchemist-focused trickster abilities don't seem synergistic or on-theme.


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Metis wrote:

Itemcraft: Maybe someone else can see how a 1-5 boost in caster level is worthwhile, but I can't. And what charged items are so valuable that they'd make it worth it to use your mythic power to fuel them?

Easy -- you have a staff that is too powerful for you to recharge on your own. With this ability, the staff goes from being a temporary, consumable resource into one that you can use indefinitely as long as you power it with your mythic power instead of its charges.


Mortuum wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this path should not be aimed at alchemists? They aren't archetypally tricksters and alchemist-focused trickster abilities don't seem synergistic or on-theme.

Agreed. I particularly don't like that one of the trickster core abilities is "bomb as hard as you can."

I do like that, oddly enough, the ranged rogue is entirely possible due to Suprise Strike. Path Dabbling -> Through Shot. Great that you can't use Fistful of Daggers to deal sneak attack damage, though, as that'd be just too powerful. *rolleyes*

I don't like that if you play to 20, the draw of surprise strike-- flat-footing people even if they have improved uncanny dodge-- is baked into Supreme Trickster, which makes your choice of Surprise Strike pointless.


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Based off Metis' requests, here's some ideas off the cuff. They'd likely need wording revisions/balance:

Impossible Dodge: When struck by a melee or ranged attack, you may make a Reflex save (DC equal to the opponent's attack result) to negate the attack.

Master of Escape: You may use an Escape Artist check in place of the saving throw you normally would be allowed to resist spells or spell-like that limit or hinder mobility, such as hold person, entangle and forcecage. For spells that do not allow a saving throw to bypass, such as wall of force, the Trickster is allowed to make an escape artist check against the DC of the spell or effect +10.

Weightless Step: When running or charging, the trickster may move in any direction without risk of falling. They may ascend into the air as if walking on the wind, cross running water, run along a vertical surface, and other impossible feats. They must begin and end their movement on a solid surface.

Spell Thief: You may use the steal combat maneuver to steal a prepared spell from a spellcaster. If the combat maneuver is successful, the trickster randomly steals a prepared spell of the highest level the target can cast. The target loses the spell as if it had been cast. If the trickster has a high enough Charisma score, he may cast the spell. The DC for the stolen spell is 10 + spell level + trickster's charisma modifier.

If the target is a spontaneous caster adn the combat maneuver is successful, the trickster steals a spell slot of the highest level the target can cast and may cast one of the target's known spells of that level (determined randomly).

If the trickster must cast the spell in the following round after stealing it, or the energy is lost.

Shadow Lodge

Lucent wrote:

Spell Thief: You may use the steal combat maneuver to steal a prepared spell from a spellcaster. If the combat maneuver is successful, the trickster randomly steals a prepared spell of the highest level the target can cast. The target loses the spell as if it had been cast. If the trickster has a high enough Charisma score, he may cast the spell. The DC for the stolen spell is 10 + spell level + trickster's charisma modifier.

If the target is a spontaneous caster adn the combat maneuver is successful, the trickster steals a spell slot of the highest level the target can cast and may cast one of the target's known spells of that level (determined randomly).

If the trickster must cast the spell in the following round after stealing it, or the energy is lost.

I LOVE this. If this (or something similar) doesn't make it into the final version I am houseruling it in.


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Some more:

Decoy: As a move action, the trickster may make a Bluff check on a target within 30 feet. If successful, he may designate any adjacent creature as his "decoy" and through subterfuge and underhanded tactics any melee attacks, ranged attacks or targeted spells against the trickster by the Bluffed target instead effect his decoy. This effect lasts for one round, regardless of if the decoy moves away from an adjacent position to the trickster.

Charming Redirection: When the trickster is targeted with a mind-effecting spell or spell-like ability and he successfully saves to resist it, he may instead redirect the effect to another creature within 30 feet as an immediate action. The redirected target must save against the spell as if they were the original intended target.

Shadow Lodge

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Lucent wrote:

Some more:

Decoy: As a move action, the trickster may make a Bluff check on a target within 30 feet. If successful, he may designate any adjacent creature as his "decoy" and through subterfuge and underhanded tactics any melee attacks, ranged attacks or targeted spells against the trickster by the Bluffed target instead effect his decoy. This effect lasts for one round, regardless of if the decoy moves away from an adjacent position to the trickster.

"HE DID IT!" *points wildly*

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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I agree that there is some room for improvement on the Trickster and you should not be surprised if I steal a few of the ideas that have popped up in this thread. Keep em coming.

(although on an anecdotal level, looking at some of the rest of the content I have gotten for this path, some of these are already covered.. they just did not make it in time for the playtest)

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer


That was my attempt at replicating the old "log trick" that ninjas do in pop fiction, plus maybe a slice of Bugs Bunny...


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Crime Spree: By expending a point of mythic power, the trickster may attempt a steal combat maneuver against every opponent within reach.

Stolen Talent: By expending a point of mythic power, the trickster may attempt a steal combat maneuver against an adjacent opponent. If successful, he may steal one of the target's feats to use as his own, and deprives the target of that feat for the duration of stolen talent. The trickster may not steal a feat for which he does not have the prerequisites. The trickster treats any stolen feat with an ability score requirement as requiring a sufficient Dexterity score, regardless of the original ability score. Stolen talent lasts for 1 round per mythic tier.

Stolen Voice: A trickster may make a steal combat maneuver against an adjacent target to render them unable to speak. If successful the trickster renders his target mute, and may opt to speak in the stolen voice using any languages the trickster knows. Stolen voice lasts for 1 round per two mythic tiers.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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Crime Spree... HA!

Jason

Shadow Lodge

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Crime Spree... HA!

Jason

I concur!

Cheliax

Lucent wrote:
Stolen Voice: A trickster may make a steal combat maneuver against an adjacent target to render them unable to speak. If successful the trickster renders his target mute, and may opt to speak in the stolen voice using any languages the trickster knows. Stolen voice lasts for 1 round per two mythic tiers.

Yeeesssss...


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Elephant in the Crowd: By spending one point of mythic power, the trickster may make a stealth check as a full-round action to render himself and his actions innocuous to onlookers. Targets observing the trickster when he makes this check may make an opposed Perception check, while individuals not observing the trickster at the time the check is made may not make a check unless they attempt to interact with the trickster (intentionally or otherwise) or are interacted with by the trickster.

Subjects who fail their Perception checks (or those who were not observing the trickster initially) ignore the trickster and his action as being harmless or otherwise mundane. His movement and actions do not appear suspicious. He disappears into his environment, becoming unobtrusive and unremarkable.

While Elephant in the Crowd is active all opponents are considered flat-footed to the trickster. Anyone subject to interaction by the trickster (such as victim of a sleight of hand to pick pockets or a non-damaging targeted spell) may make a new Perception check to notice the trickster. A victim targeted by a melee or ranged attack, or a damaging spell may make a new Perception check at a +10 bonus.

Elephant in the Crowd lasts for 1 round per mythic tier.


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Pilfered Morality: By expending a point of mythic power, the trickster may attempt a sleight of hand check on an adjacent target. If successful, he temporarily appears to have the same alignment as the victim. Spells and abilities that detect alignments or alignment-dependent abilities or items detect the victim's alignment, not the trickster's. The trickster does not know what the target's alignment is, unless he has other means of detecting it independently. Pilfered morality lasts for 1 minute per mythic tier.


I think that with Mythic abilities, it should be about doing things that you just can't normally do. So boosting a skill check isn't really mythic, because there are plenty of feats, class features, and especially magic items and spells that will boost your skills already. Anyhoo, contributing!

In the Shadows: By expending a point of mythic power, the trickster may leave the party to continue on their own. At any time in the next 24 hours, the trickster may then reappear before the party, appearing from a concealed hatch in the ceiling, a secret tunnel, or even a normal entrance like a window. The trickster may also reveal himself as any NPC with half his level or lower, explaining that it was him in a clever disguise all along.

Always liked that stunt in FATE.

Treasure Stash: The trickster gains a stash of treasure equal to his current wealth by level in copper and silver coins. He may only use this extra treasure to purchase non-magical goods and services. Whenever you gain a level, your stash increases by the corresponding amount. Many tricksters keep their stash stored in large city banks, personal mansions, or the like.

Just the Thing: By spending a point of Mythic Power, a trickster may pull out a magic item with a cost up to their mythic rank x 1000gp. The magic item is actually a cheap knockoff that they purchased or "purchased" at a bargain and breaks down after five minutes of use.


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I would love to see a buffed version of the Pathfinder Chronicler's Deep Pockets ability. Being able to carry around a set amount of GP/mythic tier in "unspecified items" would be a really nice power for a trickster-type character.

Taldor RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Metis wrote:
Critical Skill: Most skill checks don't really take that much time. In most situations, there's absolutely no difference in whether you do something in 10 minutes or 5 minutes, 6 days or 3 days. And most importantly, most of the time you're not going to roll a 20. This is one of the most circumstantial abilities I've ever seen, the point of being almost useless.

I'd suggest that this talent allow you to take 20 in less time as well. I suppose since taking 20 is equivalent to rolling a natural 20 on your 20th attempt, it does reduce the time for take 20 to 19.5 times normal. :P

metis wrote:
Itemcraft: And what charged items are so valuable that they'd make it worth it to use your mythic power to fuel them?

Ring of three wishes. Luckblade. Nine lives stealer.


Lucent those ideas are great.

I would enjoy playing such a rogue. Remember Mug from Final Fanstasy Maybe that would make a great feat "Mythic Steal - when making successful a sneak attack you may make one steal attempted as a free action. Spending one use of Mythic power Allow you to steal for every successful sneak attack."

You still need improved steal to avoid aao and greater steal to avoid detection that something was stolen.


I am loving all of these.

Andoran

I'm adding these for my trickster.


Well done, Lucent, I'm really liking some of those.


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Instant Paranoia: If you make a successful bluff check against an opponent you can spend one point of Mythic Power to fill the mind of the opponent with Paranoia. Select another creature that is visible to the target of your bluff check. Treat that creature as having made a successful intimidation use of the antagonize feat against the target of your bluff check.

Antagonize


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Yeah, those are some good, tricksterish ideas. Blowing stuff up will never feel like a trickster to me, but stealing somebody's voice? Hell yes.

Now we need Steal Identity, which makes everybody who fails a will save mistake you for the target and the target for a stranger. Possibly the save DC would be based on a check to disguise yourself made as part of the action.

Seconding buffed deep pockets.

If this path has a tool use and adaptability theme, how about an ability which allows you to use any object you are carrying as any other object the same size?

It would cost mythic power and wouldn't be able to imitate special materials or magical properties.
Anybody who would be affected by an object being used as something else gets a will save to be affected normally instead.
Should last for a few rounds before the object is treated normally again.
This lets you cut people with drawings of swords, detonate fresh fruit, wear a rug as a suit of armour and pay for your dinner with rocks. It also lets you eat damn near anything and have it taste like chocolate, just so long as you're ok with having it in your stomach once the effect runs out.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I had a similar feeling on my initial read through of the trickster. These however...just...bravo. *slow clap* Just brilliant! Keep them coming!


Oh, forgot a detail for object substitution: If you use a creature you are carrying as an object, it gets a will save to resist. If the cat is not explicitly cooperating with you, it probably won't take kindly to being used to saw through a door, even if it won't be harmed any worse than a real saw would be.


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Phantasmal Hitchhiker: When a trickster is in the area of effect of an illusion spell (such as hallucinatory terrain or silent image) the trickster may expend a point of mythic power to "hitchhike" along with the spell effect. As long as he remains within the area of effect for the illusion, the trickster is considered to be invisible as he blends in to the illusory surroundings. Violent actions do not break this invisibility, but do grant the victim of such an attack to make a Will save (with a DC equal to the illusion effect the trickster is hitchhiking on) to disbelieve the illusion (and thereby see the trickster).

Dismantle: A trickster may spend a point of mythic power to make a Disable Device check as a standard action to deal damage to an adjacent creature of the construct type. The DC for this is equal equal to the construct's Combat Maneuver Defense. A successful Disable Device check inflicts 1d6 points of damage per mythic tier, plus any additional sneak attack damage that the trickster may have (regardless of any potential immunity to precision damage the construct may possess). This damage bypasses any damage reduction the construct may have.

Summoned Ambush: A trickster may spend a point of mythic power to augment a summon monster spell or spell-like ability he can cast. Any creature the trickster summons using this power is invisible for their first round of combat.

Borrowed Magic: As a standard action a trickster may borrow a portion of power from an already extant spell. The trickster may spend a point of mythic power to share the benefit of one ongoing spell effect on an adjacent ally for one round per mythic tier. The trickster must stay adjacent to this ally for the spell to remain in effect on him.


You're blowing my mind Lucent.... Blowing. My. Mind.


Consolidated everything here so as to not threadjack too much and also keep things in one place.


Honestly, Trickster seems more of a benefit to an Alchemist (use extra extracts is huge, better throws is also neat).

As for what item are valuable enough to spend Mythic Power in place of a charge on? Anything with expensive material components is a good start.


I like the idea of trickster's abilities being based on skills instead of saves, with a bonus equal to your mythic tier. Not every single obviously, but a lot of them, like many of the ones Lucent is proposing, which are simply wonderful.


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Back of the Head: As a move action you can Make an acrobatics check vs the CMD of a creature larger than you. If successful you mount the creature near its head. As a standard action you can perform a modified Coup de Grace against the creature even though it is not helpless. You score an automatic critical hit against the creature. The creature does not need to make a fort save to stay alive. The creature can attempt to dislodge you by attempting to grapple you with a +4 bonus unless you choose to dismount as a swift action after the strike.

In your Ear: Instead of making an automatic critical hit as part of the "back of the head" power, you can instead whisper words of power in their ear and dominate them if they fail their will save treating them as a loyal war trained mount of INT 3 or less for a number of rounds equal to your mythic level. If you dismount the effect ends. Once a creature has been targeted by this power it is immune until the following day.

Editor, Jon Brazer Enterprises

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I agree that there is some room for improvement on the Trickster and you should not be surprised if I steal a few of the ideas that have popped up in this thread. Keep em coming.

(although on an anecdotal level, looking at some of the rest of the content I have gotten for this path, some of these are already covered.. they just did not make it in time for the playtest)

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Any chance of an updated playtest document prior to the release of the book next fall? I don't know if I can wait to use the rules as standard for my games, but I don't want Trickster folks to feel like they're getting less bang for their buck.


I can't not comment here, some of this stuff is realllly good :)like awesomely good, Lucent this right here if used would push trickster in a direction i would really love to see (I'm a fan of exalted for its social and utility "charms" (power/spell)) and as soon as i was reading mythic i was thinking i could really use it to run an exalted setting pathfinder game, but after reading the paths and abilities they had i was rethinking that statement. However if this is the treatment trickster gets (and then an entire social/"enchantment"/influence based path with this level of treatment)I would be really interested in the Mythic book again.


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I can't think of anything that seems less "mythic" than Assured Drinker.


I really can not agree more with both the concerns expressed over the Trickster and the amazing ideas suggested in this thread.

I also love that Jason is paying attention and may take some of these ideas.

Here's a suggestion:

Reflective Disguise

A Trickster with this ability may make a Sense Motive check as a swift action, vs an opposed Bluff check. If successful, he may spend a Mythic Power point to assume the best disguise in order to get by the victim. If the target is unaware of the Trickster, he does not get a Bluff check.

This could also be a Will save and maybe it also grants a solid bonus to Disguise?

I also think it would be awesome for a Trickster to make non magical illusions via Bluff. Not sure how that would work, but it would definitely be Mythic.


Yeah looking at the options for my Rogue there wasn't a lot that really interested me. I do find Critical Skill kinda cool, but I would prefer more emphasis on the DM inventing benefits over just straight up decreasing time.


Roberta Yang wrote:
I can't think of anything that seems less "mythic" than Assured Drinker.

Yeah, I rolled my eyes at that one and started skimming for anything that sounded like it belonged. I guess part of the problem is they picked the most functional powers to test, rather than the flavourful ones.

I was hoping for something more like the archetypal tricksters of myth. I would so play a trickster if they were more like Coyote, Anansi, Loki and their ilk. Here's some things they do:

  • Wear people's skins as flawless disguises ("Why Grandma...")
  • Lie so well that their lies are functionally true, even when they should be found out. Selling the emperor his new clothes even though he can plainly see they're not there, for example. Could perhaps be represented as illusions caused by bluff checks.
  • Build tar babies and similar trick objects which elicit extreme emotional reactions. Would work just as well for a frightening scarecrow or a bugs bunny sexy girl outfit.
  • Master the magic of transformation. This doesn't have to mean spells. Disguise checks causing polymorph effects could work too. Or just opening up the disguise skill so you can make the fighter look like a mouse as a Su effect.
  • Teach people
  • Learn very fast (new tricks, that is. They never learn their lesson, become wiser or grow as a person)
  • Invent, use, steal or give away the secret of fire.
  • Embarrass themselves. Tricksters generally don't come up smelling of roses. They have to get dirty. Possibly some kind of get out of jail not-quite-free mechanic is in order here, where you escape your fate but make an ass of yourself in the process.

Reading through the trickster again, I have absolutely no idea why he's the stabby guy.
That reflects only the side of the Rogue class and company that has least to do with tricks. We already have the Champion as the damage dealer path, but the 3 basic abilities of the trickster all kill people in the face. Seems like you could move the "break stuff" and "drink stuff" abilities over to the champion, give it one general skill-buffing ability and declare the mobile damage dealer role well and truly covered.

How about instead of "trickster attacks", the trickster's three tier one abilities were based on feinting and manoeuvres?
I can see dirty trick, steal or trip fitting very well. That way, the trickster can attack you normally and annoy the hell out of you with a bonus at the same time.
Maybe the trick should let you feint or use one of a handful of manoeuvres as though you had the Improved feat, with the usual insight bonus as a swift action?

I think a very big mistake has been made here. The more think about this, the less appropriate the path seems.
It needs to be far more magical/impossible (although not primarily aimed at spellcasters), have a more mythic feel and, most importantly, actually BE a trickster. There's a colossal amount of baggage attached to that name, let's see if it can't live up to it.


Leaving a dot here for awesome Lucent stuff.


WWLD

What would Loki do ;)


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Loki would get himself impregnated by a horse and give birth to a freak of nature with too many legs.

Shadow Lodge

*SNERK*


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Lucent wrote:

Phantasmal Hitchhiker: When a trickster is in the area of effect of an illusion spell (such as hallucinatory terrain or silent image) the trickster may expend a point of mythic power to "hitchhike" along with the spell effect. As long as he remains within the area of effect for the illusion, the trickster is considered to be invisible as he blends in to the illusory surroundings. Violent actions do not break this invisibility, but do grant the victim of such an attack to make a Will save (with a DC equal to the illusion effect the trickster is hitchhiking on) to disbelieve the illusion (and thereby see the trickster).

Sadly, one of the first things I thought of here was "my party all failed the save to disbelieve the illusion. I'll become part of it and smack them upside the head until they succeed!"

Which is cool, but, well... no, it's just cool. And a fun way to solve such a problem.
Until the trickster decides to apply sneak attack damage to his party.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Roberta Yang wrote:
I can't think of anything that seems less "mythic" than Assured Drinker.

Unless of course, you happen to be an alchemist. Important thing to remember is that these paths aren't just aimed at one class.

I've decided that my flagship Arcane Trickster is going to take the Trickster path and dual path to Archmage as the capstone of the first suits him more in character.

Don't forget the universal choices as well.


LazarX wrote:
Unless of course, you happen to be an alchemist.

I didn't say it was a weak ability. I said it didn't feel very "mythic". Slightly faster drinking isn't a power I expect bards to sing of for generations.


It actually CAN be mythic, since it's not about the drinking, but what the characters who would choose it can achieve by drinking two things at once, or drinking while kicking your ass. The bards will sing about how you buffed yourself into a monster and clobbered the guy. They won't care how you were able to drink that fast.

Nothing about it says trickster to me though, on any level.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It is really super hyper mega dissapointing that the trickster is so much about alchemists. I know there are many fans of them, but give something to the rogue, the original role, and then something to ninja´s as alternatives and then bards. After that you can do something for alchemists. It really sucks this way.

Some feats that do something when you roll a natural 20? Great and funny, but not usefull very often. That could become a common feature of the game, since many people do this as a houserule already anyway. Just like the Gang-up feat.

Supreme Stealth is cool, but having to take it 4 times is too much. Stealth is already difficult and needs other feats like skill focus etc to be really dedicated or expensive magic items. Not mentioning the rules updated you put into the farest back of your drawer because you couldnt get to a point like it seems.

Itemcraft is a real good thing though, but ir could give a bonus on UMD.


I think trickster should also have plenty of things for illusionist/enchanter spellcasters as well. Archmage has plenty for raw magical onslaught, but very little subtlety or subterfuge.

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