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The Pregenerated Revolution - A Vote for Change


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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*****

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As if there weren't enough pregenerated character threads going right now. ;-)

I'm making a proposal. I want all of you to review it and reply with yay or nay. If you're against this proposal, please include reasons so they can be objectively evaluated and weighed. If you're for this proposal and you have any additional support or shared experiences, please add them to your vote.

I believe this is the right time to make this change.

Per Mark, at this exact point in time, a Paizo Developer needs to tweak the new level 1 and level 7 NPC Codex iconics for use for PFS. They also need to develop the level 4 iconics as the book does not include that level.

My proposal:

  • Continue with the plan to tweak the level 1 iconics from the NPC Codex.
  • Scratch development time on the level 7 iconics from the NPC codex.
  • Develop level 5 iconics for PFS play instead of level 4.
  • Release pregens for PFS play for every core class at levels 1 and 5 only.
  • Refer GM's to existing level 7 pregens OR level 7 iconics from the NPC Codex for GM PC's only. Level 7 pregens would not be available to players for use.

My reasons to support changing from level 4 to level 5 are because level 5 gives you:

  • Play subtier 4-5 of a tier 1-5 scenario. Being the of the highest level and strongest you can be at that tier, thus compensating for lack of player investment or knowledge.
  • Play either subtier in a tier 3-7 scenario. Flexibility.
  • Play any subtier in an old tier 1-7 scenario. Flexibility.
  • Play the 5-6 subtier of a tier 5-9 scenario. Not a great option for those wanting to play subtier 8-9, but better than a level 7 playing at 10-11!
  • One more feat than the level 4's.
  • 3rd level spells for clerics, druids, and wizards.
  • Divine Bond for the Paladins.
  • Channel 3d6. Sneak attack 3d6.

My reasons to remove level 7 pregens from players hands:

  • Players lack investment in pregenerated characters. This is especially deadly to "real" high level characters.
  • Real 7+ characters have spent 90+ hours building and earning their character. It's a (small) slap to the face to play with someone who's playing a character that hasn't earned their seat at the table.
  • Tier 7-11 scenarios are no place for people new to PFRPG. It's complicated and deadly. It often results in the death of the pregen and a loss of interest for that player.
  • Level 5 also suffers from the two above conditions, but to a much lesser degree.

IMPORTANT NOTE: The proposal actually saves some development time up front with the 11 core classes. It would then add time back in to develop the level 5 UC classes at a later date. It would then save time doing the APG classes, as there would only be two levels to develop. Overall, it is a net savings of Paizo's time.

*****

signed

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Yay.

My only reservation is the temptation there will be to play up to subtier 6-7 in tier 3-7 scenarios.

Silver Crusade ****

Yay. I will stand behind this initiative.

Grand Lodge ****

Faq'd

*****

Paz wrote:

Yay.

My only reservation is the temptation there will be to play up to subtier 6-7 in tier 3-7 scenarios.

that is a decision the table as a whole needs to make .. not something we can really decide at this moment on the forums.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Paz wrote:
My only reservation is the temptation there will be to play up to subtier 6-7 in tier 3-7 scenarios.

Thankz Paz (see what I did therez?). That would be an option though, right? It's there now with the level 4's which would be even riskier.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I can support this initiative.

I'd also like to re-emphasize the opportunity of the timing: there's actually less development to do than if this idea is passed up. Tweaking the firsties is a wash, producing 5th level pregens instead of 4th level pregens is a wash, and you save time by not needing to do anything with the 7th level stuff.

One of the most-cited reasons for a change not happening (or not happening yet) is the development time required. Here we have a rare opportunity to try something new while saving time instead of spending extra time.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

I am generally in favor of this proposal, despite it's slight reduction in play opportunities for people, because the people for whom it would be a benefit rather than a detriment are relatively few.

That said, I've seen a lot of strong, table-carrying play out of some of the level 7 pregen use in my region by players who had no PC in tier. Th ones it hurts strong players with lots of system mastery and/or freelancing credits but not a lot of PFS (or a PFS-on-hard-mode player), though, so I suspect they're rather the exception to people's experiences...

Still... Signed!

MUCH lower odds of a table-of-death in Rebel's Ransom when it's 6 pregens and a real 9....

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TetsujinOni wrote:
MUCH lower odds of a table-of-death in Rebel's Ransom when it's 6 pregens and a real 9....

FIRESTORM!

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kyle Baird wrote:
TetsujinOni wrote:
MUCH lower odds of a table-of-death in Rebel's Ransom when it's 6 pregens and a real 9....
FIRESTORM!

And then 5ft step to the REDACTED and grab the REDACTED to shut the door and split the party!

Shadow Lodge ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

No.

If someone winds up with a level 6 character, but the only available table is going 7+, i don't want to have to relegate someone to wandering around with nothing to do for 5 hours or go home early.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

That seems like an incredibly specific situation. You really feel it outweighs the benefits of this idea? How often does someone unknowingly show up to an event that's running nothing but 7-11?

*****

BigNorseWolf wrote:

No.

If someone winds up with a level 6 character, but the only available table is going 7+, i don't want to have to relegate someone to wandering around with nothing to do for 5 hours or go home early.

Valid concern, and I appreciate the air of inclusivness that you're going for, however, I think it's also valid to point out that players aren't always going to get to play every slot. That explanation and encouragment to work on leveling up their character should help to smooth over bent feelings.

If this is a local, regular player then make the committment to them to work with them to provide scenarios to get to that level and then run the lvl 7 scenario again for them.

** just my opinion**

Shadow Lodge ***

Jiggy wrote:
That seems like an incredibly specific situation. You really feel it outweighs the benefits of this idea? How often does someone unknowingly show up to an event that's running nothing but 7-11?

The other table(s) could be running something you've played before

The other table(s) may contain someone you're avoiding

The other table(s)may already be full

The event may have a sudden change of plans or be slapped together at the last minute. I think half of my con events have been something other than what I signed up for.

A new player might be turned off by trying to play at 7 but they will definitely be turned off by being told there's nothing for them to do.

Lots of people have a lot of gaming experience without having PFS experience.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:

No.

If someone winds up with a level 6 character, but the only available table is going 7+, i don't want to have to relegate someone to wandering around with nothing to do for 5 hours or go home early.

Thanks BNW. Have you ever had a bad experience with a table that had one or more level 7 pregens playing a tier 7-11 scenario? Either as a GM, Coordinator or player?

Shadow Lodge ***

Kyle Baird wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

No.

If someone winds up with a level 6 character, but the only available table is going 7+, i don't want to have to relegate someone to wandering around with nothing to do for 5 hours or go home early.

Thanks BNW. Have you ever had a bad experience with a table that had one or more level 7 pregens playing a tier 7-11 scenario? Either as a GM, Coordinator or player?

No, I haven't managed to have a character climb that high yet.

Taldor **** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I agree with everything here, but with one caveat: I do think that level 7 pregens may have a place for experienced players who had a character approaching that level, but whose character died. In that setting, it has value, because it can sometimes be difficult to assemble local tables for higher level scenarioos.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:

The other table(s) could be running something you've played before

The other table(s) may contain someone you're avoiding

The other table(s)may already be full

What if the other events you could actually play for any of these reasons were Eyes of the Ten or a 9th level module? Would you want to see a 9th or 12th level pregen for that player?

BigNorseWolf wrote:
The event may have a sudden change of plans or be slapped together at the last minute. I think half of my con events have been something other than what I signed up for.

I'm wondering how pervasive this is. I personally have the exact opposite experience and would love to hear from others. Is this because of how the conventions are organized or are you bouncing around and filling in holes?

*****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

No.

If someone winds up with a level 6 character, but the only available table is going 7+, i don't want to have to relegate someone to wandering around with nothing to do for 5 hours or go home early.

Thanks BNW. Have you ever had a bad experience with a table that had one or more level 7 pregens playing a tier 7-11 scenario? Either as a GM, Coordinator or player?
No, I haven't managed to have a character climb that high yet.

I would invite you to have that experience and then come back and discuss it with the rest of us. I have a feeling that you might change your answer.

*****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Netopalis wrote:
I agree with everything here, but with one caveat: I do think that level 7 pregens may have a place for experienced players who had a character approaching that level, but whose character died. In that setting, it has value, because it can sometimes be difficult to assemble local tables for higher level scenarios.

Thanks! I agree that assembling higher level scenarios is difficult, heck, multi-part 7-11 scenarios are the hardest of them all (except EotT). Are pregens the answer or solution to help with this? I recently moved to Milwaukee and asking around, it seems like there's only a handful of players who qualify for the 7-11 tier. To me, the answer isn't trying to schedule 7-11 scenarios and hoping to get 3 of them and a GM PC or a player running a pregen, it's to schedule more 3-7 and 5-9 scenarios to help those with mid-level characters get up to 7th level. It's also to encourage those with 7th+ characters to play alternate characters and be patient as we try to level up the community together.

I think part of the solution needs to be focusing on more 3-7 and 5-9 scenarios releases as well. I don't know what the exact mix is for the future, but it's getting better and I think scheduling 7-11 scenarios will only get easier.

Andoran *****

This seems reasonable to me.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
No, I haven't managed to have a character climb that high yet.
I would invite you to have that experience and then come back and discuss it with the rest of us. I have a feeling that you might change your answer.

To build more on what PFCBG is saying, I have literally wanted to walk away from a table because of a pregen at that tier. By the time you've gotten to that level, you're strongly invested in your character's survival and to have one or more people at the table with little to no investment really ruins the experience. From a GM perspective, I hate it for several reasons. For one, the game slows down because the player doesn't know the character. At 7-11, it's difficult to run those scenarios well and keep them on pace.

I do want to say that I agree, we are sacrificing some inclusiveness. My goal is to figure out exactly how much and if the proposal above outweighs the negatives.

Silver Crusade

I like the idea of changing the pregens to be more intuitive for newer players but dislike the idea of removing options even if they are fairly dangerous options.

At my local weekly PFS only a few level 5-9 players come regularly, so without being able to use level 7 pregens we would almost never be able to play higher level scenarios at all.

Cheliax **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Signed.

I also see this as a much more interesting way to introduce new players into Pathfinder & Society play at those level.
1st and 4th level do give a good overview of basic pathfinder play but do nothing to help players increase their system mastery and leaves them truly unprepared for how complicated the system can get at the higher tiers.

5th level pregens however are right at that sweet spot were all the options start opening up and players can really see if they like how a class plays without being totally overwhelmed by the glut of options.
An unmentioned side effect is this is where the WBL restrictions start falling off and pregens can actually have a decent/interesting piece of gear or two while still having SOME consumables to work with.

I really am intrigued by the possibilities here.

*****

GreenZ wrote:


I like the idea of changing the pregens to be more intuitive for newer players but dislike the idea of removing options even if they are fairly dangerous options.

At my local weekly PFS only a few level 5-9 players come regularly, so without being able to use level 7 pregens we would almost never be able to play higher level scenarios at all.

I agree that removing the higher tier option is less than ideal in certain circumstances ... if the lvl 7 options are still there for GM use only (as in.. table of three, GM can "play" the 4th character as a pregen) than that should be an ideal things for both sides.

However, scheduling the higher level games, when the people aren't there and having people playing up with pregens ... is less than ideal as that only sacrifices the available scenarios when you get to that level.

An option would be to have the higher level guys that are showing up, make lower levels that can help bolster the higher level ranks and then start in on the higher level scenarios when there are more regular players at that tier.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
GreenZ wrote:


I like the idea of changing the pregens to be more intuitive for newer players but dislike the idea of removing options even if they are fairly dangerous options.

At my local weekly PFS only a few level 5-9 players come regularly, so without being able to use level 7 pregens we would almost never be able to play higher level scenarios at all.

Do you have a level 7+ character? Have you experienced playing with a level 7 pregen? Pros/Cons?

Also, a level 5 pregen could play a tier 5-9 scenario. If you schedule enough level 5-9 scenarios, those players with level 5 and 6 characters will hit 7th level, making it easier to schedule tier 7-11 scenarios without the need for pregenerated characters.

Cheliax ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I guess my only question would be, who is going to create and develop the 17 new pregens that would need to be created? We saw how long it took for the 7 that are out now to be tweaked and edited.

Not only that but you eliminate flexibility in allowing walk-ins to sit down at a 7-11 table, both locally and at large cons, where tickets = $$

Lastly, think of the amount of paper that is going to be wasted printing out all of the pre-gens. I waste a ton of paper on pregens that aren't even used. Increasing the number of pregens just increases the amount of paper that I and a lot of other coordinators use when setting up conventions and game days. Not only that, ink is expensive and that is coming right out of my pocket.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Todd Morgan wrote:
I guess my only question would be, who is going to create and develop the 17 new pregens that would need to be created? We saw how long it took for the 7 that are out now to be tweaked and edited.

Mark Moreland: "We will be releasing free PDFs of each of the 11 core classes (just like we currently have for the basic 4 and the Ultimate Combat classes (though I don't have a time estimate on when these will be available). At present, the 1st-level versions will need minor wealth adjustments when making them into free PDFs and Ezren will need one feat swapped out. Other than that, the 1st- and 7th-level versions are ready to go. I or another developer will need to make a scaled-down 4th-level version of each in order to get all three versions of each done, but we're already 2/3 of the way there over being at square one before these statblocks were generated for the hardcover."

As you can see, it's already planned to produce pregens at 1st, 4th, and 7th. So Kyle's idea actually requires less development time than what's already being allocated.

Quote:
Not only that but you eliminate flexibility in allowing walk-ins to sit down at a 7-11 table, both locally and at large cons, where tickets = $$

Which is on purpose, for reasons described by both Kyle and PFCBG. I can't speak to their reasoning myself, but there you go.

Quote:
Lastly, think of the amount of paper that is going to be wasted printing out all of the pre-gens. I waste a ton of paper on pregens that aren't even used. Increasing the number of pregens just increases the amount of paper that I and a lot of other coordinators use when setting up conventions and game days. Not only that, ink is expensive and that is coming right out of my pocket.

Much like your development time concern, Kyle's idea will cost you less paper and ink than the current plan.

*****

Todd Morgan wrote:
Lastly, think of the amount of paper that is going to be wasted printing out all of the pre-gens. I waste a ton of paper on pregens that aren't even used. Increasing the number of pregens just increases the amount of paper that I and a lot of other coordinators use when setting up conventions and game days. Not only that, ink is expensive and that is coming right out of my pocket.

I'm going to preface this comment by saying, that I know you Todd and this doesn't sound like something you'd normally "whine" about.

However, that being said, isn't the out of pocket expense something that coordinators and GMs assume is going to be a given when they take on that role of providing a good gaming experience?

I don't see that as being a factor in this thread in so much as it's a thread about an overall betterment of the campaign vs. individual resource expendature.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

@Furious Kender - That's kind of a different topic, isn't it?

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well as Jiggy pointed out, ultimately you'd have less paperwork to print out.

When the new pregens are released there will be: 33 CRB Pregens, 18 APG Pregens, 9 UC Pregens.

With this proposal, there would only be 22 CRB, 12 APG and 6 UC.

Also, is it written somewhere that you have to provide copies of every pregen at an event? You could, as a coordinator, only offer the 4 basic classes and leave it at that.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Todd Morgan wrote:
Not only that but you eliminate flexibility in allowing walk-ins to sit down at a 7-11 table, both locally and at large cons, where tickets = $$

How often do people pay for event tickets for a specific 7-11 scenario without having a level 7+ character (serious question)?

How does this demand weigh vs. the quality of experience provided by a table with those pregens?
Has anyone scheduled Eyes of the Ten and had to turn a player away who signed up without a level 12 character?

**

Jiggy wrote:
@Furious Kender - That's kind of a different topic, isn't it?

I guess it was a bit different. Deleted

I really don't care one way or another which levels they come at, but I would like it if the pregens didn't require 10 minutes of fixing/explaining by other players.

Truthfully, I've never seen a level 7 pregen being played so their loss isn't a big deal for me. Probably because both the new player and the DM recognize that it's a bad idea.

Shadow Lodge **

Signed. I have seen a 7th-level pregen used only once, and that was because the player didn't feel like playing down that day. Getting rid of them makes sense to me.

Cheliax ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Kyle Baird wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
Not only that but you eliminate flexibility in allowing walk-ins to sit down at a 7-11 table, both locally and at large cons, where tickets = $$

How often do people pay for event tickets for a specific 7-11 scenario without having a level 7+ character (serious question)?

How does this demand weigh vs. the quality of experience provided by a table with those pregens?
Has anyone scheduled Eyes of the Ten and had to turn a player away who signed up without a level 12 character?

I saw quite a bit of this at GenCon fwiw

Silver Crusade ****

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:
However, that being said, isn't the out of pocket expense something that coordinators and GMs assume is going to be a given when they take on that role of providing a good gaming experience?

I didn't...I just say at the end of a scenario. If you thought this was worth your time, and you enjoyed it. Consider donating a dollar.

It more than covers my expenses.

I've adopted the "Donation" style of funding to pay for my entire stable of GM's adventures, and more if they'd let me. :P

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Todd Morgan wrote:
I saw quite a bit of this at GenCon fwiw

Thanks! If we didn't have level 7 pregens, do you think it could be managed another way? Finding alternate tables, running different scenarios? I remember in 2010 a lot of the 7-11's didn't even go off. I didn't run many of those the past two years so I don't know how it went.

It seems that at something like Gen Con, the 7-11's are the most likely to have open spots for random walk-in players. On the surface this seems great, but I question if we'd be better served with a different solution. Is forcing a 7-player table at a lower tier better than a pregen at a higher tier? Could we reserve the current 7th level pregens for these (extremely rare?) occurrences?

Andoran *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Here is My issue with this...

I see 7th Level Pregens useful for Experienced Players, I very strongly disagree with Kyle that the biggest danger is that the players have little or no interest in the Survival of their Pregen.

In My experience they very strongly have interest in that Pregens survival because they want that Credit!

The dangerous part is for brand new players, they are the ones you may have that problem with, but that is for any level.

Instead of a major change in Pregen make-up I would just suggest we as a Society strongly encourage not to let New players play at High level games with Pregens, going as far as adding that language to the Guide.

*****

Kyle Baird wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
I saw quite a bit of this at GenCon fwiw

Thanks! If we didn't have level 7 pregens, do you think it could be managed another way? Finding alternate tables, running different scenarios? I remember in 2010 a lot of the 7-11's didn't even go off. I didn't run many of those the past two years so I don't know how it went.

It seems that at something like Gen Con, the 7-11's are the most likely to have open spots for random walk-in players. On the surface this seems great, but I question if we'd be better served with a different solution. Is forcing a 7-player table at a lower tier better than a pregen at a higher tier? Could we reserve the current 7th level pregens for these (extremely rare?) occurrences?

I would rather the muster person come over to me and let me (as the GM) know what's going on and see if I have a lower level scenario ready to run and give the pregen players level 1 pregens ...

In the case I had at Gencon... there were 6 players ... 5 pregens .. there were other tables of the scenario going off w/out all pregnes. I would have rather had the real player settle onto one of those tables and then I would have run the pregens thru a lower level scenario and not dealt with people that didn't have the information needed for the characters.

The ninja pregen was borrowing my book in order to play the character, same with the samarai player ... the other three were core pregens and they were borrowing my book for those as none of them had their own books.

That table simply should not have happened. I take partial responsiblity as I didn't speak up like I should have to rectify the situation -- notes made for the next time lol.

The higher tiers are more likely to have walk-ins, however, that falls to the coordinators to have available GMs with lower level scenarios to avoid having to give out lvl 7 pregens and mixing tables.

****

Yes, please! Let's do this. Somebody with some sway should get the big guys to comment. ;)

*****

Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
Yes, please! Let's do this. Somebody with some sway should get the big guys to comment. ;)

has no sway .. just hip twitches

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:

Here is My issue with this...

I see 7th Level Pregens useful for Experienced Players, I very strongly disagree with Kyle that the biggest danger is that the players have little or no interest in the Survival of their Pregen.

In My experience they very strongly have interest in that Pregens survival because they want that Credit!

The dangerous part is for brand new players, they are the ones you may have that problem with, but that is for any level.

Instead of a major change in Pregen make-up I would just suggest we as a Society strongly encourage not to let New players play at High level games with Pregens, going as far as adding that language to the Guide.

Would you support the change from 4th level to 5th level? How about if we just kept the 4 main level 7's as is w/o developing and releasing them for all the CRB classes? Is there as great a need to have that many options at that level? (my experience is that it's 70% Kyra, 20% Valeros, 10% Ezren)

*****

Dragnmoon wrote:

Here is My issue with this...

I see 7th Level Pregens useful for Experienced Players, I very strongly disagree with Kyle that the biggest danger is that the players have little or no interest in the Survival of their Pregen.

In My experience they very strongly have interest in that Pregens survival because they want that Credit!

The dangerous part is for brand new players, they are the ones you may have that problem with, but that is for any level.

Instead of a major change in Pregen make-up I would just suggest we as a Society strongly encourage not to let New players play at High level games with Pregens, going as far as adding that language to the Guide.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think that would take care of the problem ... because people are still going to see that the pregens are out there and want to use them... and sometmes it's the experienced players that are more of a problem with the higher level pregens than the new players

Andoran *****

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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I can only base my Opinion on my Experience, and in my experience when Organizing, I only sit players down with a Pregen when absolutely necessary and their are no other options. By removing 7th level pregens that removes an option I have in my back pocket as an organizer, and I am never a fan of removing options for organizers.

With new players I have many more options then an experienced player, I never have to worry about did they or did they not play a scenario so If I need to sit them down at a table I can alsways put them at a low level table.

For my experienced players, once in a while it pops up that I can't sit them down at our other lower level tables because they already played them *Though I will admit that is rare because I am that good of an organizer ;)* . So if you remove 7th level pregens you are actually removing that option for my experienced player who have a lot more interest in that Pregens survival and will not cause problems at the table. Even the worse Pregens if played well can add to the group.

*****

Dragnmoon wrote:

I can only base my Opinion on my Experience, and in my experience when Organizing, I only sit players down with a Pregen when absolutely necessary and their are no other options. By removing 7th level pregens that removes an option I have in my back pocket as an organizer, and I am never a fan of removing options for organizers.

With new players I have many more options then an experienced player, I never have to worry about did they or did they not play a scenario so If I need to sit them down at a table I can alsways put them at a low level table.

For my experienced players, once in a while it pops up that I can't sit them down at our other lower level tables because they already played them *Though I will admit that is rare because I am that good of an organizer ;)* . So if you remove 7th level pregens you are actually removing that option for my experienced player who have a lot more interest in that Pregens survival and will not cause problems at the table. Even the worse Pregens if played well can add to the group.

Your concern for your area is valid, and with removing the higher pregens there will be some complications in some areas... however, unless you can say that your area is the norm for the campaign world wide, we have to think of the overall and while there will be a few areas that have issues, overall it makes since for the campaign as a whole to remove the higher level pregens except when needed as a GM npc to make a higher level table go off.

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Kyle Baird wrote:

]How often do people pay for event tickets for a specific 7-11 scenario without having a level 7+ character (serious question)?

Half the 7-11 tables at Gen Con.

*****

Michael Brock wrote:
Kyle Baird wrote:

]How often do people pay for event tickets for a specific 7-11 scenario without having a level 7+ character (serious question)?

Half the 7-11 tables at Gen Con.

Would it work, from your perspective, to limit the 7-11 tables, list them as no pregens available and then open up more 1-7 tables?

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