Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

RPG Superstar 2015

What crafts, knowledges, and languages come up a lot in PFS?


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Silver Crusade ***

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm making a Lore Warden character with lots of skill ranks. He's going to be a knowledge nerd. Since craft is a class skill, and I have good int, I figured I'd toss a rank in there just for a day job. I also want to keep linguistics maxed out for lots of languages.

So as long as I'm training a craft skill, which ones come up a lot in PFS scenarios? I know I've seen craft (alchemy) before, but are there others that might be handy to know in scenarios?

Same with languages - which ones would be the most useful? And for that matter, most consistent with the personality of an Osirion tomb raider type of guy? Besides Osirioni, I'm thinking ancient, dead languages are appropriate here, but I also want them to be stuff that come up in PFS scenarios.

For knowledges, I know to stick mostly to the stuff used to id monsters, though history and dungeoneering fit the Osirion tomb raider personality, so I'm going with those before any others.

Liberty's Edge *

From what I've been able to tell - it really depends on the season you are playing in, as far as languages are concerned.

For Crafts? I couldn't tell you - but I know I've seen all sorts of different Knowledge skills come up. While I think they are pretty evenly spread out, the one that always sticks out for me is Knowledge: Engineering.

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

Personally, I find that Knowledge (Arcana) comes up a lot, but there's also usually somebody else at the table with it. Knowledge (Religion) is also good. In my opinion, though, you really shouldn't bother with an area of knowledge unless it's a class skill. With the craft skills, I think that you are going to find that they mostly come up during the day jobs, and that the amount of money coming from day jobs is rarely worth putting much effort there.

One exception, of course, is Craft(Alchemy) for Alchemists preparing extracts or mutagens.

Perception seems especially important for your character.

Lantern Lodge *** Star Voter 2013

I'll back Josh's post up in that I've seen Knowledge: Engineering come up more than I honestly thought it would.

Liberty's Edge *

Robert Beasley wrote:
I'll back Josh's post up in that I've seen Knowledge: Engineering come up more than I honestly thought it would.

Every session I've run or played in has had a Knowledge: Engineering check. Now that isn't too many so far - but I was a little shocked.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Kingsport , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka RainyDayNinja

I think the only Craft skills I've seen called out specifically in PFS scenarios are Craft (clothing) and Craft (trapmaking), and the latter I think has come up a couple of times. Mostly, it will just be a slightly better Day Job roll for INT-based characters.

Knowlege (local) is the most useful, followed perhaps by History and Arcana. I've rarely seen Engineering come up myself.

For languages, season 3 focuses on the region of Tian Xia, so Tian is useful. Likewise, season 4 is in Varisia, so Varisian and Ancient Thassilonion will be big. In general, Goblin and Draconic (for kobolds) are also useful when you run into them.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Knowlege (local) is the most useful, followed perhaps by History and Arcana.

This depends on whether you're looking at noncombat uses or monster identification. Local helps advance the plot, while history and arcana give you clues from time to time.

In combat, however, your big ones are religion and planes (for identifying undead and outsiders), followed by arcana (for golems and whatnot).

The Exchange ****

an Osirion tomb raider type of guy? how about Anchient Osirion - which I have been told is different from Osirion. This has popped up a couple times for me...
Judge: "anyone speak Anchient Osirion"
Me: "I've got Osirion!"
Judge: "Anchient Osirion?"
Me: "They're different?"
Judge: "Yeah, but knowing the modern one gives you a Linguistics rolls...".

It seems they use a different alphabit or something...

***** Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Boston aka Harley Quinn X

nosig wrote:

an Osirion tomb raider type of guy? how about Anchient Osirion - which I have been told is different from Osirion. This has popped up a couple times for me...

Judge: "anyone speak Anchient Osirion"
Me: "I've got Osirion!"
Judge: "Anchient Osirion?"
Me: "They're different?"
Judge: "Yeah, but knowing the modern one gives you a Linguistics rolls...".

It seems they use a different alphabit or something...

Knowing Ancient Osiriani helps you speak Osiriani, but not vice-versa. From the Inner Sea World Guide:

Inner Sea World Guide, page 251 wrote:

Ancient Osiriani: This precursor to modern Osiriani

shares many similarities and differs mainly in its
hieroglyphics and lexicon. Speakers of this tongue can
speak modern Osiriani, but with an archaic accent.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If I were to pick one Craft skill to put a rank in, it would be Alchemy. You might be able to talk the GM into letting you use it to identify a bunch of things - even if you are not an Alchemist and can't make things with it.

Liberty's Edge

Netopalis wrote:
...In my opinion, though, you really shouldn't bother with an area of knowledge unless it's a class skill...

That is the koolest part of Lore Warden. All of the intelligence skills are class skills.

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
Netopalis wrote:
...In my opinion, though, you really shouldn't bother with an area of knowledge unless it's a class skill...
That is the koolest part of Lore Warden. All of the intelligence skills are class skills.

Oh! My apologies, then.

**

Knowledge: Engineering seems to come up on fairly often on some of the faction missions.

All the Knowledge skills are important and you'll end up kicking yourself for the ones you don't have skill ranks in. :)

I still get a chuckle out of playing a session where my party couldn't make a Knowledge or a Sense Motive roll if our lives depended on it. Due to this, we completed the mission but let the main bad guys get away. :(

What was really funny about this, was that it was a party of mostly "Me, don't like you. Me, Smash!" and all the NPC were like "Oh, you big, strong fellows and chased away the bad guys. Sit, sit, have some tea."

****

My advice for a PFS Knowledge buff is to activate each knowledge with a single rank, then wait and see which ones you use to see which ones to bump up. That way you have at least a chance at each check, and you can tailor your abilities to the ones you use most often (i.e. the ones your faction requires most often).

From a roleplay standpoint this makes sense: You have a broadly educated type who isn't necessarily a specialist in any one area, but gets better at things he uses.

***

As far as languages go, it's certainly worth knowing Tian.

Shadow Lodge *** Dedicated Voter 2014

If you're a dwarf gnome or elf, breadth of experience gives you a nice +2 to all knowledge rolls, and lets you roll even while untrained.

Liberty's Edge ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

For anyone, Diletantte is a feat does a similar thing as breadth of knowledge, in a limited fashion.

For Lore Wardens, my preference is to sink a point into all the KNowledge skills, then concentrate on Arcana, Local, Dungeoneering, Religion, Planes and Nature, which are the 6 monster knowledge skills, and Local also helps on background information.

Lots of times, you'll get the same information from either Knowledge (Local) or Diplomacy (Gather Information) checks.

Languages:
Tien (Season 3)
Varisian & Thassilonian (Season 4)
Kelish (miscellaneous)
Jistka (On rare occasions)
Ancient Osiriani (roundabouts)
Draconian (kobolds, amongst others)
Celestial/Infernal/Abyssal/etc.

Craft:
Alchemy can be sort of useful, but really, whatever floats your boat.

*****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You should take Aquan. Then at least one other character out there could speak with my Oracle during combat. @#$^*%!

Shadow Lodge *** Dedicated Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kyle Baird wrote:
You should take Aquan. Then at least one other character out there could speak with my Oracle during combat. @#$^*%!

Wouldn't that just be perform: ventriloquism to talk while drinking water?

Shadow Lodge ***

Know Local is something I see offered a lot, but not many people have. Know Arcana is pretty much used a sa catch all,, and Know Religion is also pretty usefull, though most scenarios still push a lot of what should be under Religion to Arcana anyway.

Tian has become very common for my games recently, as have Skald and less so Varisian. I can't really think of any other language being known as very important, besides possibly some minor fluff. Although the Tian push is finally over, many GM's still run Season 3 a lot, so Tian is probably my first suggestion, and Varisian, Abyssal, and Infrnal being a distant second.

The Exchange ****

Kyle Baird wrote:
You should take Aquan. Then at least one other character out there could speak with my Oracle during combat. @#$^*%!

my summoner speaks aquan! I even used it to chat with folks in one of my scenarios, I presume it gave me a circumstance bonus.

***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My Lore Warden speaks Aquan (and quite a few more languages).

I've actually thought about building an Aasimar Lore Warden in the future with the Truespeaker alternative racial feature - so he'd have +2 on Linguistics and Sense Motive and get two languages per rank in Linguistics. Combined with taking a heritage that gave a +2 to INT and a likely high starting INT anyway he'd basically speak nearly every language after a few levels... (or be able to figure them out)

That said languages while really fun and flavorful are somewhat of a lower value option given the easy availability of Comprehend Languages and at higher levels Tongues. Both of which somewhat severely devalue the multilinguist character concepts. Though it is still good to speak a lot of languages for action economy situations (speaking to your summoned elementals or heck even the attacking elemental assuming it isn't commanded by some other force, speaking an unusual language your party shares but few foes would speak etc)

One thing I've noticed is that while a single rank into Knowledge skills at lower levels for the Lore Warden is quite nice and effective (1 rank for my 18INT lore warden = +8 for an INT skill) at higher tiers you often need more than a +8-10 to get meaningful information about monsters (or outside of combat to discover really useful information) so you will want to invest more points.

Or consider alternative options such as multiclassing as a Bard (if you CHA is high enough) or as an Alchemist (Mindchemist would give you double your INT on all Knowledge skills at level 2).

Certainly if you are a race that would qualify Breadth of Experience synergizes fantastically with the Lore Warden especially when you reach level 7 where making successful knowledge roles in combat have specific mechanical advantages for you in addition to learning about the monsters.

I play my Lore Warden as a fighter who is quite the academic - studying everything he can . He even acts in many parties as the party magic item identifier (Cloak the Hedge Wizard, Divination gives him at-will Detect Magic and many ranks in Spellcraft gives him a pretty good shot at identifying many things)

Silver Crusade ***

Thanks for all the suggestions.

For languages, Varisian and Ancient Thassolonian (sp?) fit well with his back story and personality. The character is Shoanti (I really wanted the human ethnic "Bred for War" trait for the CMB bonus, so then I built his back story around that), so he's from that part of the world. He just joined the Osirion faction because they go well with his stereotypical Lore Warden "thirst for knowledge" personality. But those languages might be useful in season 4 scenarios, which is the only season I haven't played at all yet.

I'll have to remember that Ancient Osirioni and modern Osirioni are different languages. I just double checked in the Guide to Organized Play, and I actually start with one more language than I originally thought - he gets Shoanti for free as his racial/ethnic language. So with 14 int and a rank in linguistics, that's 5 starting languages - probably Common, Shoanti, Osirioni, Varisian, and Ancient Thassolonian, with Ancient Osirioni to be added when I pick up another rank in linguistics at level 2. That's the only skill I'll definitely keep maxed out, just for the bonus langs.

I also picked up the Osirion Tomb Raider trait to get perception as a class skill, so I'll definitely be tossing some ranks in there.

I was already planning to put one rank in every knowledge skill just to activate the class bonuses, so I'll have +6 in all of them with one rank (+7 for dungeoneering, due to the Tomb Raider trait bonus). I might not be able to get them all by level 2, but definitely by level 3. Putting a rank each in things like climb and swim just to activate the class bonuses, and a rank in a craft for a day job, will slow down the early level knowledge training. Then it's a matter of which ones to work on the most after that, with the ones that identify monster strengths and weaknesses being the obvious top choices.

As for a craft skill, I was figuring a single skill rank gets me a +6 day job roll, so it's worth it just for that, given that I'll have 7 skill ranks per level. But if I can pick something that occasionally comes up in scenarios, that would be a plus. I didn't know trapmaking came up in scenarios. I really think alchemy is the only craft skill I remember seeing in past adventures, and I've played quite a few of them. So it's between those two. Maybe I'll toss a rank in both eventually.

Actually, now that I think about it more, I seem to recall craft (mapmaking) coming up for Osirion faction missions once or twice. Can anyone confirm that? Maybe I should go with that.

Grand Lodge **

Craft (Mummification). Profession (Mummyery)

**

Think you can use craft (mapmaking) or talk the DM into using Knowledge: Engineering.

Sovereign Court ***** Venture-Captain, West Virginia—Charleston , Marathon Voter 2014 aka Netopalis

Or knowledge (Geography)


Since all KS and language skills are your advanatage, that seems settled. As for a Craft, something to support that day job is good, however Profession seems better. My only use of a Craft/Profession to accomplish missions related Profession: Merchant (leather) and Profession: Entertainer (Acrobat). Each provided bonus circumstances in role-play. Don't discount the value of Day Jobs too much as they cover a costs of small expendables used in game.

As for Osirian tomb raiders: take clues from what you will actually study: monuments, artifacts. Ancient jewelry, numismatics, pottery, etc. all relate as much as gargantuan stone edifices. Styles of art and sculpture. Anything can provide an RPG moment that gains you a circumstance bonus in achieving a mission success.

Oh, and mummery, as that is very useful in the scenario with parades in Philadelphia on New Year's.

***

Mostly what they said, but to emphasize...

Knowledge (local) should be maxed, especially with your concept (Indy always knew somebody who knew somebody...)

Knowledge (engineering) also fits your concept I'd say, and it's another knowledge that few classes can get.

Beyond that you'll probably start to run out of skill points, if you want to be able to Climb, Swim, Perceive, or anything else very well, so feel free to drop a point in most if not all knowledge skills (though I've only seen know(geography) come up once, as part of a faction mission), though you'll probably only be able to focus on 3 or 4 total, and by concept it sounds like your priorities in order should be Arcana, Religion, History (though that's another I never see come up in play), Planes, Dungeoneering, and Nature last (though still a very useful skill, but you're spending most of your time in tombs, aren't you?)

I'd pass on putting even a single point into craft. What's the skill point worth to you? Even as a class skill and +3 from INT, your average net will be about 16gp per scenario for 1 skill point invested. Which is about a 3% boost in tier 1-2, less than 1% in 4-5 and above. To hit level 12, you'd play 33 scenarios. Getting 16gp each nets you a total of 528gp. Average wealth at that level is over 100,000gp. So your day job would in total get you about 1/2% boost in wealth.

Now, if you're going to put ranks in Survival, spend 2pp and get the Hunting Lodge vanity to use survival for your day job roll. Heal and Slight of Hand can become day jobs for 4pp (along with some other benfits). Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate for 5pp with the Caravan vanity. If you're thinking about maxing any of these skills already, then spending the pp can translate into well over 1000gp extra in your pocket, without costing you a wasted skill point.

Liberty's Edge *****

My (now) level 12 barbarian got to use his Craft: Weapons a total of 1 time as a skill check that wasnt a knowledge roll, and I believe it was for a faction mission that wasn't my own. :P

Silver Crusade ***

Seth Gipson wrote:
My (now) level 12 barbarian got to use his Craft: Weapons a total of 1 time as a skill check that wasnt a knowledge roll, and I believe it was for a faction mission that wasn't my own. :P

That's right up there with my level 13 barbarian who has a rank in Profession (Tax Collector), except that I've never used it for anything more than a day job. And not even a good day job, since it's a non-class skill based on a stat that I dumped.

I figure with 7 skill ranks per level (8 with favored class), my Lore Warden can afford to throw one rank into a +6 day job roll. I wasn't planning to train any other skills with this character that can be used for day jobs. Most of his ranks are going into knowledges, linguistics, and perception, with probably one rank each in swim and climb just to unlock the class bonus. Charisma is my one dump stat, so none of those skills will get trained.

With as many ranks as I'll have, that means I can easily keep linguistics maxed, along with having 5 or 6 other skills close to max, which will be perception and whichever knowledges I end up deciding to specialize in. It'll just be the first two levels or so of putting one rank into everything that will slow me down getting started, but after level 3 or 4, I should have plenty of ranks to go around.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Kingsport , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka RainyDayNinja

My level 7 monk has also only used his Profession (Gardener) once, to help bring in the harvest in "Defenders of Nesting Swallow." Although he totally got cheated out of a chance in "The Midnight Mauler," when I had to get past a rose hedge, and the GM wouldn't let him pull out his masterwork gardening shears.

I think my next character is going to have a rank in Craft (Fiction), and constantly be giving copies of his novel manuscript to NPCs, for them to critique or endorse. I wonder if I can get GMs to actually put back-cover blurbs on my chronicles...

Liberty's Edge *****

Fromper wrote:
Seth Gipson wrote:
My (now) level 12 barbarian got to use his Craft: Weapons a total of 1 time as a skill check that wasnt a knowledge roll, and I believe it was for a faction mission that wasn't my own. :P

That's right up there with my level 13 barbarian who has a rank in Profession (Tax Collector), except that I've never used it for anything more than a day job. And not even a good day job, since it's a non-class skill based on a stat that I dumped.

I figure with 7 skill ranks per level (8 with favored class), my Lore Warden can afford to throw one rank into a +6 day job roll. I wasn't planning to train any other skills with this character that can be used for day jobs. Most of his ranks are going into knowledges, linguistics, and perception, with probably one rank each in swim and climb just to unlock the class bonus. Charisma is my one dump stat, so none of those skills will get trained.

With as many ranks as I'll have, that means I can easily keep linguistics maxed, along with having 5 or 6 other skills close to max, which will be perception and whichever knowledges I end up deciding to specialize in. It'll just be the first two levels or so of putting one rank into everything that will slow me down getting started, but after level 3 or 4, I should have plenty of ranks to go around.

Lol!

With mine, I wasnt even using Craft Weapons as my day job anymore by the time the check came up. I had since switched to Perform: Oratory...yes...with my barbarian. He's a Knight Captain of the Eagle Knights, so it counted as a class skill. That plus my level 12 stat point into Cha (giving me an 8, lol), a Circlet of Persuasion, and a Headband with a +2 Cha on it gave me a decent score. I guess I could buy a masterwork item to give me another +2 on it. Hmmm...megaphone?

Silver Crusade ***

Oooh... masterwork item! I hadn't even thought about that. I could probably by masterwork tools for my crafting to make it +8 for the investment of one skill rank and 55 gp. That'll only take a 4 or 5 day job rolls to get back. LOL

***

Fromper wrote:

Oooh... masterwork item! I hadn't even thought about that. I could probably by masterwork tools for my crafting to make it +8 for the investment of one skill rank and 55 gp. That'll only take a 4 or 5 day job rolls to get back. LOL

Just don't, seriously. You'll be investing in at least one of the skills I mentioned above, right? Just spend some pp and get a better long term payoff. Especially if you're Osiran, you only need to bank 8pp for your first raise dead once you hit 20 fame (much better than 16pp for raise dead), so you'll have pp to spare compared with the rest of us.

Silver Crusade *

I've used Profession: Scribe quite a lot. Maybe it's just me, but seems like a lot of faction missions (especially older ones) have you copying inscriptions or making sketches or what not.

***

I've seen professions a bit, too, mainly sailor. But I think he's looking at crafts to go with the lorewarden bonus. And only one scenario comes to mind where crafts could be used (7 samurai, anybody?) and even there they weren't necessary, just sort of helpful. Granted, I've only played like 20 scenarios so far, so maybe I just haven't played all the ones where crafts can be used.

***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Generally speaking pick the day job skill where you will have the highest bonus (i.e. Perform if CHA, Profession if WIS, Craft if INT). Perform occasionally comes up (and is quite useful for Bards - who might actually need multiple types of Perform skills). Profession (Sailor) is probably the most useful (used to drive boats with some frequency) and Craft is rarely useful for anyone other than Alchemists in PFS play.

Putting one point into a day job skill as well as 50ish GP for masterwork tools is a reasonable investment (especially now that you can "take 10" on day job rolls).

That said you should also look at how you can spend PP to allow another skill to be used for Day Jobs - for many characters this is a great use of PP - and lets you leverage scarse skill points more effectively (i.e. there is an option for healers to use the Heal skill for day job checks - making a somewhat useful skill a bit more useful), rogues can use PP to be able to use slight of hand etc.

Silver Crusade

My inquisitor's intimidate is going through the roof, so I will be getting the guarded caravan vanity to make use of that.

***

Rycaut wrote:


Putting one point into a day job skill as well as 50ish GP for masterwork tools is a reasonable investment (especially now that you can "take 10" on day job rolls).

No it isn't.

Taking 10 on day job rolls is only mathematically advantageous for very few +x to your day job roll situations, specifically: +15, +16, +20, +21, +25, and +30 to +38. And at +39 and up, both yield the max of 150gp.

At +8 vs +6, it will take you 12 day job rolls to make up the 55gp you spend on the tool, on average, if you're rolling. If you take 10, you'll never get your money back.

And a quick table of lifetime expected earnings from day job rolls, if you roll 33 times (from level 1 through 11, retire at 12):

+4 297gp
+7 540gp
+12 1048gp
+15 1650gp
+20 2475gp
+25 3300gp
+29 3919gp
+30 4950gp max

so, from +15 it starts to look good, and hitting +30 is really the goal

And let me put it another way. If you could spend 620gp to get a bonus skill point, would you? (your lifetime expected earnings from +8 to the roll.) Not even at lvl 10 when your wealth is like 40,000gp?

yeah, I'm lucky, I'm a ranger, I max survival as a class skill. For 2pp, spent after the 3rd adventure (had other things to get, like bow and wand with first 4 pp), I'll get 30 day job payments before level 12, and can expect that to earn me 1100gp.

a class/build with ridiculous intimidate can easily net over 2500gp for 5pp

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Society® / General Discussion / What crafts, knowledges, and languages come up a lot in PFS? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.