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Is this still TWF?


Rules Questions


Assume one character has full BAB, so four attacks in a full-attack action. While he is holding a weapon in each hand, the first two attacks are made with the weapon in his main hand and the second two attacks are made with the weapon in his off-hand.

Is this still considered TWF, and thus would take the penalties of dual-wielding, even though he's not actually making multiple attacks per iterative attack in a full-attack action?

To go a bit into specifics, I'm looking at a Gunslinger build where, during a full attack action, he makes the +20 and +15 attacks with a one-handed weapon and the +10 and +5 attacks with a ranged weapon, rather than the +16/+16/+11/+11/etc/etc that you normally have when two-weapon fighting.

The idea for this build isn't to try and hit as many times as possible through traditional TWF (which is also very difficult due to needing to reload and such), but as reliably as possible, using a melee weapon at the two higher BAB (as they have to hit the enemy's full AC) and a firearm at the two lower BAB (as they have to hit only the enemy's touch AC), while also going through ammunition slower and needing to reload less often.


No. This isn't TWF. You do not incur TWF penalties when you are only using your normal iterative attacks (even if they are with different weapons).


The weapon is still in your off hand though, so it's a fuzzy call, since the CRB specifies penalties for using your off hand. Consult your DM, before presuming anything. Taking the Quick Draw feat makes it totally legit though.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Dawsjax wrote:
The weapon is still in your off hand though, so it's a fuzzy call, since the CRB specifies penalties for using your off hand. Consult your DM, before presuming anything. Taking the Quick Draw feat makes it totally legit though.

I think SKR made this one a FAQ answer about 6 months ago, so there shouldn't be any arguement anymore


Not TWF, unless you try to get more than your normal iterative attacks. No penalty on any of the 4 attacks.

It's been talked about a lot on the boards, mostly by people looking to try and buff themselves or nerf ppl who out DPR them, but the book has it clearly spelled out that TWF penalties are for "extra" attacks beyond your normal from BAB.

PF even got rid of the "off hand" penalty from 3.5 that used to apply even if you only used 1 hand the whole round if it was your off hand.

My major question is how you are getting 2 shots with a gun and not having a hand free. You specify the first 2 attacks with a weapon, do you drop it to have a hand free to reload between the shots? If so, you will have to pick it up (move action) or draw another melee weapon (move action, or free with quickdraw), before you can take another full attack in the same style.


Main-hand and Off-hand are kind of archaic terms now since it doesn't matter which weapon you designate as the Main and Off weapons. What matters is that the Main-hand attack is whichever one you give full Str bonus to and the off-hand is whichever one you give reduced Str bonus to.

So if you're attacking at +20/+15/+10/+5 as your Bab allows, they're all main-hand attacks by default, whichever weapon you use (weapon in one hand, the other hand, or an Unarmed Strike). It's only when you take attacks in addition to the main-hand (full str) attack that off-hand attacks and TWF come into play.


found it

Sorry to mislead, hope this helps.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No extra attack, then no penalties.

It's just that simple.


Dawsjax wrote:
The weapon is still in your off hand though, so it's a fuzzy call, since the CRB specifies penalties for using your off hand. Consult your DM, before presuming anything. Taking the Quick Draw feat makes it totally legit though.

Then shields would suck, as those are weapons.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

This has been answered here.

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