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Cooperative Crafting


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

Cooperative Crafting Feat wrote:
Benefit: You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.

Source

This isn't a Teamwork feat, so can I assume that it's useful even if only one crafter has the feat? So if you have one crafter with Craft Wondrous Item and Craft(Jewelry) and one with Craft Wondrous Item, Craft (Jewelry), and Cooperative Crafting, they can make a magic Amulet together at twice the speed?

If yes, does this require that the crafter without Cooperative Crafting make the final craft check with the +2 bonus for assistance, or could either crafter do so?

Crafting Magic Items wrote:
This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

Can you accelerate cooperative crafting by increasing the DC in order to make 4,000 gold worth of progress in a day (2,000 every 4 hours)?

Amazing Tools of Manufacture wrote:
However, in the hands of a craftsman with 6 or more ranks in the selected Craft skill, the greater power of the amazing tools of manufacture becomes apparent.... For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day.

Is it possible for a pair of cooperative crafters to make use of Amazing Tools of Manufacture? If so, at what rate do they craft? Do they both need 6+ ranks in the relevant craft skill to activate the tools, or just one of them? Can they also accelerate this crafting rate by increasing the DC?

My party has a plot deadline, a ton of gold, and a level-up feat, and I'm trying to figure out how quickly we can convert that gold to items.

Silver Crusade

I havnt really created a chracter that can yet make magical items, but i played an artifacer in eberron 3.5 for years so i did spend some time getting aquanted with the crafting rules here.

This isn't a Teamwork feat, so can I assume that it's useful even if only one crafter has the feat?

Thats correct it just says need the same Craft or Item creation skills.

So if you have one crafter with Craft Wondrous Item and Craft(Jewelry) and one with Craft Wondrous Item, Craft (Jewelry), and Cooperative Crafting, they can make a magic Amulet together at twice the speed?

Crafter A would have to make the Amulet or Wonderous Item. Crafter B can assist crafter A, but crafter A can not assist crafter B.

Can you accelerate cooperative crafting by increasing the DC in order to make 4,000 gold worth of progress in a day (2,000 every 4 hours)?

No but your really close though.. What this is ment is to shorten the time in making things from the standard 1000 GP per 8 hours per caster and cut that time into half. So those two crafters could indeed make 2k in 4 hours. But thats all they could make that Day on the amulet.

In creating items you are allowed to make the following per day. 1 scroll, 1 potion, 1 other. If someone else helps to make an item, it still counts as the helpers 1 of X item per day.

Is it possible for a pair of cooperative crafters to make use of Amazing Tools of Manufacture? If so, at what rate do they craft? Do they both need 6+ ranks in the relevant craft skill to activate the tools, or just one of them? Can they also accelerate this crafting rate by increasing the DC?

Yes. Rate at end. Yes they both need skills to activate the tools. No, it clearly states it can only be used 1 hour per day per person.

2 Crafters working on an amulet would work like this.
C1 = Main Crafter | C2 = Crafter assisting
Hour 1 c1 +2500 c2 +500
Hour 2 c1 +500 c2 +2500
Hour 3 c1 +500 c2 +500
Hour 4 c1 +500 c2 +500
Done on amulet for the day. +5 DC to create Amulet, +8000 Gold to the item.

My party has a plot deadline, a ton of gold, and a level-up feat, and I'm trying to figure out how quickly we can convert that gold to items.

There are a couple options. They could hire 2 more jewlers with craft wonderous items. If in a large enough city that should be easy enough to find. That would allow them to make an additional +8000 Gold per day assuming both of the crafters they have the co-op crafting feat.

One of their Gods, or perhaps someone that dirrectly opposes the actions of the BBG could take an active interest in the party and transports them to an alternatite demi-plane where time flows much quick. So they spend X ammount of time on Demi-plane to create all the items they need. They finish the crafting. That God that took them to the demi-plane shows up and gives a random item they made a specially buff that you think will help the party but not be too powerfull, even something like a bless for a day or two or that diety could TP them to where they need to be so they can Just bairly make the deadline.

Shadow Lodge

I should clarify: I'm a player in this one. My crafting skills can't handle the gold rush so I'm considering finding an assistant (or someone to assist).

I didn't consider continuing work with the Amazing Tools after the first hour... that example was helpful. But I don't think C1 should be able to make 2.5K worth of progress in hour 1. The item clearly says if you work for 1 hour you get 2K progress.

Quote:
No but your really close though.. What this is ment is to shorten the time in making things from the standard 1000 GP per 8 hours per caster and cut that time into half. So those two crafters could indeed make 2k in 4 hours. But thats all they could make that Day on the amulet.

You sure about that? I can see not stacking the speed-increasing options, but I thought the whole point of standard accelerated crafting was to cut down the number of days spent finishing an item. You finish 1K worth of crafting(normally 8 hours of work) in 4 hours, but I don't see anything saying that you can't go and craft for another 4 hours and another 1K progress - nothing that adjusts the normal "up to 8 hours of crafting in a non-adventuring day" rule.


Weirdo wrote:

I should clarify: I'm a player in this one. My crafting skills can't handle the gold rush so I'm considering finding an assistant (or someone to assist).

I didn't consider continuing work with the Amazing Tools after the first hour... that example was helpful. But I don't think C1 should be able to make 2.5K worth of progress in hour 1. The item clearly says if you work for 1 hour you get 2K progress.

Quote:
No but your really close though.. What this is ment is to shorten the time in making things from the standard 1000 GP per 8 hours per caster and cut that time into half. So those two crafters could indeed make 2k in 4 hours. But thats all they could make that Day on the amulet.
You sure about that? I can see not stacking the speed-increasing options, but I thought the whole point of standard accelerated crafting was to cut down the number of days spent finishing an item. You finish 1K worth of crafting(normally 8 hours of work) in 4 hours, but I don't see anything saying that you can't go and craft for another 4 hours and another 1K progress - nothing that adjusts the normal "up to 8 hours of crafting in a non-adventuring day" rule.

I'm fairly certain you can craft 2000 gp per day (4000 with the assistant) by adding 5 to the DC, especially given the order it states these things:

SRD wrote:

This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day.

Also, the reason it mentions that it is accelerated to 4 hours per 1000 is probably because:

SRD wrote:
If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks.

So by RAW I don't see anything stopping you from crafting at double speed for the full 8 hours.

Silver Crusade

I just sorta assumed that you the double time work for the first 4 hours, counted as all 8, but gave you more time to do Other stuff. If by RAW there is no restriction to working two double shifts then as Tar-Tar said you should be able to work the full 8 hours and it would work out like this.

Hour 1 c1 +2000 c2 +500
Hour 2 c1 +500 c2 +2000
Hour 3 c1 +500 c2 +500
Hour 4 c1 +500 c2 +500
Done on amulet for shift 1. +5 DC to create Amulet, +7000 Gold to the item.
Hour 5 C1 +500 C2 +500
Hour 6 C1 +500 C2 +500
Hour 7 C1 +500 C2 +500
Hour 8 C1 +500 C2 +500
Done on amulet for shift 2. +5 DC to create amulet, +4000 Gold to the item.

Each day your two workers would make 11000 Gold onto the amulet.
Each assistant you hire, up to 6 more, would each add 5500 Gold over the course of the day (if you allow them to use your tools also)

You would of course have to pay the NPC Spellcasters you hire, and if they dont have access to the spells your enchanting into the amulet you would have to make scrolls for them to use. Cost for additional helpers would be [Caster level × spell level × 10 gp3]

I think that should be enough to get you rolling. it is really too bad that Paizo did not enclude the Eberron item creation feats like Legendary, Exceptional, and Extraordinary Artisan feats which reduced XP, GOlD, Time costs on items by 25% each.

My artifacer loved them, specially before the Erratta changed it so you could only take the feats once. Used to be Free to make stuff cuz you take them 4x each, but after the time I created a Warforged Factory complete with the proper schema, it got nurffed via a houserule, then the RAW changed and could only take each once..

Grand Lodge

Question, where are the Amazing Tools of Manufacture found? (In which book?)

EDIT: Found it, it appears that it is a magic item that is intended for Master Craftsmen. In your original example, I could see it working, as it seems that your character is, in fact a Master Craftsman, using Craft (jewelry) for his item creation skill check.

As written, I think it would work, though as a GM, I would probably require both crafters to have their own set of tools, as cooperative crafting implies that you are working simultaneously. (Though there is no real reason you couldn't trade tools after the first hour, other than not wanting to give up your exquisite tools to a lesser craftsman to use... :p)

Shadow Lodge

Not a Master Craftsman, just using the Craft skill instead of Spellcraft to make items (so as to use the Amazing Tools). Requiring two sets of tools seems fair.

Grand Lodge

Huh, it was my understanding that the only way you were able to create a magic item without using the Spellcraft skill was if you had Master Craftsman. Though, having just read the wording, it seems to indicate that there is no requirement to use Spellcraft to enchant the item. Good on you!


While the completion check for magic item creation is usually a spellcraft check, it can also be any check allowed by specific item or item type, such as craft(armor) for armor and craft(clocks) for a clockwork golem. A selection of different craft checks may even be given. The obvious advantage of spellcraft is that you can rely on a single skill most casters would generally have significant ranks.

Master craftsman mainly gives those without a caster level a route to gain the craft wonderous and craft arms & armor feats. However, it requires all the completion checks be based on the one prerequisite craft skill.

The third party Pathfinder Artificer class combines these, with the usual selection of completion check options, but with craft checks to emulate each spell required to create the item.

Cooperative Crafting's +2 circumstance bonus is rarely useful since you probably have an applicable masterwork tool, but anything that decreases creation time by 50% or more is a win. I wasn't aware of the Amazing Tool of Manufacture, but for those with more money than time (like my Artificer) it sounds great.

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