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Do they know when I cast at them?


Advice


The witch has some amazing looking spells. Some really mean and nasty ones at that. I can see how they could be a ton of fun... if the target doesn't know that they have been bespelled. I've tried googling for it but my google-fu is terrible.

Unadulterated Loathing

spell:
School enchantment (compulsion) [emotion, mind-affecting]; Level antipaladin 2, bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)

Target one creature

Duration 1 day/level

Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

You fill the target with a terrible loathing aimed at a specific creature. At the time of the casting, you designate a single creature as the object of the target's revulsion. Thereafter, the target does all it can to remain at least 60 feet away from the object of its loathing. As soon as the target moves within this range, it becomes nauseated until it can again get away from the object of its revulsion. If traveling beyond 60 feet of the object of its loathing would place the target in obvious physical danger, the target can attempt a second save to break the spell's effect.

Unadulterated loathing counters reckless infatuation.

Can I cast that on someone without them knowing? Or will they know that it was cast on them, thus negating all comedy aspect of it?

Star Voter 2014

Creatures may know something is effecting them, but may not undertsand what it is. They may understand they were compelled unnaturally. I honestly can not find any rules on it.

I would give maybe a spell craft if they have it to try to determine what is ahppeneing.


Quote:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

The above is from the SRD in the section about Magic>Saving Throws>Succeeding on a Saving Throw. I'd say at minimum this implies they are not aware of the what's up while the duration is in effect and likely don't think about it much afterwards unless some ongoing consequence starts to make them question their own behavior (other folks, npcs or party members) start asking them about their odd behavior etc.) when they fail the save. If they save the above quote applies and their perception and the circumstances may zero them in on who or what exactly had a part in the attack. Without Spellcraft and or Knowledge of the appropriate type (or perhaps talking with folks with those skills) they still aren't going to know exactly what happened. But most of the consequences are going to depend on how the GM decides it all works in his campaign (outside the quote at the top).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Verbal wrote:
(V): A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
Perception wrote:
Hear the details of a conversation = DC 0

They will know you spoke, and then they were overcome with revulsion. Depending on their Spellcraft check, they may or may not know what you did, but they should know that you did something.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Verbal wrote:
(V): A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
Perception wrote:
Hear the details of a conversation = DC 0
They will know you spoke, and then they were overcome with revulsion. Depending on their Spellcraft check, they may or may not know what you did, but they should know that you did something.

Would they know if the person who it involved was nowhere around when cast? Say you cast it on them in the guise of casting something else, the target of the revulsion doesn't show up till later...

Star Voter 2014

You can disguise or hide the verbal and somanic parts. In a crowded loud place like a market or bar and you would never hear the casting. Plus if you are 50 feet away you would nto hear it either.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

There are no rules for hidden or bluffed casting, to my knowledge. If the target can perceive you, he can roll a Spellcraft check to identify the spell you are casting.

Star Voter 2014

ofcourse, but could he hear you if 50 other people are talking loudly and are closer?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

If he beats the Perception DC, yes.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Verbal wrote:
(V): A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
Perception wrote:
Hear the details of a conversation = DC 0
They will know you spoke, and then they were overcome with revulsion. Depending on their Spellcraft check, they may or may not know what you did, but they should know that you did something.

To add to this train of thought. Keep in mind a few things. How long ago was the spell cast. Is the spells duration rounds or days? Accurately recalling something that happened moments ago is a bit different than something happening days (weeks, months) ago. And how out of place was the effect. A Charm Person is, or can be, relatively subtle the above spell is not. How will you explain what you were doing when or if asked (Bluff?). Keep in mind with the "Hear details of a conversation" the range (-10 ft per and all that) at which the spell was cast and the circumstance when you cast the spell. Was it in the quiet countryside with only party members around or in a crowded market place or bar with many many other folks around and lots of background noise. Hence why I said how your own GM handles it is going to play a big part.


Silent Spell. :)


Another question along the same lines... SU (Supernatural Abilities)- Can these be stilled or silenced? Can they be detected at all? I'm thinking along the lines of the Witch Hex.


Silent Spell+ Still Spell +Fireball = DO NOT think about fireballs.


Widjit wrote:
Another question along the same lines... SU (Supernatural Abilities)- Can these be stilled or silenced? Can they be detected at all? I'm thinking along the lines of the Witch Hex.

Still looking for it within PF rules but in 3.5 the answer is no and thinking there is no reason PF would be different. Spell-like and Supernatural abilities have no verbal, somatic, material, focus or xp components, so there's nothing to still, silent, eschew etc..

EDIT: They did/do have Quickened versions of some Spell-like Abilities and other feats which could be applied.
EDIT2: And of course as has often been stated a Spell-like Ability is not a Spell (hence spell-like). Ditto for Supernatural Ability even more so, just think about a Vampire's Domination (Su), for example.

Dark Archive

I've always ruled that if a save is failed, the target is only aware of the obvious effects of the spell. If you fail your save vs burning hands you know you were damaged by fire. If you fail your save vs charm person you aren't even aware you were the target of a spell (and if you somehow deduced you were the target, you assume it missed or you were otherwise unaffected by it). Once the effects wear off, the target may or may not realize he was under the effects of a spell, depending on the nature of the spell and its effects.


I always liked 'fairplay' rules in our games. If you wanted to simulate 'there's no way they could know!' stuff, consider that the rules should apply to PCs too. While a player might know, cause the Gm just said "Make a Fortitude Saving throw" or something, if this is a world where you want to exploit the idea that the characters and NPCs themselves don't know, then the PC shouldn't get to operate on Player information that a saving throw was just required.

Any player told to roll a saving throw immediately goes to RED ALERT and starts doing things like "My character looks around to see what just happened/etc" even if their character would have no way to tell someone just cast a spell on them.

Consequently, through metagaming, we just generally go with 'you know SOMETHING happened that should put you to red, if not yellow alert'. I suppose one could argue that non-classed npc types would be less familiar with the triggers or 'vibes' one gets when targeted by a spell, but ultimately it comes down to how much work you and the GM want in your games.

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