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Precision and flurry of blows / TWF


Player Feedback


From the PDF

Quote:

Precision (Ex): Whenever you make a full attack, the

penalty on additional attack rolls is reduced by 5. This
ability can’t reduce the penalty on additional attacks to less
than 0. For example, a 12th-level fighter, whose total attack
bonus was +16/+11/+6 when making a full attack would use
+16/+16/+11 with this ability. You must be at least 3rd tier
before selecting this ability. This ability can be selected
more than once. Each time it is selected, the penalty on
additional attacks is reduced by an additional –5.

Does this apply to other forms of 'full attack' actions the character can take advantage of, like flurry of blows, or two weapon fighting?

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

Yes. I will endeavor to clean up the usage language on this one a bit.

I am moving this to the Player Feedback Forum.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Jason Bulmahn wrote:

Yes. I will endeavor to clean up the usage language on this one a bit.

I am moving this to the Player Feedback Forum.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Excellent to hear, my party really isn't going to like my Drunken Master at all any more. Thanks for the clarification.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Does this also decrease the non-proficiency penalty, so if a character had greater two weapon fighting, used a non-light weapon they weren't proficient with, and made three attacks with each hand, for a normal bonus of say +7/+7/+2/+2/-3/-3 and had this ability 4 times they could get rid of a -20 penalty (say the example has 18 strength and +11 BAB, for a total attack of +15 without any penalties) they would have +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15?

Does it also offset the penalty from power attack?
Combat Expertise?
Defensive Fighting?


Dylos wrote:

Does this also decrease the non-proficiency penalty, so if a character had greater two weapon fighting, used a non-light weapon they weren't proficient with, and made three attacks with each hand, for a normal bonus of say +7/+7/+2/+2/-3/-3 and had this ability 4 times they could get rid of a -20 penalty (say the example has 18 strength and +11 BAB, for a total attack of +15 without any penalties) they would have +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15?

Does it also offset the penalty from power attack?
Combat Expertise?
Defensive Fighting?

D'oh, I didn't think big enough. Yeah, further clarification would be nice, but I would assume based on the earlier post that the bonuses would apply against the penalties, as long as it's a full attack.


Dylos wrote:

Does this also decrease the non-proficiency penalty, so if a character had greater two weapon fighting, used a non-light weapon they weren't proficient with, and made three attacks with each hand, for a normal bonus of say +7/+7/+2/+2/-3/-3 and had this ability 4 times they could get rid of a -20 penalty (say the example has 18 strength and +11 BAB, for a total attack of +15 without any penalties) they would have +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15?

Does it also offset the penalty from power attack?
Combat Expertise?
Defensive Fighting?

It doesn't look like it negates any other penalties, just the 0/-5/-10/-15 from iteratives.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Bearded Ben wrote:
Dylos wrote:

Does this also decrease the non-proficiency penalty, so if a character had greater two weapon fighting, used a non-light weapon they weren't proficient with, and made three attacks with each hand, for a normal bonus of say +7/+7/+2/+2/-3/-3 and had this ability 4 times they could get rid of a -20 penalty (say the example has 18 strength and +11 BAB, for a total attack of +15 without any penalties) they would have +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+15?

Does it also offset the penalty from power attack?
Combat Expertise?
Defensive Fighting?

It doesn't look like it negates any other penalties, just the 0/-5/-10/-15 from iteratives.

If this is the case, the text needs to use the word iterative or say "This only negates the penalty from multiple attacks, any other penalties still apply."

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This ability only applies to the penalty incurred to the additional attacks due to having more than one attack.

Sorry, I misread a bit there. It does not apply to any other penalties, such as the penalty from using Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise, or Flurry of Blows.

It ONLY applies to the 0/-5/-10/-15 gained by having a high BAB and gaining additional attacks.

Yeah.. I gotta clean up that wording a bit.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


Would it apply to the extra attacks gained from having natural weapons? (Say a half orc with the toothy trait wielding a greatsword, his natural attacks are at -5, would this make the penalty go away?)

prototype00

Star Voter 2013

Glad you're gonna clean up the wording a bit Jason, they way it's currently worded, would make iterative attacks better than the primary attack because the primary would still suffer penalties from things like Power Attack and TWF, while the iterative attacks could be made without those penalties.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm confused. For a 20 BAB fighter or 20 level monk, is it:

18/18/18/18 with main hand and 18/13/8 with offhand

or

18/18/18/18/18/18/18

(Before stat and feat adjustments of course)


The second, I believe.

Star Voter 2013

A 20 full BAB class has an attack routine of 20/15/10/5 or penalties of -0/-5/-10/-15.

If you only took Precision once, your attack routine would be 20/20/15/10 (-0/-0/-5/-10)

If you took it twice, it would be 20/20/20/15 (-0/-0/-0/-5

Three times nets you 20/20/20/20 (-0/-0/-0/-0)

For full TWF (or psuedo-TWF) it's basically the same. A 20 Monk has a Flurry of 18/18/13/13/8/8/3. Since the intention is to only remove the penalties for being iterative attacks, and not any penalty period, then the attack routine would look like:

Precision x1 - 18/18/18/18/13/13/8
Precision x2 - 18/18/18/18/18/18/13
Precision x3 - 18/18/18/18/18/18/18

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