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What adds to alchemists bomb damage?


Rules Questions


Obviously int and favored class bonuses, but does anything else add to it?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Weapon Specialization.


Isn't there another feat that adds damage to them?


half orc favored class bonus


Doesn't pretty much anything that's not melee/weapon-specific add to bomb damage [vs. the primary target]?

ex. Inspire Courage Bardic Performance, point-blank shot, weapon specialization, +x enchanted flask thrower*, Greater Magic Weapon (both kinda vague, and also kind-of a waste unless you could house-rule splitting it across 10 bombs and 40 arrows)

Something like deadly aim wouldn't work since it's a ranged touch attack.

You'd want to establish/clarify as a "house rule" whether or not such bonuses would affect the splash damage though. It's probably best to rule that nothing affects the splash aside from int (and I guess favored class too; Anything else?), but there's arguments that go both ways.

* (flask thrower info):

Before you jump to using this, realize that it would require a feat to be proficient, and that since loading it would probably require a move action, you'd be spending a full-round action to shoot only once (although someone could maybe house-rule [rapid reload]/[juggle load + ammo drop] to allow more shots per round if you also had fast bombs).


Every time I think of the Flask Thrower I can't help but think of a Medieval Grenade Launcher...


Joesi wrote:

Something like deadly aim wouldn't work since it's a ranged touch attack.

Deadly Aim:
Deadly Aim (Combat)

You can make exceptionally deadly ranged attacks by pinpointing a foe's weak spot, at the expense of making the attack less likely to succeed.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.

You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls.

As far as i know, a Ranged touch attack still a uses a Ranged attack roll.
Had Deadly Aim said, Ranged weapon, then it would still work, as a bomb counts as a thrown splash weapon. "A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact"


Mucronis wrote:
Benefit: You can choose to take a –1 penalty on all ranged attack rolls to gain a +2 bonus on all ranged damage rolls. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and every +4 thereafter, the penalty increases by –1 and the bonus to damage increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before making an attack roll and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.


Doh, that's what I get for copy pasting while close to dead on my feet.

I do apologize to Joesi for that comment.


Joesi wrote:

You'd want to establish/clarify as a "house rule" whether or not such bonuses would affect the splash damage though. It's probably best to rule that nothing affects the splash aside from int (and I guess favored class too; Anything else?), but there's arguments that go both ways.

** spoiler omitted **

Bombs:
Bomb (Su)

In addition to magical extracts, alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies. An alchemist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster’s component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, an alchemist’s bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of an alchemist’s bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb’s minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the alchemist’s level + the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier.

Alchemists can learn new types of bombs as discoveries (see the Discovery ability) as they level up. An alchemist’s bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.

There should be no arguments about what applies to a bombs splash damage as it's stated very clearly in the rules. Anything that adds to a bombs damage adds to it's splash damage as well.


SRD is correct about that.

And Hey his initials are SRD! (I really need sleep)


I've seen that argument before (there's a pretty big discussion in some other thread to which I think you were a part of), and I was going to include it, but decided against it.

I guess theoretically it is RAW to include all damage bonuses to the splash, although it might not be RAI/logical? due to the few sources, it's probably not a big deal at high level, but at low level +2–3 damage to splash is pretty big especially when you're splashing 3+ targets.

I'd be nice to have clarification, but I don't think anyone would clarify something like this since it's pretty straightforward under RAW? I was peer-pressured by the aforementioned thread (and DM) to believe/rule that splash shouldn't be affected (since that's what the majority in the thread and my DM thought), but I guess I'm kinda back on the fence leaning to the RAW (for selfish character-buffing reasons).


The thing is getting the +2 at early levels.

Personally I say it adds to the base damage and therefore increases the Minimum damage possible.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
The thing is getting the +2 at early levels

It's not too hard to get +2 damage at level 1-4. you can get 1 from point blank shot, another from Inspire Courage bardic performance. I guess a 3rd point would be hard to get though (and even bardic performance is dependent on having a specific ally)


Joesi wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
The thing is getting the +2 at early levels
It's not too hard to get +2 damage at level 1-4. you can get 1 from point blank shot, another from Inspire Courage bardic performance. I guess a 3rd point would be hard to get though (and even bardic performance is dependent on having a specific ally)

Ok then... Though those still aren't exactly reliable sources of bonus damage.


Joesi wrote:

I've seen that argument before (there's a pretty big ,,/discussion in some other thread to which I think you were a part of), and I was going to include it, but decided against it.

I guess theoretically it is RAW to include all damage bonuses to the splash, although it might not be RAI/logical? due to the few sources, it's probably not a big deal at high level, but at low level +2–3 damage to splash is pretty big especially when you're splashing 3+ targets.

I'd be nice to have clarification, but I don't think anyone would clarify something like this since it's pretty straightforward under RAW? I was peer-pressured by the aforementioned thread (and DM) to believe/rule that splash shouldn't be affected (since that's what the majority in the thread and my DM thought), but I guess I'm kinda back on the fence leaning to the RAW (for selfish character-buffing reasons).

Alright sure, doing say 7-8 splash damage per target would be great early on. Just like a melee character starting with 20 str would do strong damage during those lvs. But after the early lvs that little extra damage isn't really that amazing anymore. Also if it's that big of a deal, your gm could possibly reposition the enemies so that the splash is minimized. Though unless you are often hitting groups of enemies for lots of splash damage it shouldn't matter too much either way.


Stuff you can get at first level. But not everything stacks as some are race specific:

Feats:
Point blank shot
Flagbearer
burn burn burn (depends on wether bombs are magic)

Traits:
mindlessly cruel (orc)
Zest for battle (Dwarf)

Note the trais only work if you have a morale bonus to weapon attack rolls like the one flagbearer gives.


I asked because I was looking at Kirin Strike with the bombs, thou that would obviously be a bit later in the build.


Andy Ferguson wrote:
I asked because I was looking at Kirin Strike with the bombs, thou that would obviously be a bit later in the build.

RAW that should work.

But in other cases it was FAQed that two abilities that add the same stat to something don't stack.
For example agile maneuvers and another feat that lets you add dex to CMB or CMD for one maneuver doesn't stack. (in this case once dex instead on str and once dex doesn't stack)

Could be that ppl see bomb damage + kirin style as similar.


Random unrelated question, but do alchemist bombs hurt incorporeal enemies?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Zenogu wrote:
Random unrelated question, but do alchemist bombs hurt incorporeal enemies?

Force Bombs do.


Thanks, BBT


Got to love short term Thread derailment when it is still relevant to the Main Thread.

Any effect that increases the power of an Elemental attack you make might work with the elemental damage of the Bombs with discoveries.


Umbranus wrote:


But in other cases it was FAQed that two abilities that add the same stat to something don't stack.
For example agile maneuvers and another feat that lets you add dex to CMB or CMD for one maneuver doesn't stack. (in this case once dex instead on str and once dex doesn't stack)

Where did you see that FAQed?


Andy Ferguson wrote:
Where did you see that FAQed?

I think JJ made a comment on it once, saying that two Dex bonuses were like two Morale bonuses, so they didn't stack.

It wasn't a very sensible ruling considering that a) Dex bonus isn't a type of bonus in the same way that Morale bonus is, and b) There are already abilities that allow two bonuses from the same ability score to stack (like Mindchemist's INT+INT to knowledge).

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Zenogu wrote:
Random unrelated question, but do alchemist bombs hurt incorporeal enemies?
Force Bombs do.

Actually all bombs hurt incorporeal because they're supernatural abilities, but only Force do full damage. The rest just do 1/2 damage.


Elamdri wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Zenogu wrote:
Random unrelated question, but do alchemist bombs hurt incorporeal enemies?
Force Bombs do.
Actually all bombs hurt incorporeal because they're supernatural abilities, but only Force do full damage. The rest just do 1/2 damage.

Then my friend has been cheating their Alchemist...


Roberta Yang wrote:
Andy Ferguson wrote:
Where did you see that FAQed?

I think JJ made a comment on it once, saying that two Dex bonuses were like two Morale bonuses, so they didn't stack.

It wasn't a very sensible ruling considering that a) Dex bonus isn't a type of bonus in the same way that Morale bonus is, and b) There are already abilities that allow two bonuses from the same ability score to stack (like Mindchemist's INT+INT to knowledge).

Could be that this is what I had in mind.

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