Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

Hide in Plain Sight


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Would someone official please state outright whether or not the Hide in Plain Sight supernatural ability is thwarted by darkvision.

Seriously, please - it's a yes or no question and would help me out immensely.

Thanx

Sczarni

Hide in Plain Sight (Su) as opposed to Hide in Plain Sight (Ex)?

Where is the supernatural ability listed?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Corren28 wrote:

Hide in Plain Sight (Su) as opposed to Hide in Plain Sight (Ex)?

Where is the supernatural ability listed?

It's one of the shadowdancer prestige class abilites

Shadow Lodge

Why wouldn't you have just flagged for FAQ in the shadowdancer thread?


Either A. It's a typo and should be Ex, or B. It's Su because the shadowdancer technically uses shadow powers in order to hide themselves in areas of dim light.

Even so, the shadowdancer ability does not say they create any kind of magical darkness when they hide so I would think Darkvision would work as normal; as with any Stealth check made to hide in areas of dim light or darkness.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Serum wrote:
Why wouldn't you have just flagged for FAQ in the shadowdancer thread?

Didn't know there was a shadowdancer thread. When i try to search these boards it takes forever and honestly, I am not a fan of the layout. Sorry to ruffle any feathers.

Or are you talking about the other HiPS threads that are 1 or 2 years old?

Shadow Lodge

It's very recent, and it's debating the exact topic as you're asking for.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Serum wrote:
It's very recent, and it's debating the exact topic as you're asking for.

Interesting, Thanx, that thread didn't even show up in the top 10 or so results when I searched the site on this topic.

Shadow Lodge

Try searching for "most recent first", especially if you're looking for recent relevant topics.

Cheliax

Abraxas wrote:
Serum wrote:
It's very recent, and it's debating the exact topic as you're asking for.
Interesting, Thanx, that thread didn't even show up in the top 10 or so results when I searched the site on this topic.

Might be that it is in the General Discussion boards instead of the Rules Questions section. I missed it there too.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Abraxas wrote:

Would someone official please state outright whether or not the Hide in Plain Sight supernatural ability is thwarted by darkvision.

Seriously, please - it's a yes or no question and would help me out immensely.

Thanx

Two links for you to take a look at:

THE FIRST ONE is a detailed post I wrote of how and why HiPS trumps DV.

THE SECOND ONE is a thread that has several other Stealth threads linked to it. Worth looking through if you have questions regarding Stealth.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shadowlord wrote:
Abraxas wrote:

Would someone official please state outright whether or not the Hide in Plain Sight supernatural ability is thwarted by darkvision.

Seriously, please - it's a yes or no question and would help me out immensely.

Thanx

Two links for you to take a look at:

THE FIRST ONE is a detailed post I wrote of how and why HiPS trumps DV.

THE SECOND ONE is a thread that has several other Stealth threads linked to it. Worth looking through if you have questions regarding Stealth.

Thanks for the links - I agree with you on how HiPS interacts with darkvision. I was in a discussion about this over at ENWorld - and it's been incredibly frustrating. The two I've been going back and forth about it with have now got to the point where they say it's the observer's ability to perceive shadows that allows the ability to work or not. So for a number of cases they say it doesn't even work vs creatures with low light vision.

You should take a look just for fun.


Abraxas wrote:
Shadowlord wrote:
Abraxas wrote:

Would someone official please state outright whether or not the Hide in Plain Sight supernatural ability is thwarted by darkvision.

Seriously, please - it's a yes or no question and would help me out immensely.

Thanx

Two links for you to take a look at:

THE FIRST ONE is a detailed post I wrote of how and why HiPS trumps DV.

THE SECOND ONE is a thread that has several other Stealth threads linked to it. Worth looking through if you have questions regarding Stealth.

Thanks for the links - I agree with you on how HiPS interacts with darkvision. I was in a discussion about this over at ENWorld - and it's been incredibly frustrating. The two I've been going back and forth about it with have now got to the point where they say it's the observer's ability to perceive shadows that allows the ability to work or not. So for a number of cases they say it doesn't even work vs creatures with low light vision.

You should take a look just for fun.

Feel free to copy/paste my argument or link it to them if it will help.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Abraxas wrote:

Would someone official please state outright whether or not the Hide in Plain Sight supernatural ability is thwarted by darkvision.

Seriously, please - it's a yes or no question and would help me out immensely.

I have asked the same thing. My post may demonstrate the opposing view if you are interested.

It can be found here: HIPS vs DV .

I do hope that someone at Paizo officially clarifies this issue.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Shinigaze wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Shinigaze wrote:

Dear James,

I know stealth has always been a point of contention on the forums but I have a question in regards the the Shadowdancer and Assassin's Hide in Plain Sight supernatrual ability. If a shadowdancer is standing is standing within 10' of an area of dim light does the ability let him use stealth against everybody? Or, can he not stealth against people who have for instance Low Light Vision who do not perceive the area around him as dim light but instead see it as normal light?

A point of contention in some places on the forums, perhaps. I like to think they're not a point of contention here! :-)

If a shadowdancer is within dim light and can thus use Hide in Plain Sight, yes, that lets him try to Stealth against everyone. Low Light Vision and darkvision don't particularly help or limit this.

From the mouth of James Jacobs here is his ruling.

While I don't like it, this is pretty close to the official word.

Found [http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2piz5&page=5?Stealth]HERE[/url].


Komoda is correct.

Vinecent, I posted my reply to your view and added several links to additional comments made by designers at the bottom at this link.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

If it helps you deal with JJ's not-quite-official ruling, it's a supernatural ability, so think of it as a supernatural camouflage. The simply changes colors to match the shadows and stepping into them. If you don't make your Perception roll to see where the slightly different level of blackness is, you just can't find her. Darkvision doesn't help because the same phenomenon that lets their vision penetrate darkness penetrates the shadowdancer as well. Once you pinpoint the not-quite-black/not-quite-invisible shadowdancer with a successful Perception roll, it's suddenly obvious to you that she's just standing there in the darkness, as if you just had to look at a different angle for a sidewalk chalk illusion to fall apart.


blahpers wrote:
If it helps you deal with JJ's not-quite-official ruling, it's a supernatural ability, so think of it as a supernatural camouflage. The simply changes colors to match the shadows and stepping into them. If you don't make your Perception roll to see where the slightly different level of blackness is, you just can't find her. Darkvision doesn't help because the same phenomenon that lets their vision penetrate darkness penetrates the shadowdancer as well. Once you pinpoint the not-quite-black/not-quite-invisible shadowdancer with a successful Perception roll, it's suddenly obvious to you that she's just standing there in the darkness, as if you just had to look at a different angle for a sidewalk chalk illusion to fall apart.

I like this as a thematic description for HiPS.

JJ also uses this as a thematic description:
Essentially, you appear to melt into the shadows like you were made of shadows yourself.

Blends well with yours.


blahpers wrote:
The simply changes colors to match the shadows and stepping into them.

One thing to consider..

a shadowdancer could be in BRIGHT LIGHT and use hide in plain sight if an area of dim light were close enough to them.

It is the nearby presence of dim light that lets them tap into the powers of the plane of shadow to conceal them from sight.

However, should a viewer make their perception check, the shadowdancer is still in bright light and the viewer suffers no concealment penalty against them.

Somehow many people tend to think of the shadowdancer being concealed by the dim light, and then make leaps of logic to say whatever defeats that concealment defeats the hide in plain sight.. but the two are not directly related in any way, shape, or form.

-James


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
james maissen wrote:
blahpers wrote:
The simply changes colors to match the shadows and stepping into them.

One thing to consider..

a shadowdancer could be in BRIGHT LIGHT and use hide in plain sight if an area of dim light were close enough to them.

It is the nearby presence of dim light that lets them tap into the powers of the plane of shadow to conceal them from sight.

However, should a viewer make their perception check, the shadowdancer is still in bright light and the viewer suffers no concealment penalty against them.

Somehow many people tend to think of the shadowdancer being concealed by the dim light, and then make leaps of logic to say whatever defeats that concealment defeats the hide in plain sight.. but the two are not directly related in any way, shape, or form.

-James

Correct. The "concealment" they "gain" is mere illusion; trying to defeat the "concealment" is a red herring.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Hide in Plain Sight All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.