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RPG Superstar 2015

Can You Magically Target a Creature With Concealment If You Have Blindsense?


Rules Questions


Basically, if a monster like a dragon could pinpoint the location of a creature (that has concealment) using blindsense, could they then freely target them with a spell like Power Word Stun?

Dedicated Voter 2013

Blindsense (Ex) Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment against the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.

So if you meet all the rules for blindsense, yes. If the dragon still need line of sight or effect for the spell to work, then no.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

princeimrahil wrote:
Basically, if a monster like a dragon could pinpoint the location of a creature (that has concealment) using blindsense, could they then freely target them with a spell like Power Word Stun?

Yes. Targeted spells require no attack rolls, so as long as you know which square your target occupies they work just fine.


that's not quite true, greysector. blindsense is no different than correctly guessing an invisible/shrouded in darkness character's location. blindSIGHT does count as seeing a creature (even if it doesn't notice details like color, etc)

The Magic Rules for Targetting wrote:
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target.

so as a general rule, you DO need to see the target... UNLESS the spell is a touch spell, in which case a successful touch attack (succeeding on miss chance roll as appropriate) is sufficient, without needing to see them.

EDIT: it doesn't actually need to BE a touch spell, but if you can't see them, you DO need to touch them, so if you could make a normal unarmed strike / other physical attack against them, you could then immediately cast a spell against them (e.g. a quickened spell), albeit if they readied an action to move away I wouldn't allow the spell to still target them succesfully.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2015

Quandary wrote:
that's not quite true, greysector. blindsense is no different than correctly guessing an invisible/shrouded in darkness character's location. blindSIGHT does count as seeing a creature (even if it doesn't notice details like color, etc)
The Magic Rules for Targetting wrote:
Target or Targets: Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target.

so as a general rule, you DO need to see the target... UNLESS the spell is a touch spell, in which case a successful touch attack (succeeding on miss chance roll as appropriate) is sufficient, without needing to see them.

EDIT: it doesn't actually need to BE a touch spell, but if you can't see them, you DO need to touch them, so if you could make a normal unarmed strike / other physical attack against them, you could then immediately cast a spell against them (e.g. a quickened spell), albeit if they readied an action to move away I wouldn't allow the spell to still target them succesfully.

Gosh darn it, I could have sworn that was not the case. Perhaps it was part of the FAQ that I played under in 3.5. Anyway, ignore what I said as I was obviously wrong.


there's also the full-round action to 'feel out' the presence of a creature in a square without actually attacking, that should also count as a touch to enable casting a non-touch spell as a swift action...


Blindsense does not do it, but blindsight would allow it. All blindsense allows you to do is detect which square they are in.

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