|Charlie Bell RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16|
wiki entry below for ADHD symptoms are very similar and does happen in adults but only rarely. Knowing this it might help to deal with it more.
Speaking as someone with ADHD, as an adult they should still be able to mandate some level of control over their symptoms, or if too extreme either medicate themselves (under doctor's orders) or have the maturity to remove themselves from the table.
Lack of maturity is the problem here more than any medical condition he may or may not have.
Have you tried a squirt bottle? It worked wonders on my friend's cat.
Have you seen anything that actually got this player a bit more invested in the game and acting a bit more rationally?
I've seen players who didn't seem to understand the value and time put into painting and maintaining miniatures...until they had one of their own to take care of.
Another didn't give a darn about the game...until he had a character that he absolutely vibed with and began to like playing.
And some men...you just can't reach.
Honestly, I think he would be much more at home in a extremely rules-light, wacky, light-hearted game.
We are playing Legacy of Fire, and though we enjoy our light-hearted moments, we also enjoy our serious RP.
If this were Maid RPG, I think he would be more interested.
Have you asked him to replace the miniatures he destroyed? Discovering actions have consequences is often a revelation for the immature. It's also the right thing for him to do.
He stated his actions were "exaggerated" when I told him I did appreciate him slamming my miniatures together. This was his answer to why he was not responsible.
This was combined with what could be described as "whimpering", and "sad puppy dog eyes".
On top of that, ask the GM to take all his pretend-actions at face value, no take-backsies. I did the same thing with one of my players. He plays a blaster-sorcerer and in the beginning, every time I described some kind of critter for fluff and scenery, he said "I blast it with *insert destructive spell here*" as a joke or when the players entered a room with a mechanism of which they KNEW (due to good investigation beforehand) that it would do something bad, he immediately said "I trigger the mechanism" and then took it back.
This strategy should at least help with the in-game stress, because if he keeps doing stupid things, sooner or later the party will kick him out IT.
Concerning the OT problems, I'm with the others. Let him have the normal minis back and if he damages one again, have him repay you the price for a fully painted mini. IT as well as OT stupid behaviour has consequences. If he doesn't learn that, he's gonna have a hard time in life, so essentially ayou're doing him a favour.
He's 23 so treat him like an adult. Try to discuss it outside of the game (I'm assuming your group shares phone numbers) so he won't feel like you're ambushing him in front of the group. Be direct and let him know that you feel he's be disruptive and you're finding it annoying when you play. Make sure you have a few specific examples as odds are he's going to be defensive, but don't lay into him. Most of all, find out why he's behaving as he is. That way you'll know how to proceed after your conversation.
Let us know if another character assassination plan is needed.
When people do things that irritate me I ask them to stop in a polite fashion. If they continue doing things that irritate me I ask them again but less politely. If I have no control over the situation then I do what I have control over...and remove myself from the situation.
In my youth I ran a game that my brother-in-law pushed his way into. He was so irritating (without realizing he was being irritating) that, after repeated attempts to get him to calm down and be less disruptive, we moved the game and didn't tell him where we moved it to. I still feel silly for having taking the coward's way out but it saved that campaign.
No Sarcasm intended, I think its awesome that that your dm provides something as interesting as a cheese tasting and exotic beers as a treat for the game. Sounds like a great dm, who takes the host part of dming seriously. I was intending to be funny with my comment but i can see how it could be seen as sarcastic, my apologies.
Diplomacy is always best, but you can rarely change another person's mind, they have to do it themselves. Be prepared to be talking to deaf ears and have alternative strategies prepared if being lawful good doesn't work... Especially if you want to continue in the group, but are new/don't have the authority to remove him from the table.
From my seat it sounds like your guy isn't suffering from anything more clinical than lack of attention. He's not interested in the game, but wants to be the focus of the table.
I think every veteran gamer probably has a story about "a friend of a friend" where friend X tried to get friend Y interested in the hobby, but failed. In most cases that simply means friend Y fell asleep or went to watch TV in another room.
I still think removing the gaming tools that they all apparently want to have there is the way to go about it, yes it means you're going to suffer a wee bit in the process as will the good players.
However it puts the responsibility firmly upon the GM, the host, and the bad player.
Just come in and tell them all that since you know guy X doesn't value your possessions you're not comfortable bringing them with you anymore, and that this is only exacerbated since you're not having as much fun.
As a result there's no sense putting in the extra effort bringing all that stuff requires from you.
Let them know that when you're convinced that this guy can act like a reasonable adult and show respect for you and your possessions you're amenable to the idea of bringing the stuff back but until such time you're afraid that you can't do anything else.
The disrespect of property is only part of the problem though.
Oh I know but disrespect of your property is indicative of disrespect for you as a person which is what his other disruptive behavior is essentially.
That's why I felt it was important to tell the group why you're doing it and the conditions for them to get back all the goodies.
Mind you this will fail if rather than address the problem they choose to avoid confrontation by either dealing with not having all the good parts of the game or supply those on their own.
Show him how to calculate THAC0 next time. Then watch as he never complains about "hard math" again.
I want to favorite this post more than once.
I would approach the player away from the gaming table and have an earnest and frank conversation about your concerns and how his behaviour makes you feel. Ask him nicely to consider the enjoyment of his fellow players, and if he continues to behave that way...
FEED HIS SCREAMING SOUL TO ALMIGHTY CTHULHU!
I mean, politely excuse yourself from the table and go enjoy more craft beers and cheeses with your other friends.
Unfortunately, yes. I am currently dealing something with this myself. I won't get off-topic trying to diagnose the guy, because there's really nothing to discuss other than DM advice. So here goes:
You're the DM. Period. You're putting in your time and effort to provide an entertaining and engaging experience to your players. You should not have to tolerate this kind of behavior, or be disrespected in such a way. Regardless of whether or not you're the host, you need to be firm and professional about it. You're still the DM. Call him out on it EVERY time he does it. Stop the game. Make the other players suffer just as bad as you are. They will eventually either side with you and put the pressure on him, or they will agree with you that he needs to go.
Bottom-line in my opinion: Kick him. He doesn't respect you or the other players by doing what he's doing. Address it. If it doesn't change. Kick him. If his buddy gets upset and leaves too, fine, the group will be better for it. Trust me, I've done it. I've told people at the table to get up and get their things and go. One time I told someone to walk, and his friend piped in. I told him that if he didn't like, he could go join his friend and they can go play together. They both left, and we moved on.
On two items in particular:
"Math is hard!"
Pathfinder is simple addition and subtraction. It's not calculus or algebra. Sure, it's a lot of math, but a little time and prep, knowing the rules and owning a calculator will go along way. Next time he declares that math is hard, and he can't calculate his attack bonus, he automatically misses, he automatically fails his skill check. Period. If anyone objects, then have them figure out his math, and continue combat. If they're still helping him, skip them. People will get it eventually.
"Announces that his PC is attacking a NPC, or performing some other strange action, and seconds later stating his PC is not performing the action."
That is the biggest, most aggravating offense of all at my table. Players do that CONSTANTLY. They'll be talking to an NPC, and I'll say something like "after he says this, he turns and walks over to the table" and someone will jump in and say "I stab him in the back" or something inane like that. Whenever I would pose the question "what is your character doing right now?" I would get really stupid answers, some of which I can't even repeat on the forums. Sometimes the action is directed towards another player. For me its probably the most disruptive thing of all. It disrupts everyone at the table, and often invites them to join in. It breaks the scene, and everyone's concentration and focus at the table. As DM, I began to start feeling like I couldn't say anything without opening the door for someone to say something stupid.
When this happens I'll reply with something like "Come on, are you going to role-play seriously or not? If not, don't play." or my favorite - roll with whatever they're saying and punish them in game for it. If they say they're stabbing the NPC in the back when he turns around, make them roll and start the encounter. If they refuse to roll because they "didn't really do that" - roll for them. Then throw guards at them when the person calls for help, or better yet, make the NPC and their friends wipe the floor with them. In the case of a player who is disruptive about searching for treasure (they keep asking for something in particular that they simply would not find lying around), I simply say "no, come to think of it - there's nothing of value in the room. Sorry." I'm waiting to see how long it takes them to realize that every time the guy does this, they find nothing where treasure should be.
The last player to join our group plays a Gunslinger. The first major NPC he met, he said "I put my pistol to his head" because he didn't like the guy. I started the encounter as if he really did it, and when the player protested with "no, I'm not really doing that, ha-ha" I told him that next time he says something like that we're rolling with it and he better be ready to back it up. So far, he hasn't done it again.
Like I said, at the end of the day, you're the DM. You make the rules and you need to enforce them. Keep the people who respect you, kick the ones who don't.
Just as a point BBT is NOT the DM he said so himself earlier iirc, although he does seem to be providing 90% of the material things you usually see DMs doing.
Okay, if that were me in your shoes, this would be the part where I forgot I was a Quaker and would haul off and punch him.
That wouldn't be the mature or helpful response, mind, but damn, you've put up with damn well more than you should have by a long shot.
DeathQuaker, something about your statement scares me. I just imagined the Quaker Oats man fighting Mr. T
OK. If I understand; you have protected your property for now, so your principle problem is the disruption and time wasting this guy's behavior is causing?
If you were the DM, you would have a half-dozen arrows in your quiver to fix this behavior, but as a player, you are feeling frustrated at having to put up with this without the DM doing anything.
For now, you have to do what your DM told you: wait and give him time. It's the DM's game. Treat his decision with the respect you would ask him to treat yours. He may have plans already to remedy the situation - he's even more a victim of the game disruption than you are; it's his game being hijacked. Give him the benifit of the doubt and give the troublemaker time...and rope. By that I mean; document his behavior. Take notes of the stuff he does and the time it wastes. Seriously. I reccomend a yellow legal tablet. When you have to rally the troops for the final showdown, having everything in writing will make you three times more persuasive. There is a reason lawyers do that, you know. He can deny all he wants; you have it in black and yellow.
Sorry for the wall of text. I wanted to take your question seriously and give you the best answer I could.
I pity the fool who messes with my minis.
That is also an awesome image, I'll have to see if I can draw it. (Although being a liberal Quaker from modern day sort of times, I look more like a grunge hippie--with geek overtones of course--than a 17th century guy in plain clothes, for the record.)
Apologies for going OT.
Orthos you are correct here even if he does have the problem he should know how to deal with it and no-body else should have to diagnose or sort it out at the table, apologies to the OP there. Its his maturity thats in question as you say. I would hate to have someone like that in our game.
Looking back on it you say that in he fell asleep during the game sessions before he woke up and started acting like a 5 year old?
Why oh why did the DM not kick the guy out then or at least have a word? He was being disrectful then and obviusly found the whole game boring and didn't want to be there.
Is the friend you mention in the game with you or is he on his own? if the friend is there maybe talk to him about the concerns first, he may be unaware of how its affecting everything as he may be used to his actions and sees nothing wrong with them.
personaly if it was me I would say something quick as things could get ugly fast, breaking other peoples property is not funny and makes the disruption of the game rather personal.
It's time to deliver Wheaton's Furious C*ckpunch!
The major conflict is see here is that I mostly want to respond to how cool beer & cheese gaming would be for the rest of us, instead of your original post.
I paint my own minis, with 200+ complete. I lost count. This kid seemingly can't keep his cool at the table, but if someone were bashing together my minis, I would lose my s@$$ in a heartbeat. There is a reason my 12 year old doesn't get to play with my figurines and terrain anymore. Don't worry about the choice to treat him as an adult or kid. The player needs to know exactly how you feel about these things, and believe with no uncertainty that you are serious. Maybe anger with invoke a little fear, and lead to a little respect.
In my gaming group, we all tolerate each other's personality quirks, but this would not fly at our table, and should not fly at yours either.
As this is mostly a newer group, I need to make a point to not appear as the aggressor.
It seems that this fellow is there to have fun, and enjoy the company of others, but this activity is one that requires some patience, and a bit of maturity.
I, as is known amongst my close friends, have incredible patience.
I want to handle this in a manner that is gentle, and stress-free for other players, but I need to make sure I am not pushed to my limit.
BBT, I look forward to your report.
You're going to try the 'softly, softly' approach; excellent!
When it fails just tell us what happened and we'll advise you on the RAW for killing a ManChild and getting away with it, and you can pay us in doughnuts and painted minis.
I carry a vial of the Ebola germ for 'home defence'.