Why I think psionics is insane and why I'm not allowing my players to use it

[Cold Napalm]

wraithstrike wrote:

Cold Napalm wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I have never had CD's issues. I would say you can play it by my rules or make a new character those are your options.

And have them go okay...and then listen to them moan for another session? No thanks.

They can moan all they want, but I would not discuss it. I would just start running the game. By discussing it might encourage them to keep trying to argue the point. I also tell players that all such discussion will be handled before gameday. I have not had perfect players but I have never had to keep telling them the same thing over and over either. I would probably pass the CRB to them if that were to happen.

Okay so a person who after agreeing to the fact that I will be running psionics with transparency and then goes on a tirade about how it should not be so is gonna listen to any suggestion about when to do this discussion because?!? You seem to be the rather misguided impression that a person who does that is even remotely a reasonable person.

[Matthew Morris]

Don't forget Castrovel for your psionic needs.

Spoiler:

My Golarion Elans are Azlanti survivors who fled to Castrovel and learned psionics to survive. They 'reformmated' themselves into Elans, and are no coming back to Golarion in drips, finding other worthy of immortality.

[cmastah]

Jeremy Smith wrote:

cmastah wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

<---He has never had an issue with psionics

There is a popular writeup online called "Myth: The XPH is overpowered" or something like that. You should read it.

Since I am feeling nice today I will give you a link to it.

Link to the info

I will also add the things that have changed for DSP have made psionics more balanced, not less.

You can also visit the DSP boards if you have questions you need answered.

Hey, thanks man, I read the article and it even answered issues I didn't even know about.

I'll go ahead and allow psionics in my campaign with the one caveat that SR=PR and that magic and psionics interact with each other normally. I think the DSP books probably also converted XP costs into gold costs as well.

As the writer of said Myth thread (I was Bacris on the WotC forums) and the publisher of Psionics Unleashed, feel free to send me any questions you might have.

BTW, that caveat you mention - that's the way the system is designed to work. :) That's not a caveat - that's the rules as intended.

Thanks! :)

I was actually surprised that magic and psionics interacting with each other normally was the default, when I saw PR and detect psionics I assumed the worst.

One of my players has always been infatuated with the idea of psionics and messing with people's minds and in all honesty I completely support people who come up with a concept of who/what their character is and want to do what I can to help them realize that concept. A concept that a player is EXCITED about tells me that he can bring life to his character and is not just numbers on a page (the munchkins are getting me down :/).

I have to say though, the paizo forums have extremely friendly and helpful members. I won't deny that my first post (and the thread title) is quite a bit childish (for which I apologize), but the constructive criticism I got despite that post is actually amazing and humbling to be honest. :)

[Ashiel]

cmastah wrote:

(the munchkins are getting me down :/).

*pats* We've all been there man. (^-^)

[TriOmegaZero]

Obligatory.

[Scott_UAT]

As a design note:

The CONCEPT of psychic powers is not inherently broken. The IMPLEMENTATION is.

[Cold Napalm]

Scott_UAT wrote:

As a design note:

The CONCEPT of psychic powers is not inherently broken. The IMPLEMENTATION is.

No, not even that. Using the default transparency system, it works JUST fine. The break down happens because a large portion of psionics fanbase (at least around here...as it is 100% of the ones I have met to date) can not accept that ruleset and must play under the different ruleset...which does NOT work just fine...hence why it is a optional and not even a recommended optional rule. Compound this with the player entitlement movement where people think as a player whatever they want for the rules should be what happens...and yeah...that optional rule just becomes a big giant headache.

[Kolokotroni]

cmastah wrote:

Thanks! :)

I was actually surprised that magic and psionics interacting with each other normally was the default, when I saw PR and detect psionics I assumed the worst.

One of my players has always been infatuated with the idea of psionics and messing with people's minds and in all honesty I completely support people who come up with a concept of who/what their character is and want to do what I can to help them realize that concept. A concept that a player is EXCITED about tells me that he can bring life to his character and is not just numbers on a page (the munchkins are getting me down :/).

I have to say though, the paizo forums have extremely friendly and helpful members. I won't deny that my first post (and the thread title) is quite a bit childish (for which I apologize), but the constructive criticism I got despite that post is actually amazing and humbling to be honest. :)

Dont worry too much, its a wildly common issue with people that dont like psionics. I feel like there had to be like an antipsionics superpac out their running attack adds or something because despite the fact that psi-magic transparency has been the default for like a decade, many still think it is not the case.

Glad you got some useful inputs. Also if you want to get a feel for how this kind of transparency works in a setting, take a look at the taltos novels by steven brust, there there are 3 kinds of magic, arcane, witchcraft and psionics, and all 3 are better at different things and not as good at others. They all work differently, but can all be used for the same purposes if you are good enough at them.

[wraithstrike]

Cold Napalm wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

Cold Napalm wrote:

wraithstrike wrote:

I have never had CD's issues. I would say you can play it by my rules or make a new character those are your options.

And have them go okay...and then listen to them moan for another session? No thanks.

They can moan all they want, but I would not discuss it. I would just start running the game. By discussing it might encourage them to keep trying to argue the point. I also tell players that all such discussion will be handled before gameday. I have not had perfect players but I have never had to keep telling them the same thing over and over either. I would probably pass the CRB to them if that were to happen.

Okay so a person who after agreeing to the fact that I will be running psionics with transparency and then goes on a tirade about how it should not be so is gonna listen to any suggestion about when to do this discussion because?!? You seem to be the rather misguided impression that a person who does that is even remotely a reasonable person.

The person might very well understand why it should not be allowed, and just want to try to push the issue hoping you break down. I had a player like that once*, but with that aside I hope you get better players next time. That would annoy me to no end if I had to deal with several players like that.

*He told me more than once his goal was to break the game. Yeah he was one of those.

[Cold Napalm]

wraithstrike wrote:

The person might very well understand why it should not be allowed, and just want to try to push the issue hoping you break down. I had a player like that once*, but with that aside I hope you get better players next time. That would annoy me to no end if I had to deal with several players like that.

*He told me more than once his goal was to break the game. Yeah he was one of those.

See...several and I would not be so annoyed...dozens...and yeah I am annoyed to no ends. It's just an auto boot now. If I allow psionics on your request and you even make one blip about the transparancey rule...out goes you and out goes psionics. I was a lot nicer several dozen psionic players ago. And the sad thing is I am a DM of the opinion that psionics isn't even OP and as such one of the few DM in this area that would even allow it. Most DM around here mistakenly think psionics is OP and ban it.

[UlrichVonLichtenstein]

Personally, I've never even looked at Psionics (although I had a friend play one in a game).

Rather than judge a book by its cover (no pun intended)I'm coming into this discussion open-minded and unbiased...

I can understand that if a DM doesnt undetstand the rules pertaining to a certain system/class/etc that they wouldnt allow it to be played. But by the same token, one shouldt simply ban it outright, but rather take the time to study the system before making a final/permanent decision on it.

With that said, I've been reading previous posts here and it seems like some of you *cough (icyshadow)cough* are just a bunch of whiners with nothing helpful to say. Honestl, guys, if whatever happend to that mantra Thumper taught us? - If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all...

[TriOmegaZero]

Can you imagine how little traffic there would be if only nice things were transmitted?

[Ashiel]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Can you imagine how little traffic there would be if only nice things were transmitted?

Quality vs Quantity. :)

[GM Elton]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Don't forget Castrovel for your psionic needs.

** spoiler omitted **

I better re-read Castrovel, then.