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Two weapon warrior multiclass?


Advice


Ok, so I'm creating a character right now and the GM is using the River Kingdoms, Razmiran, and the surrounding areas as the playing field.
The whole thing is probably gonna be a mid to high level game overall, simply because of the mercenary opportunities in the area.
I'm creating a rather fun little character background. He's one armed mostly (the second one he lost early on in Numeria, from around half the forearm on down he still has it). Now, I'm gonna create a real standoffish SOB, Chaotic Neutral, Gorum. Pretty standard stuff, human, Kellid, probably a Numerian Trait and a Combat one.
Anyway, here's the thing: because he's one armed, he's going to be using a Scizor in his mutilated arm (pretty much permanently strapped on there like a prosthetic). Only being able to wield one different weapon does limit him a bit so I was wondering about something fun like the Jotungrip from Titanmauler Archtype, and how that would stack up with Two Weapon Warrior Fighter Archtype.
I'm inexperienced with two weapon user types, usually go with a big two-hander.
Being able to wield a Keen Falchion in one hand can definitely make up for the other only able to use a Scizore. Only problem is, early on he's gonna take some penalties in attack rolls. That's less of a concern for me.
My question is should I got 2 levels of Titan Mauler and then to Two Weapon Warrior for a build like this? Or is there something more viable? Also, does the Jotungrip stack well with Two Weapon Warrior? If so, what do people recommend by way of feats? I was thinking of going the Deadly Stroke route, but if I do, would I have to make any major sacrifices by way of Two Weapon fighting feats? Or am I going about this all wrong?


Personally, I wouldn't use the Titan Mauler for this character. I don't think that using a slightly larger weapon in your good hand (2H instead of 1H weapon) will ever be worth -2 on attack rolls.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd say you could do OK with titan mauler/two-weapon warrior, although you will need a high Dex. You may be better off with multi-classing into ranger instead of fighter: all you need is a 15-16 Dex to qualify for Two-Weapon Fighting and you can use your Combat Style feats to pick up Double Slice (2nd level ranger) and Improved Two Weapon Fighting (6th level ranger) while you concentrate on increasing Str as much as possible.

Still, 2d4 for a falchion isn't much of an upgrade over 1d6 for a scimitar. You might want to look at picking up Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Elven Curve Blade) for 1d10 damage, instead. As an added benefit for multi-classing into ranger, you can cast lead blades: 1d10 becomes 2d8 when lead blades is active.


Hmmm, good points all. However, I don't think I'm going to go with a Elven Blade simply because meh, I hate elves. Blech.
Now however, I'm thinking maybe a Falcata might be a better match for the character. Critical rate is not as good, but the multiplier is pretty nasty, and the weapon is very distinctive and probably a bit rarer, simply because it requires a feat to use properly and is more of a national weapon.
Also, decided against the deadly stroke route. With a 1 handed weapon character it doesn't seem nearly as worth it.

Sczarni

I would go Ranger 6 / Fighter 4 for the first 10 levels. Ranger to skip those DEX prerequisites and Fighter for the Feats.

If your happy stopping the TWF chain at Improved TWF stop at Ranger 6 and go Fighter the rest of the way for Weapon training. If doing that the Guide archetype is a good route.

I'd actually suggest against using a Ranger feat for Double Slice. With an 18 STR it will add 2 damage to your off hand attacks - I'd defer that until later when you have a magic item to get you the DEX requirement and a really big STR mod to make it pay off. Plus if you take it as a fighter bonus feat you have the option to retrain it if you don't get much mileage from it.


Really, really good point right there.
Even when I play a fighter, I usually forget about the retraining of feats. One of the big things right there.
Damn there's a lot more involved with TWF than THF (Two weapon fighting vs Two Handed Fighting). I almost prefer the big dumb hulk-smash to this maniac I'm building, but screw it. I gotta go through with it all the way.
Now I'm looking at the ranger as a possible choice simply to avoid some of those early high stat requirements. My big question is this: Is Greater Two Weapon Fighting worth staying on until level 10? I would honestly say no, simply because you sacrifice too many feats and levels of fighter (as well as abilities with Two Weapon Warrior) but I'd like to get others opinions on the matter.

With regards to Regular Fighter vs Two Weapon Warrior, are the damage benefits worth giving up Weapon Training? I was always curious about that, simply because it looks like that if you took Dueling Gloves, you wouldn't be able to get the full benefits of them as a fighter because TWW gives up Weapon Training for those special benefits. I might be misinterpreting it though, as it could be reasoned that it is another form of weapon training.
And thanks for suggesting ranger, that DEFINITELY helps, simply because I figured going Two Weapon Warrior all the way would be insanely stat consumptive and involve a helluva lot of re-training. With Ranger to 6th, I can get those feats without having to pump dex as my best stat (and I can still focus on Str).

Sczarni

I have to say I like your idea quite a bit. Very unique and memorable character to be sure... I may steal the idea for an NPC in one of my games. It just oozes top level henchman for the BBEG.

I'll have to think of a punny name like one of the old James Bond villains.


Well, I changed my guy's background to him being a Taldan (bit of a standoffish type to say the least).
Very aggressive and bloodthirsty as a child, son of nobility of course, killed the wrong person in a duel, and the man's family came after him, took his left hand as a bit of vengeance. He's learned nothing from the lesson they taught him though, and is still violent, aggressive, and intense. He's come to worship Gorum, rather fervently as well. Essentially, after that, he was cast out.

Name
Ambros Trumbull
Taldan
Traits (Heart of the Streets, alternate, replaces skilled)
Racial Traits
Killer (will come in handy with his Falcata I think)
Wealthy Dabbler (Resistance and Dancing Lights)
Alignment
Chaotic Neutral (at best, but he has tendencies towards both good and evil. He hates being insulted, especially for his mental faculties, and will often fly off at the handle, and while he has few qualms about killing, he doesn't often go out of his way to ruthlessly murder people or hunt them down unless they've really done him wrong)

So far, that's what I got. Gonna start off with 6 levels of ranger, both for the feats and for the spells (probably Lead Blades, Longstrider, Entangle and whatever else I can stuff in there by level 6).
After that, heading over to Two Weapon Fighter and really rack up the damage.
Only thing about ranger is what to choose as his favored enemy. I would think Human because of how common they are, and the fact that he is a bit of a city boy.

Sczarni

Do you want or have plans for an Animal Companion? If not you can go Guide and instead of FE gain "Ranger's Focus". If you're going to stop at Ranger 6 this is not a bad option. If you were going with more Ranger you'd have to consider losing out on the "Instant Enemy" spell in addition to the Animal Companion - which may not be worth it.

As for other spealls - I actually get some mileage out of Resist Energy.

*Edit - Yes Human is a good choice for Favoured Enemy.


Animal companion never even occurred to me. Heh. Gonna go with the Focus ability to grant favored enemy to his allies.


Ranger doesn't really get you out of the dex prerequisites. It only gets enough bonus feats to get the base TWF stuff and TWF doesn't pay off without two weapon rend or loads of bonus damage (ie. smite, challenge, or sneak attack). What ranger can get you is prereq free Power Attack for a finesse build, but that's only two levels.

Certainly ranger 6 isn't going to do you any good when you hit level 11 and need a 19 dex feat to keep your attacks up.

I'd stick to fighter, rogue, paladin, or cavalier for TWF. I'm pretty sure ranger TWF is a trap.


From d20pfsrd

"The ranger's expertise manifests in the form of bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level. He can choose feats from his selected combat style, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites."

Now, for two weapon rend, you need the following: Dex 17, Double Slice, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.

I wouldn't need 19 dex unless I wanted to get Greater Two weapon fighting. I'm not sure it's worth it for an extra attack on an offhand weapon, especially at -10.
Scizore isn't light, it's 1-handed martial but not light.
That's why after ranger benefits at 6, change to Two weapon warrior and increase damage as well as reduce penalties further.

Dex to 17 is important because it's a requirement for Two Weapon Rend, and outside of Ranger class I still need the requirements for that particular feat.

Using two non-light weapons will give me a penalty, but I'm hoping to counter balance it with the bonuses from TWW.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Krodjin wrote:
I'd actually suggest against using a Ranger feat for Double Slice. With an 18 STR it will add 2 damage to your off hand attacks - I'd defer that until later when you have a magic item to get you the DEX requirement and a really big STR mod to make it pay off. Plus if you take it as a fighter bonus feat you have the option to retrain it if you don't get much mileage from it.

The reason I recommended Double Slice with the ranger's Combat Style feat is because I made the assumption that the character would already have Two-Weapon Fighting. Also the main reason you want Double Slice is to qualify for Two-Weapon Rend, not for the slight bump in off-hand damage; don't forget that permanent bonuses (such as a belt of incredible Dexterity +2 or a belt of physical might (Str, Dex) +2) count for meeting feat prerequisites (Core Rulebook, pg. 555).

Sczarni

Of course if he went Ranger 10 he could take Two Weapon Rend without taking Double Slice at all.

And yes I was aware that magical items could give stat boosts to meet per-requisites - but thank you for posting the age number!

Cheers

Sczarni

^still have trouble typing on iPad
Ha!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The question was originally for a multi-classed barbarian/(fighter or ranger). Added Str bonuses from Rage (on top of normal Str bonuses) start to stack up when they apply to off-hand attacks with Double Slice; especially when you don't need to keep pumping Dex for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Two-Weapon Rend is probably not worth waiting on with a multi-classed barbarian/ranger (or ranger/barbarian); even with only two levels of titan mauler to pick up Jotungrip, taking it at barbarian 2/ranger 9 and taking Greater Two-Weapon Fighting at ranger 10 is probably one of the better choices (unless going for a critical-focused build, for which Two-Weapon Rend is not central).

Personally, I prefer six levels of invulnerable rager, taking Lesser Spirit Totem and Spirit Totem as two out of three rage power choices, for a multi-classed barbarian/ranger (spirit ranger archetype, probably). Toothy half-orc (for bite attacks at any time) with an orc double-axe for being able to use the same weapon for two-handed and two-weapon fighting (and not having to drop a weapon to cast).

A single-classed ranger would be a different build, because there are different considerations.

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