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Alchemist or Wizard?


Advice

Grand Lodge

I have some GM credit stacked up in PFS and I'm thinking of playing either an Alchemist or a Wizard. I have a concept in mind for each, but don't really want to divide my attention between the two. Which one would you suggest?

1) Gnome Alchemist (grenadier/saboteur) with pyromaniac, making heavy use of bombs and eventually taking the Wings discovery to become an aerial bomber.

2) Human Conjurer (teleporter, opposed by divination and enchantment) an Osirion tomb raider who alternates between team/aoe buffs and summoned creatures to dominate combat.


Okay, Wizard is cool and all, but Alchemist all the way.

I have a hard-on for the Alchemist class because I'm not allowed to play it. That and he gets some really cool sounding abilities.


Whelp because making choices so much easier... Go wizard 100%. :) or to be honest the one you want to play more.

I currently have an alchemist my group, and I myself am playing a wizard.

Hes more a ragechemist though so I cant say the same for you, but out of combat his skills are meh. As a wizard you almost always have something to contribute to a situation... even if its only a foot in the mouth because you dumped charisma. :P Teleportaion sub-school is my favorite because goodbye grapple wrecking your day, although my opposing schools were necromancy and enchantment. Opposition research at later levels can get you the other back. You have double spot checks and the like due to your familiar, or you have a really nice enhanced item, or even make him a spellbinder for added flavor / fun. It just seems with metamagic, and casters in general, there are just so many different feats, skills, and just all around options you have that I dont feel many other classes get. Thats just my 2 cents. At the end of the day pick the one you think you'll role-play the most, and thusly enjoy the most. :)

Shadow Lodge

I'm actually quite curious as to whether anyone has gone one of these classes and wished they picked something else?

Wizard is incredibly common, but I don't see many pure Alchemists around, and I've never worked out why?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Alchemist...only because he is a gnome and gnomes are awesomely combustable.

Silver Crusade

I'm currently playing a bomber alchemist, and they're a lot of fun. Not as char-op as a feral mutagen switch-hitter or a conjurer wizard, but fun.

What I like is that you're quite the skill monkey and get good damage.

The key is to build the bomber as a controller class. Focus on things like Tanglefoot Bomb, Confusion Bomb, Stink Bomb, Poison Bomb, Force Bomb, and the like. The great thing is that you get those status effects at an ever scaling DC: A conjurer wizard's Stinking cloud is going to cap out at third level unless he takes Heightened spell, while your DC just natural keeps climbing.

And since you are an Int build with 4 skills per level, you have skills galore.

Infusion is pretty much mandatory since you really don't get much use out of your own spells. Your bombs are in essence your spells (And you need to think of them that way). With my current character, I pretty much pass out my spells in the morning like a pharmacist and then light people on fire.

If you REALLY want to be a jackass: a wand of lesser restoration, UMD, and the Mindchemist Archetype will just wreck stuff.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, with alchemist discoveries, there are all sorts of sneaky ways to mess up opponents or save yourself from death. I especially love Spontaneous healing and healing touch together because they give you 100 extra hp per day delivered through a fast healing 5 that you can share with party members. I always love that one. Also, you can have other characters use your spells through infusions. Your party will love you.

Cheliax

Elamdri wrote:

I'm currently playing a bomber alchemist, and they're a lot of fun. Not as char-op as a feral mutagen switch-hitter or a conjurer wizard, but fun.

What I like is that you're quite the skill monkey and get good damage.

The key is to build the bomber as a controller class. Focus on things like Tanglefoot Bomb, Confusion Bomb, Stink Bomb, Poison Bomb, Force Bomb, and the like. The great thing is that you get those status effects at an ever scaling DC: A conjurer wizard's Stinking cloud is going to cap out at third level unless he takes Heightened spell, while your DC just natural keeps climbing.

And since you are an Int build with 4 skills per level, you have skills galore.

Infusion is pretty much mandatory since you really don't get much use out of your own spells. Your bombs are in essence your spells (And you need to think of them that way). With my current character, I pretty much pass out my spells in the morning like a pharmacist and then light people on fire.

If you REALLY want to be a jackass: a wand of lesser restoration, UMD, and the Mindchemist Archetype will just wreck stuff.

You don't even need to UMD that wand. Lesser Restoration is on your spell list, and Alchemists can activate spell trigger items.

Silver Crusade

Illeist wrote:
Elamdri wrote:

I'm currently playing a bomber alchemist, and they're a lot of fun. Not as char-op as a feral mutagen switch-hitter or a conjurer wizard, but fun.

What I like is that you're quite the skill monkey and get good damage.

The key is to build the bomber as a controller class. Focus on things like Tanglefoot Bomb, Confusion Bomb, Stink Bomb, Poison Bomb, Force Bomb, and the like. The great thing is that you get those status effects at an ever scaling DC: A conjurer wizard's Stinking cloud is going to cap out at third level unless he takes Heightened spell, while your DC just natural keeps climbing.

And since you are an Int build with 4 skills per level, you have skills galore.

Infusion is pretty much mandatory since you really don't get much use out of your own spells. Your bombs are in essence your spells (And you need to think of them that way). With my current character, I pretty much pass out my spells in the morning like a pharmacist and then light people on fire.

If you REALLY want to be a jackass: a wand of lesser restoration, UMD, and the Mindchemist Archetype will just wreck stuff.

You don't even need to UMD that wand. Lesser Restoration is on your spell list, and Alchemists can activate spell trigger items.

Ah, you're right, I'm thinking of a different wand. I have UMD and am the party wand monkey. Sometimes I forget I don't have to always roll. Doesn't really matter, It's almost impossible for me to fail the roll.

Grand Lodge

lemeres wrote:
Well, with alchemist discoveries, there are all sorts of sneaky ways to mess up opponents or save yourself from death. I especially love Spontaneous healing and healing touch together because they give you 100 extra hp per day delivered through a fast healing 5 that you can share with party members. I always love that one. Also, you can have other characters use your spells through infusions. Your party will love you.

That sounds useful, but I'm not really looking to play the team healer other than toting around an extra wand of cure light or sharing the occasional infused extract. As an alchemist, I'd just want to set stuff on fire.


Dust Raven wrote:


That sounds useful, but I'm not really looking to play the team healer other than toting around an extra wand of cure light or sharing the occasional infused extract. As an alchemist, I'd just want to set stuff on fire.

Alchemist does that well. I'm fiddling around with a Half-Orc Grenadier now, and I've got him set out to level 4 so far. With Point Blank/Rapid Shot I can deal a possible 4d6 + 16 damage per round (only got 9 bombs total, but whatever) at a decent +6 to hit (2 Dex, 1 Throw Anything,1 Point Blank Shot, 3 BaB unless I missed something) at level 4.

I don't know how good that is in the grand scheme but it's a lot more damage (about half of the Hit, but hey, splash damage) than the Barbarian in my current party who's cruising at around 2d6 + 10 currently I believe.

As a bonus, I don't have to worry about hitting my teammates (without my current char we only really have 2 melee guys) because +5 Int and Precise Bombs as a bonus. Pick up a Longbow or summat and you can even set people ablaze with that just fine (Alchemical Weapon), and no per day limit.


Yeah, you could play team healer....or just keep all the juicy hp for yourself. Remember, using the fast healing is a free action, and if you go below 0 hp and fall unconscious, the healing activates instantly. Nice little insurance policy since everyone wants to take out the ranged attacker, and your build will not be as easily survivable. These discoveries give you about 100 extra hp. Per day. (at level 20)

I only suggest healing touch because it doubles you fast healing hp allotment (still a respectable 50 extra hp at level 20). Although it tends to be more use for tanks like the Mr. Hyde build.

But still, it is like having 10-20 half cure light wounds that can be used freely. Nice bonus.

Silver Crusade

If you're going to be relying on Bombs for your main source of damage, make sure to get Force Bombs as soon as you can; resistances and immunities will kill ya otherwise.


I'm currently playing a feral mutagen switch hitting alchemist through the PFS retirement arc, and I have been enjoying it a lot. I built him to be hard to kill with good survivability, while still doing decent damage. With lingering spirit and heart of the wilderness (alt human racial trait) I don't die until -32 hp (and that increases every 2 lvs). With spontaneous healing I can heal as a free action and automatically stabilize when I go unconscious (as long as I still have uses left) and with healing touch (besides using spontaneous healing more often) I can stabilize an ally if needed (I have actually done this a few times). And mummification gives me 4 immunities (cold and non lethal damage, paralysis and sleep).

Also, I agree with Elamdri, if you plan to use bombs at all, you should get fast bombs and force bombs.

Shadow Lodge

Played through Serpent's Skull as Niero, an alchemist with a dip into rogue (trapfinding and class skills) and Lore Warden (class skills, martial weapon prof's and the bonus feat). This ended up being surprisingly effective, since there's not a lot a melee dude polymorphed to derhii while under the effects of overland flight, delayed consumption'd protection from energy, extended alchemically allocated heroism+barkskin, shield and death ward has to fear. Especially since he picked force bombs and fast bombs as discoveries, enabling him to toss the odd 28d4+12 force damage when hitting things with a magical warhammer just won't do.

That said, while bombs are a renewable and powerful resource, there's a limit to your mayhem. Rapid Shot looks tasty and so does combining it with further awesome (Two-weapon fighting), but there's only so many bombs a day for you to spent. The above comment about thinking like a wizard and tossing crowd control explosives full of poison and madness is a better direction than pure mayhem. I figure plain damage is more the region of a switch-hitting alchemists, like my Niero there. That said, boss encounters are over quickly if the GM does not take your elemental prowess into account.

Wizard vs alchemist is all about campaign control, methinks. In a campaign with very little direct GM control such as organized PFS, alchemists can go wild with their unbridled damage potential and the oft-forgot ability to leave slot open and memorize very quickly and on a case-by-case basis. Wizards on the other hand are kings of versatility, but that versatility requires reconnaissance, time and money and there's a relative lack of these in an organized campaign thanks to timed slots and strict narratives.

Wizards in organized play tend to become one trick ponies, where the trick is often a metamagic'd-to-hell conjuration spell. Control, in essence is about minimizing risks and conjuration is a good way to do that with it's lack of spell resistance and good reliability. That's why there's so many cookie-cutter teleportation experts; those shifts are powerful and make close encounters infinitely more manageable. I guess the same could be said about illusionists and invisibility abilities, but illusion runs quickly into blanket immunities.

Pick what you like, I guess.

Shadow Lodge

Some Random Dood wrote:

I'm currently playing a feral mutagen switch hitting alchemist through the PFS retirement arc, and I have been enjoying it a lot. I built him to be hard to kill with good survivability, while still doing decent damage. With lingering spirit and heart of the wilderness (alt human racial trait) I don't die until -32 hp (and that increases every 2 lvs). With spontaneous healing I can heal as a free action and automatically stabilize when I go unconscious (as long as I still have uses left) and with healing touch (besides using spontaneous healing more often) I can stabilize an ally if needed (I have actually done this a few times). And mummification gives me 4 immunities (cold and non lethal damage, paralysis and sleep).

Also, I agree with Elamdri, if you plan to use bombs at all, you should get fast bombs and force bombs.

Damn I wanted mummification, but there was never enough time. The campaign just asked us to run through the jungle, whack monkies, run errands and explore forgotten sanctums, but to never take a month off!

Spontaneous healing saved my bacon a couple of times, not as often as poison immunity, but often enough. Combines well with the spell ablative barrier, since healing magic heals lethal and nonlethal simultaneously. I guess mummification would skyrocket that spell's effectiveness further, since your immunity to nonlethal effectively gives you dr 5/-. Crazy.


You can never go wrong with a Wizard.


Muser wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:

I'm currently playing a feral mutagen switch hitting alchemist through the PFS retirement arc, and I have been enjoying it a lot. I built him to be hard to kill with good survivability, while still doing decent damage. With lingering spirit and heart of the wilderness (alt human racial trait) I don't die until -32 hp (and that increases every 2 lvs). With spontaneous healing I can heal as a free action and automatically stabilize when I go unconscious (as long as I still have uses left) and with healing touch (besides using spontaneous healing more often) I can stabilize an ally if needed (I have actually done this a few times). And mummification gives me 4 immunities (cold and non lethal damage, paralysis and sleep).

Also, I agree with Elamdri, if you plan to use bombs at all, you should get fast bombs and force bombs.

Damn I wanted mummification, but there was never enough time. The campaign just asked us to run through the jungle, whack monkies, run errands and explore forgotten sanctums, but to never take a month off!

Spontaneous healing saved my bacon a couple of times, not as often as poison immunity, but often enough. Combines well with the spell ablative barrier, since healing magic heals lethal and nonlethal simultaneously. I guess mummification would skyrocket that spell's effectiveness further, since your immunity to nonlethal effectively gives you dr 5/-. Crazy.

Yea, mummification has helped me quite a bit since I got it. One nice thing about PFS is there is an undefined period of time in between adventures so you can freely take something like mummification. Also ablative barrier is probably one of my favorite extracts (another favorite would be alchemical allocation XD), I found out about it literally 1 game before I was going to take mummification. What's even crazier is that since ablative barrier isn't actually DR, it stacks with any other DR you might have (such as stoneskin). I haven't used stoneskin before, but I think I'll go learn it soon.

Also, I can't wait until I can get delayed consumption. I was thinking of using it on something like CCW or CSW for whenever I got low, but the delayed protection from energy sounds really nice as well. I'll have to look into what would be the best to have delayed.

EDIT: Just thought of this, how about a delayed consumption universal formula? An immediate action to gain the effect of any 3rd lv or lower extract that you know. All for only the cost of a 4th lv slot and 100g per use.

Silver Crusade

Here is the thing about bomber alchemists:

At 20th level, your bomb does 10d6 of fire damage.

That's the same amount of damage as a 10th level wizard casting 3rd level fireball. Granted, you get full damage on a successful touch attack, while the wizard's foes get a save, but the point is you're averaging 35 damage an attack, which isn't impressive considering you're only going to have like maybe 30 of these and most enemies you face are going to resist the damage or be flat out immune.

And that's why you get into the following mindset: A bomb is a spell.

Think about it:

A bomb is a VERY LIMITED RANGE fireball spell that has potential secondary effects that ride on it (Nauseated, Staggered, Confused, Entangled, Blinded, Prone, Con Damage, Dispel Magic, Wisdom Damage, Damage over time) that at 8th level, you can "Cast" multiple times a round and you select the rider effects spontaneously.

Oh, what's that? We need to stop the Dragon from using Fly-By attack on us? I got this.

"Hey Mr. Dragon? What's your Touch AC? I'm sorry I didn't hear you? Can you repeat that? Did you say it's a 5?"

"ROOOOOAAAAAAR"

"Ok, no need to get snippy. Look, I'm gonna have to ask you to make 3 Reflex saves, DC 32, or fall flat on your ass, mkay pumpkin?"

"ROOOOAAA..."

*Plummets*

Silver Crusade

Some Random Dood wrote:
Muser wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:

I'm currently playing a feral mutagen switch hitting alchemist through the PFS retirement arc, and I have been enjoying it a lot. I built him to be hard to kill with good survivability, while still doing decent damage. With lingering spirit and heart of the wilderness (alt human racial trait) I don't die until -32 hp (and that increases every 2 lvs). With spontaneous healing I can heal as a free action and automatically stabilize when I go unconscious (as long as I still have uses left) and with healing touch (besides using spontaneous healing more often) I can stabilize an ally if needed (I have actually done this a few times). And mummification gives me 4 immunities (cold and non lethal damage, paralysis and sleep).

Also, I agree with Elamdri, if you plan to use bombs at all, you should get fast bombs and force bombs.

Damn I wanted mummification, but there was never enough time. The campaign just asked us to run through the jungle, whack monkies, run errands and explore forgotten sanctums, but to never take a month off!

Spontaneous healing saved my bacon a couple of times, not as often as poison immunity, but often enough. Combines well with the spell ablative barrier, since healing magic heals lethal and nonlethal simultaneously. I guess mummification would skyrocket that spell's effectiveness further, since your immunity to nonlethal effectively gives you dr 5/-. Crazy.

Yea, mummification has helped me quite a bit since I got it. One nice thing about PFS is there is an undefined period of time in between adventures so you can freely take something like mummification. Also ablative barrier is probably one of my favorite extracts (another favorite would be alchemical allocation XD), I found out about it literally 1 game before I was going to take mummification. What's even crazier is that since ablative barrier isn't actually DR, it stacks with any other DR you might have (such as stoneskin). I haven't used stoneskin before, but...

Alchemical Allocation + Handy Haversack + Accelerated Drinker Trait is SOOOO good.

Yeah, I will gladly spend a full round to spontaneously cast a third level potion.


@ElamdriDepending on your options it deals 10d6 (plus your Int mod and other factors, of course) fire, acid, cold damage, or 10d4 sonic or force damage. Not a bad deal IMO.

Of course, you are correct that there are some rapetastic status effects they can deal (and if I'm not mistaken a bunch of them still deal full Bomb damage, no?), I just wanted to point out that you aren't limited only to Fire Bombs.

Silver Crusade

Rynjin wrote:

^Depending on your options it deals 10d6 (plus your Int mod and other factors, of course) fire, acid, cold damage, or 10d4 sonic or force damage. Not a bad deal IMO.

Of course, you are correct that there are some rapetastic status effects they can deal, I just wanted to point out that you aren't limited only to Fire Bombs.

Correct, although I have found I typically get by with just fire and force.

Usually I am throwing a bomb because A: I desire the status effect or B: I need to deal damage

If it's A: I just chuck a fire bomb and if the enemy isn't resistant/immune, Happy Day, I just snuck in 35 damage on top of the status effect

If it's B: I'll just use force. No screwing around with immunities, just consistent damage and a excellent status effect for my melee peeps.


My personal favorite of the bunch is the Stink Bomb. Bomb damage plus a giant middle finger to anyone who wants to do anything plus 20% concealment = Yes please can I have another?


Elamdri wrote:

Alchemical Allocation + Handy Haversack + Accelerated Drinker Trait is SOOOO good.

Yeah, I will gladly spend a full round to spontaneously cast a third level potion.

I thought that took more than a full round to do, but that's still pretty good.

Alchemical allocation (standard action) + handy haversack (which I assume is to draw the potion as a move action) + accelerated drinker (allows you to drink potion as a move action, right?)

Grand Lodge

As this is for a PFS character, I'm never gonna see level 20. I'll be lucky to see 12.

I'm leaning heavily towards alchemist though. I'm probably gonna drop the saboteur archetype and stick with grenadier, as I don't want to use up a discovery/feat on learning the regular mutatagen ability (in addition to the complex bomb discovery). I do like the ability to stack 2 bomb discoveries on the same bomb (explosive stinking cloud looks nice) but I'm not convinced it's worth it. I'll have my discoveries filling up fast enough squeezing in wings.

Side question: If I use reduce person on myself, my bombs and other splash weapons are not affected, correct? Still d6s (for fire/acid/etc.)?


Dust Raven wrote:
Side question: If I use reduce person on myself, my bombs and other splash weapons are not affected, correct? Still d6s (for fire/acid/etc.)?

Never thought of that before, but I would say you're correct. Reduce person affects melee and projectile weapons only, and bombs are neither of those 2.

Also, it is possible to get a pfs character up to lv 18 right now, by playing the retirement arc then play modules. My alchemist is currently lv 13.


I played a wizard/archer the last campaign i was in. This session I'm playing an alchemist. I had fun playing wizard and liked his versitility. My favorite spells were resist energy and buffs like gravety bow and keen. I generally like playing a caster to be able to pick cool spells that help my attack or prevent damage, also to help out my compatriots. We just started the current campaign, so I'm not sure how it will play out. I like the suggestions in this thread, I might get the ability to hand out my extracts, we'll see.

Silver Crusade

Some Random Dood wrote:
Elamdri wrote:

Alchemical Allocation + Handy Haversack + Accelerated Drinker Trait is SOOOO good.

Yeah, I will gladly spend a full round to spontaneously cast a third level potion.

I thought that took more than a full round to do, but that's still pretty good.

Alchemical allocation (standard action) + handy haversack (which I assume is to draw the potion as a move action) + accelerated drinker (allows you to drink potion as a move action, right?)

Yes, but it means that you can now take a standard action on the round that you "drink" the potion.


Been kicking around a bomber/skill monkey using half-elf genadier/bramble brewer. I really liked the briar bomb, then I saw paragon surge (nothing like having a feat in a bottle).

Rynjin don't you need fast bomb to use rapid shot with bombs.


Epimetheus wrote:

Been kicking around a bomber/skill monkey using half-elf genadier/bramble brewer. I really liked the briar bomb, then I saw paragon surge (nothing like having a feat in a bottle).

Rynjin don't you need fast bomb to use rapid shot with bombs.

Pretty sur eyou don't. Rapid shot just says you get one extra ranged attack per round. Fast Bombs puts that up to 3 per round.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You do. Bombing (Su) is a standard action until you take Fast Bombs, which allows bombs to be thrown like iterative attacks.


Abyssian wrote:

You do. Bombing (Su) is a standard action until you take Fast Bombs, which allows bombs to be thrown like iterative attacks.

It says right on here it allows you to make a full-attack action to make an additional attack with a ranged weapon.

Quote:
When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.

There's nothing ambiguous about that. When you make a full attack with a ranged weapon, make two attacks at a -2 penalty. Shooting a bow normally is a standard action too, last I checked.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Quite true. You can't make a full-attack with bombs until you take Fast Bombs, though.


That's just...silly.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bombs are similar to spells! Throwing more than one per turn has to require some investment. Once you do have Fast Bombs, though, you can TWF & Rapid Shot to your heart's content (even combined).


Yeah, but I have to wait until level 8 to do that.

Grump.

Sczarni

Haha, yeah. I'm currently filling the void with summons a la Preservationist archetype. I'm probably going to pick up Rapid Shot earlier, to maximize Fast Bombs out of the box. It will also give me an extra arrow per round if I feel the need to use mundane weaponry.

Sczarni

What does "GM credit" let you do in terms of character creation? Do you need it to play an alchemist?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lanlis wrote:
Haha, yeah. I'm currently filling the void with summons a la Preservationist archetype. I'm probably going to pick up Rapid Shot earlier, to maximize Fast Bombs out of the box. It will also give me an extra arrow per round if I feel the need to use mundane weaponry.

Yeah, this is true. I took my Grenadier martial proficiency in Longbow and picked up a +2 composite one (I have a 15 Str, why not use it, eh?) so it's not like the Feat is wasted if I can't carpet bomb from the get-go.

Just kind of disappointed my intended build is apparently illegal (at least for a few levels).

But hey, I got Acid and Smoke bombs. Trying to make my Alchemist a pseudo-Thief kinda guy. Like Batman if he liked pilfering things from unaware magic users. Always a gadget for every occasion.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A great way to think about this is do you want to be either:

A) A damage dealer with some buffing options (Alchemist)

or

B) Extremely versatile with potentially very different roles (damage, crowd control, buffing, summoning, etc.) from one day to the next (Wizard)

Another thing someone told me was to think of the Alchemist not as a replacement for a wizard but as a replacement for a rogue. I currently have a 9th lvl bomb based Alchemist and I can tell you that he is NOT a replacement for a wizard. =)

Xykal

Grand Lodge

Silent Saturn wrote:
What does "GM credit" let you do in terms of character creation? Do you need it to play an alchemist?

You can play an alchemist normally in PFS. GM credit is xp credit given to a character belonging to the GM as a reward for running a scenario for other players. If applied to a new character, the character need not be written up until you actually play it.


Sabatour is actually what you take for damage. Combine Immolation Bomb with... anything. At level 4 (Pyro) it lets you deal 3d6+Int Mod per round for 3 rounds. Whatever you hit is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.

Also, don't get Infusion at level 2, trust me. You don't have enough spell slots. Infusion should come in around level 4. If you go control get Smoke and then Stink bomb at levels 2 and 3. If you go damage get Tanglefoot (or an Element), Immolation, and Complex Bombs at levels 2, 3, and 4.

And, man. Paragon is... just fantastic. Absolutely fantastic! Among other things, that gives you any Discovery you qualify for on-command! Know you're fighting Fire Elementals? Learn Frost Bombs.

Shadow Lodge

Rynjin wrote:


But hey, I got Acid and Smoke bombs. Trying to make my Alchemist a pseudo-Thief kinda guy. Like Batman if he liked pilfering things from unaware magic users. Always a gadget for every occasion.

"You... you taffer!"

You know, I never thought of that while playing my alchemist. That's actually a pretty cool comparison.

brb, entering my think-tank to devise a way to have gas arrows...


Muser wrote:
Rynjin wrote:


But hey, I got Acid and Smoke bombs. Trying to make my Alchemist a pseudo-Thief kinda guy. Like Batman if he liked pilfering things from unaware magic users. Always a gadget for every occasion.

"You... you taffer!"

You know, I never thought of that while playing my alchemist. That's actually a pretty cool comparison.

brb, entering my think-tank to devise a way to have gas arrows...

Well if you're a Grenadier, you can put Sneezing Powder on an arrow with Alchemical Weapon, if that counts.

There's also Explosive Missile but I'm not sure if it works with special bombs (The Stink Bomb would be what you want here).

But yeah, Bomb Discoveries can do all kinds of things. I'm going to try and get my Disable Device and Perception up really high, so I can pick locks and disable traps, and then get Dispelling Bomb to get magical traps. A smidge of Stealth, but I want to be good at Spellcraft/Arcana and UMD as well. I have the Int to do it, so why not?

Haven't settled on whether I want to be Half-Orc for more damage, or get that Extra Feat (likely used for Extra Discovery) from Human.

Smoke/Stink bombs for escaping from the area (Stink having an extra crowd control capability, which is nice), Acid Bombs for those things that just get tickled by Fire when I wanna deal damage, probably either Sonic or Force bombs (both?) for hindering pursuers, and Infusion at some point. Thinking if I have enough Discoveries to do so I'd snag Extend/Eternal potion, for permanent elemental resistance and such (does this work in conjunction with Alchemical Allocation BTW? So I can drink it, have it be permanent, but not use it?).

Some neat spells planned out too.

Alchemist I just LOVE the concept of. Wizards have more versatility I've been told (which is probably true, never played one) but when I tried building a Wizard it seemed very sterile, I dunno.

SoulGambit0 wrote:
And, man. Paragon is... just fantastic. Absolutely fantastic! Among other things, that gives you any Discovery you qualify for on-command! Know you're fighting Fire Elementals? Learn Frost Bombs.

I'm guessing you're referring to being a Half-Elf and learning Paragon Surge to take Extra Discovery and get Frost Bombs?

I don't ever really use this term, but that is pretty much the definition of "cheesy" rule-bendy play. XD


Rynjin wrote:

Haven't settled on whether I want to be Half-Orc for more damage, or get that Extra Feat (likely used for Extra Discovery) from Human.

Smoke/Stink bombs for escaping from the area (Stink having an extra crowd control capability, which is nice), Acid Bombs for those things that just get tickled by Fire when I wanna deal damage, probably either Sonic or Force bombs (both?) for hindering pursuers, and Infusion at some point. Thinking if I have enough Discoveries to do so I'd snag Extend/Eternal potion, for permanent elemental resistance and such (does this work in conjunction with Alchemical Allocation BTW? So I can drink it, have it be permanent, but not use it?).

You can't use the human bonus feat for extra discovery, unless your gm lets you to hold the feat until 2nd lv, since that is when you gain your first discovery.

Yes, extend/enhance/eternal potion work with alchemical allocation. None of the abilities say you can't combine them, so I would assume you can.


Some Random Dood wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

Haven't settled on whether I want to be Half-Orc for more damage, or get that Extra Feat (likely used for Extra Discovery) from Human.

Smoke/Stink bombs for escaping from the area (Stink having an extra crowd control capability, which is nice), Acid Bombs for those things that just get tickled by Fire when I wanna deal damage, probably either Sonic or Force bombs (both?) for hindering pursuers, and Infusion at some point. Thinking if I have enough Discoveries to do so I'd snag Extend/Eternal potion, for permanent elemental resistance and such (does this work in conjunction with Alchemical Allocation BTW? So I can drink it, have it be permanent, but not use it?).

You can't use the human bonus feat for extra discovery, unless your gm lets you to hold the feat until 2nd lv, since that is when you gain your first discovery.

Yes, extend/enhance/eternal potion work with alchemical allocation. None of the abilities say you can't combine them, so I would assume you can.

Well it wasn't so much the fact that I'd use the Bonus Feat to take Extra Discovery, it's that I'd use the Bonus Feat to take Point Blank Shot, the regular 1st level Feat for Rapid Shot, and take Extra Discovery at 3rd level instead of taking PBS at level 1 and RS at level 3.

This is currently set up as a back-up character for my current campaign, so I'm assuming he'll come in at level 4 at the least. As my main character gains levels I'll start "leveling" Allen Hildebrand, Alchemist and Thief as well.

On the second one, yeah that makes sense. Just wanted to confirm since sometimes something that "makes sense" doesn't always fit within the rules.

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