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Adding an Armored Kilt to other armors


Rules Questions

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I know this has been discussed many many times already but the confusion I have is where everyone says adding it to heavy armor does nothing. I may be wrong with my two thoughts but here they are:

1. Adding an armored kilt to light makes it act like medium, adding it to medium makes it act like heavy, adding it to heavy has no effect. HOWEVER if you look at it the same way as Mithral(not making it mithral), You can still have mithral light armor and it is still light armor. Therefore, why can't you add it to Heavy armor and still have Heavy armor gaining the +1 AC from it???

2. Regardless the outcome from the first thought, would you be able to wear an armored kilt with ANY armor, enchant them both and have +5 armor enchantment with a +5 armor ability enchantment and then a +1 armored kilt enchantment with a +9 armored kilt ability enchantment????

I understand if this were to work I would be paying for a useless +1 magical enchantment but if you tell any fighter type to burn a small amount of money for that much of a possible advantage, I know they would. I hope this all makes sense to everyone on what I am asking.

Taldor

The key difference between Medium and Heavy armor is leg covering. A breastplate covers the chest, while Full plate covers you...fully.

Adding an armored kilt gives you just one set of armor, not two.


Then why is it listed as its own armor and not an extra like armor spikes or making your shield throwing??

Taldor

Because you can wear just the kilt if you so chose.


By no means am I saying I am right with either thought, but sometimes the wording for things aren't taken the correct way... possibly the words "adding an armored kilt to heavy armor has no effect."

Taldor

You are right that it probably would have been better if they said that you can't add it to heavy armor, but being human beings, the writers can't always predict how others will read what they say. You're not a bad person by any stretch for trying to eke out every mechanical benefit you can (I often do myself), but I'd venture a guess that most people wouldn't read that text the way you did.


So on to part 2???? Thoughts are it "becomes one item to enchant" or does it stay two separate items?

Taldor

It's one set of armor since you can't wear two different armors at once. It's the same as trying to wear two amulets. The armored kilt is just an option to beef up your favorite armor.

I am guessing you're reading from the PRD because, if memory serves, the Adventurer's Armory cleared up any ambiguity.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

They both say the same thing, however yes I am.


These types of questions come up a lot, which isn't a bad thing by any means. It's a shame that there is no official clarification about this, but here's what I've interpreted from it.

1. You can apply an Armored Kilt to a Heavy Armor, however, it grants no benefits. If you apply an Armored Kilt to a Mithral Heavy Armor, it would apply as if it were a Medium Armor (since Mithral armor constitutes its type being one category less severe for all purposes besides Proficiency). It doesn't adjust the proficiency requirements, since there's no category beyond Heavy Armor, and Mithral Heavy Armor functions only as Heavy Armor for proficiency purposes, meaning the Armored Kilt does nothing in terms of proficiency purposes. (And before you even ask, no, an Armored Kilt made of Mithral does nothing for its attachment description.)

2. I would have to say no, not only for balance purposes, but also for sensible purposes. An Armored Kilt can be worn as either an armor in its own right, or it can be a part of another piece of equipment, and a character can only wear one set of armor at a time in RAW mechanics. It's like placing a pretty gemstone in an amulet. Sure, its an object in its own right and it can be worn on its own and grants its own benefits, but it can also be imbedded into a pretty necklace or fancy ring, which is what its a part of, and is merely a sub-section of the item that really grants the power that it generates (which is the Ring itself, the gemstone serving as a limited amplifier/catalyst).


IIRC:

An Armoured Kilt does add a +1 AC even to Full Plate. You take which ever has the worst Max DEX. & Add the Skill Check Penalties, Weight, and Spell Failure %. It doesn't increase the Proficiency Needed.

If both Items are enchanted you take which ever has the Hightest Total Bonus.

Similar to how an Armoured Coat can override a Breastplates magical bonuses.


I understand that an Armored Kilt wouldn't do anything as far as proficiency to Full plate.

My thought was to add it to full plate for the +1 to AC and then enchant it with a bunch of abilities like energy resistances and things like that in turn giving myself MORE enhancement capabilities.


You only take the effects of the one with the highest Total Eenhancement Bonus.

IIRC:
it is if you wear a +6 Full Plate and a +7 Armoured Kilt. You use the +7 But lose all Full Plate Enchantments.

Taldor

Come on guys, we've been through this.

You can't wear full plate and an armored kilt and get separate bonuses because you can't wear two items per slot. You have only one armor slot. If you want to wear a chainmail tutu over your full plate for flavor, cool, but it does nothing.

When you add an armored kilt to a set of armor, you get just one set of armor. You can only enchant the total package, not each part. That would be like saying you could enchant your greaves and gauntlets as part of your set of full plate.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

One thing that was never covered, was Armor Spikes in the equation.

If I add a Armored Kilt with Cold Iron Armor Spikes to a Breastplate with Adamantine Armor Spikes, then what happens?


The only reason why you can enchant the Armoured Kilt is simply for the fact that it can be worn separately.

But either way I look at it. It isn't Core rules so who knows.

@blackbloodtroll: IIRC you can't add spikes to a Armoured Kilt...

They can only be added to metal armour correct.

Taldor

If they are separate pieces of armor, you can only take the benefit of one or the other.

If you have added the kilt to the breastplate, it's just one piece of armor, so you can only have one set of spikes. Remember that the armored kilt is added to the base armor at creation. There is no adding a kilt after you've been wearing the other armor for a few levels.


RtrnofdMax wrote:

If they are separate pieces of armor, you can only take the benefit of one or the other.

If you have added the kilt to the breastplate, it's just one piece of armor, so you can only have one set of spikes. Remember that the armored kilt is added to the base armor at creation. There is no adding a kilt after you've been wearing the other armor for a few levels.

Where did you see that!?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There is no stipulation for the need to add an Armored Kilt at the time of creation.

Taldor

Check the text in the AA, not in the Campaign setting.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Indeed, I have, and the Adventurer's Armory contains no such text with said restrictions.


You do realize that AA is classified as Pathfinder Campaign Setting right. It isn't part of the Pathfinder RPG core rules.

And it makes no restriction on it has to be added at the time of creation. Now I think Armor Spikes have to be added at creation.

An Armoured Kilt is nothing But a Kilt with chainmail/leather backing to Add a little extra protection. Sort of like a better version of Silken Ceremonial Armour.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I am not disputing that Armor Spikes must be added at the time of an Armor's creation.

I am disputing that an Armored Kilt must be added to another armor at the time of creation of that armor, to be added at all.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am not disputing that Armor Spikes must be added at the time of an Armor's creation.

I am disputing that an Armored Kilt must be added to another armor at the time of creation of that armor, to be added at all.

I know. I agree with you.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Just making sure.

Now, with that in mind, how do Armor Spikes work when this combination occurs?


I don't think you can add Armour Spikes to an Armoured Kilt.

Doesn't it have to be a Metal Armour or Medium/Heavy?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You can add Armor Spikes to any armor.


I honestly love the thought of Padded Armour or Silk Ceremonial Armour with Spikes...

Though I would say you can only attack with one or the other per turn.


You have two different sets of spikes for attacking. At least that's how I would rule it.


Make it a TWF grapple?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Would they combine, or be available for separate attacks?

If each set are made of different materials, which apply?

Shadow Lodge

I'd presume they'd be separate attacks.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Would this mean that you could two weapon fight with Armor Spikes?


Different weapons altogether. In a grapple I would let you decide which ones were doing auto damage.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, you don't have to grapple to attack with Armor Spikes.


Hmm, this brings up questions related to the Piecemeal Armour Rules...

Personally I like the concept of having them count separately. It brings in the possibility to TWF with only Armour Spikes.

EDIT: 2 words Spiked Codpiece


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I really can't see them available to Two weapon fight with Armor Spikes only.

Having the option between two different materials seems legit, though each would need to be enchanted separately.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Azaelas Fayth wrote:


EDIT: 2 words Spiked Codpiece

My DM already allowed that in a previous game.

Taldor

Took some sleuthing, but maybe you'll believe Sean K Reynolds:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kybr?Armored-Kilt-Questions#14

You can only use the armor with the higher plus. He doesn't really answer the question about whether you can add a kilt to an existing piece of armor (only that anyone can do it). I think most importantly though he answered the question the OP was truly concerned about.

I am not going to even touch this spikes conversation, though I he does seem to allude to that being ineffective as well.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

He clearly states you can add an Armored Kilt to an existing armor.

Nothing about it only available to be done at the time of the armor's creation.


Personally, I view it as more of an Armor addition that can be added at any time. In mine I made it under the same heading as the Armour Spikes, locked gauntlets and such.

If you are referring the post I think you are. That is what I was saying all along.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
RtrnofdMax wrote:

Took some sleuthing, but maybe you'll believe Sean K Reynolds:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kybr?Armored-Kilt-Questions#14

You can only use the armor with the higher plus. He doesn't really answer the question about whether you can add a kilt to an existing piece of armor (only that anyone can do it). I think most importantly though he answered the question the OP was truly concerned about.

I am not going to even touch this spikes conversation, though I he does seem to allude to that being ineffective as well.

Linked for you.


Yep it was the post I thought it was.


Looking at the post SKR made, it seems as though the Base Price Modifiers applied to an Armored Kilt would not stack (obviously), but any set gold pricing bonuses would be added on top of the main armor you have the kilt for, since it would work independantly.

Seems pretty straight forward, and makes it worthwhile, though this also greatly increases the demand for Mithral Heavy Armor (as if it wasn't in enough demand already).


How does it increase the demand for Mithril Armour?


I think he is going on the assumption that mithral heavy armor becomes medium armor and thus can have its AC boosted by the armored kilt.

Also -- I could see the haramaki plus armored kilt being a very popular combination for sorcerers, wizards, and witches. The combination counts as medium armor (which these classes are not proficient with), but that means that they apply their combined ACPs of 0+0=0 to all skills and their combined ASF chances of 0+0=0% to their spells. What would the down side of this be?


Full Plate still gets the +1 AC Boost from this. The only effect is the Proficiency required isn't changed.

Which is in one reason Why the A. Kilt is superior to Silken Ceremonial Armour by R.A.W.

Taldor

You have a crazy definition of "no effect" then.


RtrnofdMax wrote:
You have a crazy definition of "no effect" then.

The No Effect is only in relation to Proficiency.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Should the Armored Kilt/Armor Spikes thing be brought to a separate thread?

What happens if the two armors are made of different material?

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