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My First DPR Build


Advice

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Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've been playing Pathfinder via PFS for over a year now, and I've tried several types of characters. I've played a maneuver-focused fighter with high AC, I've played an Eldritch Knight, I've played a cleric... But one thing these PCs all have in common is that simply attacking for lots of damage is not in their repertoire. They're all generalists of different sorts, rather than focusing on killing things fast.

I like that, but in the interest of acquiring broader experience, I'd like to also try a PC whose main schtick is DPR.

Now, some caveats:
1. This is PFS, so suggestions need to be PFS-legal.
2. I want DPR to be a primary competency, but not my ONLY competency - I want to always have something to contribute, both in and out of combat. Skills are a plus. I also don't need to break the game with my damage, just need to be good at it.
3. No starting stats higher than 18. That's just how I roll.
4. Nothing that's been absolutely done to death. I'm not interested in playing the millionth greatsword barbarian or dervish magus. Doesn't have to necessarily be fancy or complicated, it just needs to not be one of those builds that's been cloned en masse and sent to every PFS table in the country, you know?
5. I have access to CRB, APG, UM, UC, UE, ARG, ISWG, ISM, BoF, BoA, PFSFG, and SoS. (Cripes, when did I get so many books?)
6. No pets. Personal reasons.

Suggestions? A couple that have come to mind are Inquisitor archer and Musket Master, but I'm curious what other damage builds are out there.

Oh, and I don't need a full build breakdown, just ideas and general guidelines and such. Thanks, all!


Well, this is probably a done to death build in PFS, but my first stab at a character is a human ranger archer style. Gave up companion for granting 1/2 favored enemy bonus vs target to allies, so no pet, either.

Once you're level 4, you get spells, and entangle finally enables you to contribute to control.

Last night, with both gravity bow and aspect of falcon up, using dual shot and deadly aim (now at -2/+4), vs a human (my 2nd favored enemy so +2/+2), +1 composite longbow of strength +2, at point blank range, in my first round of attack, crit confirmed on the first shot and hit on the 2nd, my one round damage total was 47, and that was with poor damage rolls, could have easily been over 50. My base to hit with rapid shot, deadly aim, and point blank is +8/+8, not bad.

And I regularly do 30+ damage in a round. And at 6th level I get to add a 3rd shot to the mix.

Precise shot as well, of course. And weapon focus longbow.

Had to tweak a bit to get Diplomacy up (mainly Ease of Faith trait), but I've got great stealth, perception, survival, solid swim and climb, plus pretty great knowledge nature and geography.

+6 on initiative, not great but not bad, with reactionary trait adding to my base +4.

I'm absolutely lethal vs undead, my first favored enemy (now +4/+4).

Being an archer means some degree of battlefield control, since I can pick my targets much more strategically than melee guys.

And until 8th level arrives and I bump DEX to 19, going for 20 at 12th, nothing is above 18 to start. Currently:

STR 14
DEX 18 (+2 to start)
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 16 (+1 at 4th)
CHA 7

also took infiltrator archetype over favored terrains, my 1st adaptation from undead is iron will, so my saves are pretty good, too, +6 Fort, +9 reflex, +7 Will (with iron will up.)

Lantern Lodge

Pistolero with a double pistol. Not only will you deal great DPR, but this class requires tactics to use correctly and with the threat of misfires every roll will have you on your toes.


Yeah, I was going to suggest a switch-hitter Ranger, but that probably qualifies as done-to-death.

A Zen Archer is pretty awesome at doing damage, and still has some skills and out-of-combat abilities. The one I made was fluffed as a traveling adventurer who sought perfection of mind and body, to become one with his bow, as it were. It was a lot of fun to play.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ach, forgot to mention that my wife has a ranger archer already, so I don't want to go quite that route. But it's too late to edit my post. :P


So are you looking for a melee build, then?

Hmmm... maybe a Barbarian, then? They're pretty damn good at doing lots of damage, and with decent Survival and a handful of other skills, they should still have things to do outside of combat.

Oh! An Inquisitor could be a lot of fun, too. They get lots of skills, are good at melee combat, have nifty fluff and abilities, and get 6 levels of spellcasting on top of all that.

Temerith here is looking like he'll be a lot of fun in the Kingmaker PbP I got him in to!

Cheliax

Half orc Barbarian/Rogue(skulking slayer racial archetype)

You have the high damage and fast movement of a barbarian, combined with sneak attack damage when you flank/charge/cleave. Plus massive skill points from rogue, and half orcs can be pretty fun to roleplay.

Probably start with 1-2 levels of barbarian for hitpoints when you need them the most, then switch over to rogue. The second level of barbarian is questionable, but getting improved uncanny dodge at level 6 is pretty good.

Low HP is the main weakness of this build, so a good con score is needed. Maybe shooting for str 18 con 16 dex 14 after racial. Mental stats are your preference, though low will saves can hurt the build.

Weapon choice is up to you, though I'm partial to the sound a greatclub makes when you hit things with it.


How about a Dervish Dancer(the Bard Archetype not the Magus).I don´t think it´s used as much as it deserves and it can be one of the most well rounded Builds possible with excellent DPR,Skills,AC,Hitpoints and some Magic too.

Cheliax

Victor Zajic wrote:

Half orc Barbarian/Rogue(skulking slayer racial archetype)

You have the high damage and fast movement of a barbarian, combined with sneak attack damage when you flank/charge/cleave. Plus massive skill points from rogue, and half orcs can be pretty fun to roleplay.

Probably start with 1-2 levels of barbarian for hitpoints when you need them the most, then switch over to rogue. The second level of barbarian is questionable, but getting improved uncanny dodge at level 6 is pretty good.

Low HP is the main weakness of this build, so a good con score is needed. Maybe shooting for str 18 con 16 dex 14 after racial. Mental stats are your preference, though low will saves can hurt the build.

Weapon choice is up to you, though I'm partial to the sound a greatclub makes when you hit things with it.

Urban Barbarian + Skulking Slayer/Bandit was a character I had intentions of rolling up, and it sounds like it could be a lot of fun, too.

Cheliax

A Gnome Mounted Fury Barbarian, complete with angry mount that you share your rage with. Small size character, medium sized mount, delicious for dungeon crawling or open-air fighting.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Some people seem to have missed some things that I pointed out NOT wanting to do...

Andoran

Inquisitors are a lot of fun to play. I would consider going that direction.

Which god were you considering?

EDIT: I ask because of the favored enemy and domain. I prefer to start from style then move into substance when building.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

ciretose wrote:

Inquisitors are a lot of fun to play. I would consider going that direction.

Which god were you considering?

Hadn't gotten that far yet. I just know I've heard that they can be killer archers, and I figured the "feel" would be different enough from rangers/fighters/zen monks.

Gotta admit, though, my fancy at the moment is leaning more toward the Musket Master... Maybe Andoren with kind of an American Revolutionary vibe. Though that might be too cliche'.

Sczarni

Want me to help you build a Musket Master or can you take it from here? Thats one class that is REALLY self explanitory.


hmm, yeah, figured about the ranger archer...

have you considered something like an evoker wizard for DPR? not sure how good they are long term, but wanted to break the notion that DPR has to be melee/weapon oriented.

Andoran

You are playing Assassins Creed aren't you :)

The great thing about the inquisitor is the flexibility, particularly once you get bane. If your wife already has an archer, I am wondering why you are going ranged? I ask because there are a number of domains that can enhance melee attacks.

If you aren't looking pure DPR and want to stay ranged, you could also go travel domain for the extra movement and get dimensional hop at 8th level. Very tactically useful.

Either way works, but they have a somewhat limited weapon selection, so the proficiency with the gods favored weapon is a big question, and then what domains that leaves you.

It's very similar to building a cleric that way.


Heres some ideas for for a Dervish Dancer Bard.

Versatile Human ARG(gives +2 to two stats of your choice)
Stats
14STR+2Versatile Human
14DEX
14CON
10WIS
10INT
14CHA+2Versatile Human

Starting Feat Toughness

Put your stat increases into strenght and take Hit Points as Favoured Class Bonus.Then grab a reach Weapon maybe exotic weapon proficiency Fauchard,Power attack,Arcane Strike,Lunge.At level 6 you get Haste as performance.At Level 10 with a Strenght Belt,Heroism all day, and a +2keen Fauchard your Attack routine would look like this:
+19+19+14 for 6,5+2+3+9+6=26.5 average damage with a 15-20 Crit Range.And you can Full Attack everything whitin 20 feet of you.

Not Gamebreaking but good.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

ossian666 wrote:
Want me to help you build a Musket Master or can you take it from here? Thats one class that is REALLY self explanitory.

It's looking fairly simple at a glance, but a run-down of conventional wisdom and common traps/pitfalls would be helpful. :)


Seems to me that you have a done a lot of melee. Try something ranged.

For the pure cheese effect of DPR you could go Urban Barbarian 2 / Weapon Master 10 and plug enemies with arrows. The concept is very strong with DPR and has a serious case of I hit on my last iterative.

I play with someone who combined the inquisitor with the gunslinger. He got a large number of attacks at touch AC and they all had BANE. Not sure of the specifics of the concept but it did very well DPR wise.

You could also go for a ranged Paladin and get your smite on. A whole lot of PFS falls in the smitable range and Paladins can outperform just about anything DPR wise when they smite. Plus you can grab some mercies, be the social guy, etc etc.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

ciretose wrote:
You are playing Assassins Creed aren't you :)

My most modern game system is a Nintendo 64 that I never play. I mostly play SNES, and occasionally bust out the TurboGrafx 16.

So no. Heck, I don't even know what reference you're making about it, I just know I've heard the title before.

@rangerjeff: "Primary caster" is another standard category I'm meaning to get to, eventually. But for this thread, I'm going with weapon attacks. (Though being able to cast spells is not out of the question.)

Andoran

For Melee, Inquisitor of Gorum could start you with a greatsword. Two-handed is the way to go for melee with the lack of feats. Plus you have your choice of Chaos, Destruction, Glory, Strength, and War domains. You could also go half-orc for the Falchion and then pick whatever domain you want, but I personally don't like the downsides socially of playing half-orcs (YMMV)

Dwarves have nice synergy with Con and Wisdom, so that would also work. I once played a Dwarven Inquisitor of Desna (backstory was he spent most of his life underground, but when he saw the night sky for the first time he fell in love. To gruff to be a cleric, he became an inquisitor. Fun little character to play, he had butterfly shaped Axe. But I digress...

TWF builds get bad ass pretty quick without a feat investment. It is a bit annoying to not be able to get power attack until third, but you will be able to deal some damage.

For ranged, you already start off with longbow, so you are good to go with whatever flavor strikes your interest for a God.

As to being useful out of combat, 6 skill per level and Monster lore is awesome. In combat, everyone talks about judgements and bane, but don't forget about cunning initiative.

Great class to play, lots of fun.

Andoran

Jiggy wrote:
ciretose wrote:
You are playing Assassins Creed aren't you :)

My most modern game system is a Nintendo 64 that I never play. I mostly play SNES, and occasionally bust out the TurboGrafx 16.

So no. Heck, I don't even know what reference you're making about it, I just know I've heard the title before.

They just came out with Assassins Creed 3, set in Revolutionary America. So I've been hearing all about musket wielding assassins from my gaming friends lately. :)

Sczarni

Jiggy wrote:
ossian666 wrote:
Want me to help you build a Musket Master or can you take it from here? Thats one class that is REALLY self explanitory.
It's looking fairly simple at a glance, but a run-down of conventional wisdom and common traps/pitfalls would be helpful. :)

High Dex...lots of Dex...pump the Dex.

Put Distance enhancement on the gun and use a double barrel rifle.

Make sure you get Clustered Shots the second you can. Don't forget you get Rapid Reload free with your class. You don't need a ton of Grit. You will get Grit faster than you think and its not something you use a ton of. Focus on that Dex and get it as high as you can because that is obviously your damage booster.

Andoran

Inquisitor of Gorum, Rage Subdomain.

You get Proficiency Greatsword

Destructive Smite (Su): You gain the destructive smite power: the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a morale bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1). You must declare the destructive smite before making the attack. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

At 8th level you get

Rage (Su): At 8th level, you can enter a fearsome rage, like a barbarian, for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. At 12th and 16th level, you can select one rage power. You cannot select any rage power that possesses a level requirement, but otherwise your barbarian level is equal to 1/2 your cleric level. These rounds of rage stack with any rounds of rage you might have from levels of barbarian.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Not interested in greatsword-type stuff. That falls in the "done to death" category, as far as I'm concerned.


How about a wild shaping (petless) druid? Like a cat shaman.


Inquisitors are a lot of fun, and quite versatile, plus their Destruction judgement adds a nice scaling damage bonus.

My thought? What about an inquisitor of Sheyln? Championing love and beauty with a Glaive to the face.

Andoran

Jiggy wrote:
Not interested in greatsword-type stuff. That falls in the "done to death" category, as far as I'm concerned.

If you are going DPR, given the feat limitations you are going Two Handed. And given the limited weapon choices for the class...

Ranged Inquisitor going for pure damage is a fairly narrow path. You need almost all of your feats for the ranged attack chains. Judgements and bane give you your boosts, but particularly for bane you want as many attacks as possible. But that seems like it would just be stepping on the rangers toes, as you are basically filling the same role. It's fun, but you said your wife is already doing that.

Anyway, good luck. Sounds like you are going musket at this point.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Go with an Elf Lore Warden archer. Something like 14/18/12/14/12/7 gets you good attack bonus, damage bonus, 6 skills per level for knowledge goodness, and plenty of feats to crank up the damage on your arrows.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

ciretose wrote:
Anyway, good luck. Sounds like you are going musket at this point.

Yeah, it's just really tickling my fancy for some reason.

I'd also like a little spellcasting for versatility... Should I dip a class or two, or go for UMD?

At least 3 levels of Musket Master are my first priority, for the reloading speed.

Cheliax

Musket master switch-hitter? :D

Gunslinger (musket master) 4/Fighter (weaponmaster) 8

Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7

Gun = Gunslinger, Fig = Fighter

Gun 1 Gunsmithing, Power Attack, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload (musket)
Fig 2 Opening Volley
Fig 3 Rapid Reload (axe musket), Furious Focus
Fig 4 (Weapon Training: axe musket), Str +1
Gun 5 Precise Shot
Gun 6 (We can FINALLY reload as a free action with Rapid Reload and paper cartridges, just in time for +6 BAB)
Gun 7 Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (axe musket)
Fig 8 Weapon Specialization (axe musket), switch Opening Volley for Improved Critical (axe musket), Str +1
Fig 9 Deadly Aim
Fig10 Clustered Shots
Fig11 Improved Precise Shot
Fig12 Greater Weapon Focus (axe musket), Str +1

At low levels you fire your musket then run in with Opening Volley helping out your attack roll. When that's no longer necessary, it's conveniently traded for Improved Critical. All of the fighter feats and weapon trainings are designed to help both your melee and ranged capabilities at the same time. Downsides include poor Will save and less than a happy number of skill points.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Uh... Maybe I'll just be a human MM with 10 INT for 5 skills/level, and pick up Dangerously Curious and a half-decent CHA. Maybe dip Master of Many Styles for Crane Wing in case I end up in melee with a rapier?


Mergy wrote:

Musket master switch-hitter? :D

Gunslinger (musket master) 4/Fighter (weaponmaster) 8

Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 7

Gun = Gunslinger, Fig = Fighter

Gun 1 Gunsmithing, Power Attack, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload (musket)
Fig 2 Opening Volley
Fig 3 Rapid Reload (axe musket), Furious Focus
Fig 4 (Weapon Training: axe musket), Str +1
Gun 5 Precise Shot
Gun 6 (We can FINALLY reload as a free action with Rapid Reload and paper cartridges, just in time for +6 BAB)
Gun 7 Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (axe musket)
Fig 8 Weapon Specialization (axe musket), switch Opening Volley for Improved Critical (axe musket), Str +1
Fig 9 Deadly Aim
Fig10 Clustered Shots
Fig11 Improved Precise Shot
Fig12 Greater Weapon Focus (axe musket), Str +1

At low levels you fire your musket then run in with Opening Volley helping out your attack roll. When that's no longer necessary, it's conveniently traded for Improved Critical. All of the fighter feats and weapon trainings are designed to help both your melee and ranged capabilities at the same time. Downsides include poor Will save and less than a happy number of skill points.

Interesting idea, I personally would go that Musket master 5 /weapon master 7 with

Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 7.

Cheliax

Nicos wrote:

Interesting idea, I personally would go that Musket master 5 /weapon master 7 with

Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 7.

Would also work; you'd trade +1 to hit at melee and range for dexterity to damage at range. Since this build never really has a massive dexterity, I didn't think it was worth it.

Anyway, the timing for the first several levels is very important, but after that it gets a lot easier and you can play around with it more. :)

Andoran

Jiggy wrote:
ciretose wrote:
Anyway, good luck. Sounds like you are going musket at this point.

Yeah, it's just really tickling my fancy for some reason.

I'd also like a little spellcasting for versatility... Should I dip a class or two, or go for UMD?

At least 3 levels of Musket Master are my first priority, for the reloading speed.

There is the Inquisitor Gun Black Inquisition that replaces the domain in UC. Maybe best of both worlds?

Black Powder Inquisition
Deities: Any (with GM approval).

Granted Powers: You gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) and Gunsmithing as bonus feats. When you hit an arcane spellcaster or a creature that uses spell-like abilities with a firearm attack, that creature must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw. If the spellcaster fails, he takes a –4 penalty on concentration checks for 1 round.

Cheliax

If Jiggy is building for PFS, the Black Powder Inquisition is banned.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The only problem with going black powder inquisitor is that you lack quick clear as a deed making nat 1's and 2's bring your shooting to a halt.

EDIT: Apparently, there are more problems than I knew with it.

Andoran

Mergy wrote:
If Jiggy is building for PFS, the Black Powder Inquisition is banned.

Was not aware. My bad.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

So, what goes good in a Musket Master? Do I bother with Precise Shot? Is Rapid Shot too expensive gold-wise (since I have to use cartridges to reload as a free action)? What makes a good dip/multiclass? Inquisitor? Archaeologist? Flowing monk? Sorcerer? Oracle? Ninja? Samurai? Just stay straight gunslinger?

Andoran

rapid shot is very good-- not too expensive, but dont take this until 3rd level as you wont be able to take advantage of it until you get fast musket.
point blank is good and a prereq for other stuff.
precise shot is good too, as is deadly aim. the order you take these is based more on how you see your pluses and minuses to to hit and to damage. keep in mind you are touch ac, so it isnt that hard to hit. I took deadly aim early on because I liked the inconsistency of hitting but with higher damage. I wonder too if being musket master with better range then pistol you will be able to take guys out before they even enter melee...

if you are going to multi-class, at least get to 5th level so you can add dex to damage.

and get a double-barreled musket whenever you have enough fame to afford (usually in 3rd level at some point). it is a -4 to hit, and adds a misfire, but doubles the damage. try to get a +1 on that asap as well, if not when you buy it-- if a non-magic gun explodes you're out the gold, but a magic weapon you can "make whole" for 60gp..

one question I have, is rapid reload and the issue of it being for a gun type (like muskets) or a specific gun (like either musket or double barreled musket). discussion on the boards seem to be that they are for specific guns. though in musket master archetype it mentions you get a bonus feat lvl1 rapid reload (muskets), plural, implying it is for all muskets. this makes sense to me as it is just two musket barrels, but with pfs it seems prudent to be very conservative... does anyone have any thoughts on this? has there been an official ruling?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If you read the general Firearm Rules in UC, under the subheading "Firearm Proficiency", you'll see that it specifies that Rapid Reload (and other weapon-specific feats) must choose an individual type of firearm. As examples, it lists both "musket" and "axe musket" as needing separate feats, so clearly you can't have Rapid Reload for every variation of musket with a single feat.

There's no "official ruling" needed.

Andoran

yeah, so in effect, you dont get the free rapid reload at 1st level if you want to go double musket.

but this isnt all that terrible, or even you could not go double musket.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'm thinking ordinary musket would be fine. Past third level, I could still Rapid Shot with it if I wanted. Although the 1-3 misfire range is scary...

Andoran

yeah, and the double musket would be 1-4, with the possibility of an explosion, which wont happen with a normal musket.

one trick to do, once you have 3rd lvl, and reloading with alchemical shots is a free action, reload your weapon at the beginning of your turn. this way when the combat/encounter is over you can reload with a normal shot/gunpowder, this saves money and also helps with the misfire range on the next shot you make.

Sczarni

If you go the Dangerously Curious route don't forget to pick up a Masterwork tool for it. Last I remember they aren't banned in PFS.

As far as your feats go...Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Clustered Shots, and then pepper in flavor as needed. These are all you need to be successful as a Gunslinger. Don't worry about bullets (even paper cartridges)...from a cost stand point it isn't like you are shooting gold coins or anything. You will easily be a welcomed member of ANY party due to your insane output so getting help in the potion and wand department will help in your bullet department. My advice on misfires? Buy a wand of Make Whole the first chance you get.

(If you want to spend feats on Deeds there are a few you can pick up...I don't use em often enough to rave about em but I am sure someone will chime in)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

How vital is Precise Shot, really? I mean, obviously it's required for archers, but since I'm aiming at Touch AC from 40ft away, how bad would it hurt to skip it? I'm just seeing all these feats and wondering how I can get any sort of reasonable Plan B going. Is it feasible to make a switch-hitter Musket Master?

Sczarni

This is why you need it.

I can't find a reason why you wouldn't want that feat. Not to mention...losing 4 to shots in melee is just silly when it can be negated fairly easily. Why miss any shots if you can avoid it?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ah, I missed that it was a prereq for that. Hrm.

I'm just using so many feats! Is there a way to be a switch-hitter as a Musket Master? Or do I just need to learn how to play a one-trick pony for a change?

Sczarni

The only switch hitter I've made is going the Gun Tank route and using a Blunderbuss or Dragon Pistol up close and personal and then changing to melee weapons.

If you want DPR that isn't the route to go...as a Gunslinger its almost entirely ranged or your DPR takes a hit IMO.

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