Thanks!

Yes, but it does have to be done with the supervision of a GM who can observe the required Spellcraft rolls and sign off on the Chronicle that the spells were acquired and the gold paid.

Helps speed it up if you can just take 10 on the spellcraft roll for scribing and succeed.

DC 20 to figure out an unknown spell, or throw a grey ioun stone into a wayfinder and get 10 minutes of Read Magic per day.

DC 15 + spell level to scribe, cost for scribing is 10 * (spell level squared)

My third level Magus can T10 to scribe up to 4th level spells, even though he can't yet cast 2nd level spells.

Check up the rules on Arcane Magical Writings in the CRB p 218-220.

In short, as long as you have the owner of the spellbook handy, you never need to make a check to decipher the writing if he's helping you. You still need to make the Spellcraft check to understand the spell well enough to copy it, and you must pay the gp for the materials to write it into your spellbook. Provided you have max ranks in Spellcraft and a fair Int, you should be able to take 10 on the Spellcraft roll (Int 16 will give you a min of +7 which is more than enough for 1st level spells, and the roll gets easier as you level).

Yes they can. To speed up the process my spellcasters have a list of all spells known that I pass around the table. I ask that other spellcasters copy down what they like and write down anything that they have that I don't on the list. Then everyone takes 10 on spellcraft, forks over a large sum of gold (I have spent over 5000 gp in one scenario), and goes home happy no matter what happens in the scenario.

Yes they can. To speed up the process my spellcasters have a list of all spells known that I pass around the table. I ask that other spellcasters copy down what they like and write down anything that they have that I don't on the list. Then everyone takes 10 on spellcraft, forks over a large sum of gold (I have spent over 5000 gp in one scenario), and goes home happy no matter what happens in the scenario.

I might start doing this, though currently my only spellcaster with a spellbook is my magus. If I ever get my wizard into play I'll try to keep this in mind though.

Lab_Rat wrote:

Yes they can. To speed up the process my spellcasters have a list of all spells known that I pass around the table. I ask that other spellcasters copy down what they like and write down anything that they have that I don't on the list. Then everyone takes 10 on spellcraft, forks over a large sum of gold (I have spent over 5000 gp in one scenario), and goes home happy no matter what happens in the scenario.

I might start doing this, though currently my only spellcaster with a spellbook is my magus. If I ever get my wizard into play I'll try to keep this in mind though.

Works for the Magus, too.

My third level Magus now has five 2nd level spells in his spellbook, even though he doesn't have any slots to memorize any of them them yet.

And, as someone else pointed out, it can serve as Wizard bait. There was a first level Wizard in the group yesterday, and I am sure he got several spells from my book, and I even got a couple from his...

But I have a document with both my Magus spellbook, and the whole Magus spell list, so I can easily figure out what spells I can add.

Does the player you are trading spells with actually have to play his/her wizard in that session, or can they use any of their characters?
I ask because I've mostly seen rogues, barbarians, ninjas, and gunslingers in my most recent table top sessions. But a number of them have been playing for a while and probably have a wizard collecting dust somewhere.

Yes, you can only trade if they are playing the character.

yes the character with the spell book must be the one playing in that game with your character in order for you character to copy from their spellbook.

Yes they can. To speed up the process my spellcasters have a list of all spells known that I pass around the table. I ask that other spellcasters copy down what they like and write down anything that they have that I don't on the list. Then everyone takes 10 on spellcraft, forks over a large sum of gold (I have spent over 5000 gp in one scenario), and goes home happy no matter what happens in the scenario.

hay, L-Rat, was the 5K in spells the ones you got from my Rogue (one level wizard)? If so, you might want to play with him again - he's got more now! LOL.

Here's a different question: Do you need to have to be a wizard or magus to have a spellbook and fill it with spells? I ask because my Lore Oracle is eventually going to take the Arcane Archivist revelation, which allows me to cast from a spellbook 1/day. I imagine it's also a relevant question for people with the Mnemonic Vestments, which do much the same thing.

I think that you need to be a wizard or magus to record spells into a spellbook.

CRB chapter 9 (Magic) discusses writing spells into a spellbook -- and it constantly refers to "the wizard".

UM chapter 1 (Spellcasters) introduces the Magus -- and it specifically states "At any time, a magus can also add spells found in other spellbooks to his own (see Chapter 9 of the Core Rulebook)."

APG chapter 2 (Classes) introduces the Alchemist -- and it specifically states "An alchemist can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs, pages, and time requirements" but it also notes that a wizard can't copy from a formula book -- it's different.

The Arcane Archivist revelation doesn't say anything about writing spells. In fact, it notes that "the spell is erased when you complete the casting," which means that the oracle actually uses up a spellbook's writings as if it were a scroll.

To reiterate:
a) I don't think an oracle can write into a spellbook, even if they have the Arcane Archivist revelation
b) if you dip into wizard, make sure you have a back-up spellbook since using that revelation erases the spell cast!

Yeah. There's definitely a case to be made there, and I very much see your point. If I didn't, I wouldn't have raised the question in the first place. But I think there's also a case to be made that scribing spells into a spellbook is just an application of the Spellcraft skill which, normally, only wizards, magi, and alchemists have a use for. With the proper training (read: putting ranks in Spellcraft), anyone should be able to scribe spells, though not necessarily cast them.

Side note: yeah, I was planning on buying a Blessed Book and scribing each spell twice. Mostly because I've always wanted one, and it feels like great flavor.

Anyone have any thoughts? I hate making characters based on iffy rules, so I'd really appreciate a ruling.

ok,
IMHO (and I am just a Judge and not even a VO or anything):
You would need to have a level of Wizard to scribing spells to a Wizards spellbook, a level of Alchemist to scribing to a formula book, etc.

Now, that said, can you get someone else to scribe spells to a book you own? This is getting to complex, and needs to much player/GM interaction, something we do not have in OP (mostly players deal with table judges like me).

PRD: "A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook."

Pretty clear that a wizard can do this. Just because it "doesn't say others can't" doesn't make it legal for others to do so.

I like the idea of getting other wizards to scribe for me. If the PFS rules on items and services from other players allow it, that seems like it would work. I definitely play with enough wizards and magi that I could still amass a sizable spellbook.

You have a spellbook, and you want my wizard to write a spell into it? As long as you pay the scribing cost, I'd be willing to do it. If you're paying the scribing cost, I don't know why this would be a problem and if I were GM'ing, I'd allow it. Of course, I don't yet have my 1st star, so I will defer to those wiser and might change that answer once I see follow-up posts.

Im fairly certain the discussion is not talking about Magus in any way shape or form but as to the "Wizard only" comment ... this is from the
PFS FAQ

Magi follow the same rules in copying spells to their spellbooks as wizards in all ways save that they use the magus spell list to determine if they may learn a spell, instead of the sorcerer/wizard spell list

You have a spellbook, and you want my wizard to write a spell into it? As long as you pay the scribing cost, I'd be willing to do it. If you're paying the scribing cost, I don't know why this would be a problem and if I were GM'ing, I'd allow it. Of course, I don't yet have my 1st star, so I will defer to those wiser and might change that answer once I see follow-up posts.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going for. I pay the scribing cost, they do the scribing, and everyone's happy. I might even have a couple spells that they want.

Yes, but it does have to be done with the supervision of a GM who can observe the required Spellcraft rolls and sign off on the Chronicle that the spells were acquired and the gold paid.

You do realize that there is no need for spell craft roll because if you have the author of the other spellbook at hand you automatically pass the check.

The Great Rinaldo! wrote:

Yes, but it does have to be done with the supervision of a GM who can observe the required Spellcraft rolls and sign off on the Chronicle that the spells were acquired and the gold paid.

You do realize that there is no need for spell craft roll because if you have the author of the other spellbook at hand you automatically pass the check.

Actually, Rinaldo is right.

A wizard/magus automatically passes the "decipher an arcane magical writing" spellcraft check since the author is present, but then "must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level).... If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook...." (CRB, Ch 8, pg 219).

Without the author (or a read magic spell), the wizard/magus would have to make two spellcraft checks. With the author, only one is needed. Note, however, that you can take 10 on it, so it's most likely straight-forward.

[edit: formatting]

Oh bleh, but lets take an example of a Wizard with 15 int

1 rank + 2 Int mod + 3 for class skill will give you +6 modifier, that's enough to automatically learn non prohibited spell, and can invest every other level to keep this edge. But chances are the wizard is going have an 18+, have the fellow wizard in question to aid in the check. So the math would be 4(Mod), +2 Aid Other, +1 rank, +3 Class skill -5 prohibited. So by level 2 they can learn any spell regardless if it's prohibited or not. And from level 3 on they only have to invest 1 rank every other level.

Before you say that the allied wizard can fail the check...

18 Int (4) + 2 rank + 3 class skill gives modifier of 9 meaning rolling a 1 on spell craft checks will result in passing the aid other.

Keep in mind to do this at level 1 they can either take some sort bonus (such as trait, feat like skill focus) or the more common 20 int. So effectively I would say it's a non issue.

Aid other.... Valid point!

Oh bleh, but lets take an example of a Wizard with 15 int

1 rank + 2 Int mod + 3 for class skill will give you +6 modifier, that's enough to automatically learn non prohibited spell, and can invest every other level to keep this edge. But chances are the wizard is going have an 18+, have the fellow wizard in question to aid in the check. So the math would be 4(Mod), +2 Aid Other, +1 rank, +3 Class skill -5 prohibited. So by level 2 they can learn any spell regardless if it's prohibited or not. And from level 3 on they only have to invest 1 rank every other level.

Before you say that the allied wizard can fail the check...

18 Int (4) + 2 rank + 3 class skill gives modifier of 9 meaning rolling a 1 on spell craft checks will result in passing the aid other.

Keep in mind to do this at level 1 they can either take some sort bonus (such as trait, feat like skill focus) or the more common 20 int. So effectively I would say it's a non issue.

Where does it say a wizard takes a penalty on the Spellcraft check for scribing an opposition school spell into his spellbook?

I know there's a +2 if it's in your specialty -- don't recall a penalty if it's in opposition for writing it into your book. Penalties I know of are taking 2 slots to cast and -4 to skill checks when crafting....

Suzaku wrote:

Oh bleh, but lets take an example of a Wizard with 15 int

1 rank + 2 Int mod + 3 for class skill will give you +6 modifier, that's enough to automatically learn non prohibited spell, and can invest every other level to keep this edge. But chances are the wizard is going have an 18+, have the fellow wizard in question to aid in the check. So the math would be 4(Mod), +2 Aid Other, +1 rank, +3 Class skill -5 prohibited. So by level 2 they can learn any spell regardless if it's prohibited or not. And from level 3 on they only have to invest 1 rank every other level.

Before you say that the allied wizard can fail the check...

18 Int (4) + 2 rank + 3 class skill gives modifier of 9 meaning rolling a 1 on spell craft checks will result in passing the aid other.

Keep in mind to do this at level 1 they can either take some sort bonus (such as trait, feat like skill focus) or the more common 20 int. So effectively I would say it's a non issue.

Where does it say a wizard takes a penalty on the Spellcraft check for scribing an opposition school spell into his spellbook?

I was looking at here under special here

If you are a specialist wizard, you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify, learn, and prepare spells from your chosen school. Similarly, you take a –5 penalty on similar checks made concerning spells from your opposition schools.

If you are a specialist wizard, you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify, learn, and prepare spells from your chosen school. Similarly, you take a –5 penalty on similar checks made concerning spells from your opposition schools.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

sesharan, Raw PFS: No, I do not believe you scan write a spell into your spell book (without levels in an arcane class, much like possessing a holy symbol doesn't let you turn undead, unless you are a cleric equivalent.

Also I do not believe it would be PFS legal for one character to scribe into a spell book for another. IF so you could have people craft any item for you. PFS proscribes what things characters can do.

Now, in game you probably could hire an NPC to read a PC's spell book and scribe that for you.. that would possibly be legal.