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Half-Undead / Half-Construct race


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

This was inspired in part by an earlier thread, though I've been kicking around the idea for a while. Lots of sources of inspiration for something like this from steampunk to the Borg. Essentially it is an entire race that has lived in relative isolation amidst and beneath the ancient ruins of a once proud and powerful empire, keeping their decaying bodies alive through necromancy and artifice.

With a 16 RP cost, the Epok (or Apok, I haven't decided yet) classify as a middle of the road advanced race, detailed below:

Half-Construct (7 RP)
Ressurection Vulnerability, (-1 RP)
+2 save vs. disease, mind-effects, poison and effects causing fatigue or exhaustion.
Cannot be raised or ressurected - in fact, a raise dead spell cast on one will destroy it (Will save to resist).
Does not eat, breathe or sleep.

Half-Undead (5 RP)
Darkvision 60'
+2 save vs. diease and mind-effects.
Harmed by positive energy, healed by negative energy.

Attributes:
Weakness (-1 RP)
+2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -4 Charisma
The Epok's half-undead, half-construct bodies are near tireless and their intelligence spans centuries, but their view of the world and those within it has become almost alien to other races over time.

Other features include:

Piecemeal Body - through artifice, part of the creature's body has been replaced with metal plates to protect gears and joints as well as other vulnerable areas. Members of the race gain the following benefits:
Natural Armor (2 RP), Improved Natural Armor (1 RP) - Epok gain a +2 Natural Armor bonus.
Natural Weapon (1 RP) - Epok gain an artificial Bite, Claw, Gore or Slam natural attack dealing 1d4 damage.

Dark Magic
Due to their affinity to Necromancy, spells of the Necromatic school or subtype are cast at +1 DC (2 RP).


just out of curiosity which type is the dominant one?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
+5 Toaster wrote:
just out of curiosity which type is the dominant one?

I'm not sure what you mean... they are essentially undead bodies, protected, preserved and augmented by constuct parts. Their mind is the mind they possessed even in life, much as a lich's might be.


Wiggz wrote:
+5 Toaster wrote:
just out of curiosity which type is the dominant one?
I'm not sure what you mean... they are essentially undead bodies, protected, preserved and augmented by constuct parts. Their mind is the mind they possessed even in life, much as a lich's might be.

What he means is, are these undead that became half-construct or are they constructs that became half-undead. Which were they initially? Or did you intend them to be complete Frankenstein beings having been pieced together with both cadaver and construct parts and then reanimated?


I think the Frankenstein thing sounds coolest.

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

Cyborg-zombies. Nice.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dot


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Shadowborn wrote:
Cyborg-zombies. Nice.

Even though I've never played one, I thought they might make (among other things) a pretty solid Magus... any sort of Gish, really. Lore Wardens, Nercomancers and Transmuters too.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Berselius can't type right now. His mind has been BROKEN at the mere THOUGHT of something being HALF-UNDEAD and HALF-CONSTRUCT. LOL.


Suddenly, I can't help but think of Robocop.


Why stop at undead constructs?

Half-Dragon/Half-Constructs!

Reptiliods!


Half-Elf Half-Undead, Half-Construct. Take pieces of one (or more) dead Half-Elf, put them together into a body along with various Construct components, then re-animate the dead tissue. Counts as Human, Elf, Undead, and Construct.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Shadowborn wrote:
Cyborg-zombies. Nice.

Self-aware cyborg zombies...


I actually thought flesh golems when I saw this at first. But Cyborg Frankenstein sounds like a lot of fun! :D

Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I love this...


My question is this, can something have both types? its kinda like being Humanoid and aberration, while i haven't found a precedent in pathfinder, 3.5 had was basically the type pyramid. On this pyramid certain types circumvented others, thereby determining how that race would advance with racial hit dice, although all i can remember was outsider and undead circumventing all others. The reason i ask this question is in response to my previous question, which type was dominant, and i was curious on clarification on which type this counted as for favored enemy and such. if your intention was to count it as both you should still have a listed main type with a line in special abilities stating it also counts as the other type. I personally would love to present a member of this race as antagonist in my freakshow campaign, and am curious as to the author's stance on this.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

*yoink* ;)

Liberty's Edge

+5 Toaster wrote:
My question is this, can something have both types? its kinda like being Humanoid and aberration, while i haven't found a precedent in pathfinder, 3.5 had was basically the type pyramid. On this pyramid certain types circumvented others, thereby determining how that race would advance with racial hit dice, although all i can remember was outsider and undead circumventing all others. The reason i ask this question is in response to my previous question, which type was dominant, and i was curious on clarification on which type this counted as for favored enemy and such. if your intention was to count it as both you should still have a listed main type with a line in special abilities stating it also counts as the other type. I personally would love to present a member of this race as antagonist in my freakshow campaign, and am curious as to the author's stance on this.

There is precedent in Pathfinder for counting a creature as being two types equally. See this alternate racial trait for Aasimar:

d20pfsrd wrote:
Scion of Humanity Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.

I would say that the OP's creature would count equally as both Undead and Construct. This leaves an interesting question should you want to advance it via racial HD, but since it is intelligent you should probably be giving it class levels just like you would one of the core humanoid races. If it really became an issue I would hinge it on whether or not they are healed by negative energy. If they are: Undead. If they are not: Construct.

Black Fang wrote:
*yoink* ;)

I second that sentiment.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Black Fang wrote:
*yoink* ;)

Okay, that one went right over my head...

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

Wiggz wrote:
Black Fang wrote:
*yoink* ;)
Okay, that one went right over my head...

That's shorthand for "I'm stealing your idea."


StabbittyDoom wrote:
+5 Toaster wrote:
My question is this, can something have both types? its kinda like being Humanoid and aberration, while i haven't found a precedent in pathfinder, 3.5 had was basically the type pyramid. On this pyramid certain types circumvented others, thereby determining how that race would advance with racial hit dice, although all i can remember was outsider and undead circumventing all others. The reason i ask this question is in response to my previous question, which type was dominant, and i was curious on clarification on which type this counted as for favored enemy and such. if your intention was to count it as both you should still have a listed main type with a line in special abilities stating it also counts as the other type. I personally would love to present a member of this race as antagonist in my freakshow campaign, and am curious as to the author's stance on this.

There is precedent in Pathfinder for counting a creature as being two types equally. See this alternate racial trait for Aasimar:

d20pfsrd wrote:
Scion of Humanity Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.

Scion of humanity doesn't actually give both types to the Aasimar, it simply adds the clause of them being treated as human for effects, which was my point about listing it under special abilities. If i wanted to use this as a bad guy but wanted to give just a slight boost in effectiveness (one not necessarily worth a +1 to CR) i would normally just add a racial hitdice and corresponding proficiencies and such. not too mention if i ever wanted to build a racial class off this guy, i would follow the racial progression of the type listed first. By the way i should note i assume half-undead and construct to progress same the same as the full versions, have advanced them as such in my games for usefull BBEGs.


+5 Toaster wrote:
Scion of humanity doesn't actually give both types to the Aasimar, it simply adds the clause of them being treated as human for effects, which was my point about listing it under special abilities. If i wanted to use this as a bad guy but wanted to give just a slight boost in effectiveness (one not necessarily worth a +1 to CR) i would normally just add a racial hitdice and corresponding proficiencies and such. not too mention if i ever wanted to build a racial class off this guy, i would follow the racial progression of the

Except that is precisely what it does. There is no racial ability that counts you as two races without actually giving you both races. Look at the example breakdowns of Half-Elf and Half-Orc in the ARG and tell me where you find Elf-Blood or Orc-Blood listed among their abilities. Having the racial type and subtype is prerequisite for qualifying for all the things those things qualify for.

Moreover, Half-Undead and Half-Construct must be added to a base racial type. So say you took a base half-elf (Humanoid (elf, human)) and added both special types. The result would be Humanoid (elf, human), Undead, and Construct and count as Elf, Human, Undead, and Construct for any effects regarding race. And note that "effects" isn't limited to magical buffs/debuffs as some people erroneously believe. It counts for qualifying for feats, racial traits, magical effects, racial archetypes, everything.


Quote:


Except that is precisely what it does. There is no racial ability that counts you as two races without actually giving you both races. Look at the example breakdowns of Half-Elf and Half-Orc in the ARG and tell me where you find Elf-Blood or Orc-Blood listed among their abilities. Having the racial type and subtype is prerequisite for qualifying for all the things those things qualify for.

Moreover, Half-Undead and Half-Construct must be added to a base racial type. So say you took a base half-elf (Humanoid (elf, human)) and added both special types. The result would be Humanoid (elf, human), Undead, and Construct and count as Elf, Human, Undead, and Construct for any effects regarding race. And note that "effects" isn't limited to magical buffs/debuffs as some people erroneously believe. It counts for qualifying for feats, racial traits, magical effects, racial archetypes, everything.

first

bestiary wrote:

Creature Types

Each creature has one type, which broadly defines its
abilities. Some creatures also have one or more subtypes,
as described on pages 310–314. A creature cannot violate
the rules of its subtype without a special ability or quality
to explain the difference—templates can often change a
creature’s type drastically.

point mine, you cannot have two types on one creature.

second

ARG wrote:
An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids.

so A. it most definitely is a racial trait that does it and B. the words "count as" do not equate to "gains the", that's why it goes to the trouble of stating the parts about feat prereqs and spells. If it just gained the humanoid type, that language wouldn't be necessary.

Third
The half-construct and half-undead are types not sub-types. A half-elf's type is humanoid with the subtypes elf and human. If that half-elf is raised as a zombie, it's types changes to undead, no humanoid type, no elf or human subtypes. look at all the half-templates for example. In all their listings it states that the type changes to a new type IE dragon, outsider, what have you. Also having a sub-type doesn't automatically qualify you for everything related to that race. A half-orc doesn't automatically qualify for the Scarred witch doctor for example. i believe that was answered in the ask james jacobs thread.

finally
now if you ask me if they should be base types i would say no. this would be on account of the fact that in both cases, they are still inherently the creature they were before. That's why i posted an idea on these boards, that instead makes them just expensive racial traits.


prd wrote:
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.

Source

prd wrote:
Humanoid (elf, human) 0 RP

Source

Toaster, you are absolutely, unequivocally incorrect in your presumption that "counts as" is different from "is" in this case. There are many examples of "counts as" used throughout several books, starting with the CRB. Racial Type and Subtype are the only things that qualify you for "effects related to race". Now I will concede the point that, on re-reading, Half-Undead and Half-Construct are actually considered Subtypes rather than Types so the Half-Elf in question would be Humanoid(Elf, Human, Half-Undead, Half-Construct). But a Scion of Humanity Aasimar does, indeed, possess both Outsider and Humanoid types just as any class ability that "turns you into an Outsider, but you retain your Humanoid type" does (if they didn't, then displacing the Humanoid type would disqualify you from any traits, feats, racial archetypes, etc. with a humanoid race subtype as a prereq). Finally, JJ's answer regarding Half-Orcs not qualifying for Scarred Witch Doctor is just as wrong as was his view that it's perfectly within the rules to use Vital Strike in a Full-Attack action. He's not a rules guy and it's been pretty consistently demonstrated that his understanding of the rules are more personal preference rather than objectivity. It wasn't a clarification on something ambiguous, it was a clear contradiction of RAW.

Silver Crusade

Wiggz, would these undead cyborgs have individual personalities, a shared intelligence (local/virtual memory interface server?) or a combination of the two - an individual who can access a shared information interface?


Kazaan wrote:
prd wrote:
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.

Source

prd wrote:
Humanoid (elf, human) 0 RP

Source

Toaster, you are absolutely, unequivocally incorrect in your presumption that "counts as" is different from "is" in this case. There are many examples of "counts as" used throughout several books, starting with the CRB. Racial Type and Subtype are the only things that qualify you for "effects related to race". Now I will concede the point that, on re-reading, Half-Undead and Half-Construct are actually considered Subtypes rather than Types so the Half-Elf in question would be Humanoid(Elf, Human, Half-Undead, Half-Construct). But a Scion of Humanity Aasimar does, indeed, possess both Outsider and Humanoid types just as any class ability that "turns you into an Outsider, but you retain your Humanoid type" does (if they didn't, then displacing the Humanoid type would disqualify you from any traits, feats, racial archetypes, etc. with a humanoid race subtype as a prereq). Finally, JJ's answer regarding Half-Orcs not qualifying for Scarred Witch Doctor is just as wrong as was his view that it's perfectly within the rules to use Vital Strike in a Full-Attack action. He's not a rules guy and it's been pretty consistently demonstrated that his understanding of the rules are more personal preference rather than objectivity. It wasn't a clarification on something ambiguous, it was a clear contradiction of RAW.

and what class gives you both?

not monk
Core rulebook wrote:

Perfect Self: At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. He is forevermore treated as an outsider rather

than as a humanoid which i am going to bring up in a thread as a monk issue.
Ill admit I misread the halves as types instead of subtypes, however if subtypes worked that way by RAW the then the why does the half-drow paragon feat even exist so yea i was wrong in my original assumption regarding those two sub-types does not mean i am wrong about the rules regarding types in general. i am not even going to comment on the stuff regarding JJ.


For art, you might want to look at the "rathi" creatures of magic the gathering.
link Might be possible to get ones hands on some higher-quality pics if searching around. As long as you aren't going to publish it publicly there shouldn't be much copyright issues.


Btw i don't believe i said this, but regardless of the disagreement, i think you did make a pretty sweet race wiggz. just wanted to say. i kinda spitballing some feat ideas around for you


so thought of some feats, let me know what you think.

Spoiler:
Some Assembly Required
Risking life and limb doesn't hold the same meaning to you
Prerequisites
Epok
Benefit
If one of your limbs is severed you may take a full round action to reattach it.
Special
this ability does not allow you to reattach your head after a decapitation.

Spoiler:
Perfect Functions
Whether due to undeath, machinery, or the unholy combination of both, even losing your head won't stop you.
Prerequisites
Epok, character level 10th, Some Assembly Required feat
Benefit
You no longer die immediately from decapitation, instead you may survive for a number of rounds equal to your constitution modifier without it. You also may use your Some Assembly Required feat to reattach your head. Finally you ignore the effects of the vorpal weapon enchantment.

Spoiler:
Detachment
Removing your limbs is second nature
Prerequisites
Epok, character level 5th, Some Assembly Required feat
Benefit
You may detach one of your limbs as a move action. You suffer no damage from doing this.

Silver Crusade

omg toaster, with feats like these it'd be the creepiest random encounter ever.

It made me think of one more.

Spoiler:
Modular Allen Key
You and your fellow Epoki are particularly close...
Prerequisites
Epok, character level 12th, Some Assembly Required feat, Detachment feat, Perfect Functions feat
Benefit
You exchange detached parts with any other Epok also possesing this feat as a move action. The parts do not have to be the same.

edit: fixed spoiler XD


Ah! I see. Well, glad to be the source of such direct inspiration. >;)

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p4pz?Can-you-make-a-HalfConstructHalfUndead-ra ce#1


Booksy wrote:

omg toaster, with feats like these it'd be the creepiest random encounter ever.

It made me think of one more.

** spoiler omitted **

edit: fixed spoiler XD

nice, hah just thought of Thing from the Addams Family.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Booksy wrote:
Wiggz, would these undead cyborgs have individual personalities, a shared intelligence (local/virtual memory interface server?) or a combination of the two - an individual who can access a shared information interface?

In our homebrew world they are individuals, remnants of a race long past and rarely even interact with one another anymore... incidently I've been expanding on the Void Mage as sort of their defining class. I've re-created the Void spell list and added some flavor to it. Its really turning out to be a great not quite evil race.

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