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Marionette Possession + unintelligent, commanded undead as target


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Marionette Possession + unintelligent, commanded undead as the target.

Discuss please. I have specific thoughts, but curious as to others.


Well spell says you share body with the host soul, do undead have a soul to share with ?

If they have no soul then , would that not mean they have no space for a soul ?

I mean if this is possible then by the same token using this spell on a mindless construct would let you slip in your soul and fight as a construct.

taken further, could you then inhabit any animated object with this spell ?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter 2014

jreyst wrote:

Marionette Possession + unintelligent, commanded undead as the target.

Discuss please. I have specific thoughts, but curious as to others.

Prerequisites for this spell to work: creature has to be willing, and you need a focus component which is a piece of paper with the target's name

Since Commanded undead will literally slice their own heads off if you ask them to, I see no reason why they wouldn't be considered "willing" as long as you said "I want you to let me cast a spell on you."

The second requirement might be a little tough, since some undead probably don't even have names anymore, but theoretically you could just ask the undead creature "what's your name?" and if it has one, it would tell you since it's under your control.

Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

Phasics wrote:

Well spell says you share body with the host soul, do undead have a soul to share with ?

If they have no soul then , would that not mean they have no space for a soul ?

I mean if this is possible then by the same token using this spell on a mindless construct would let you slip in your soul and fight as a construct.

taken further, could you then inhabit any animated object with this spell ?

Just because a creature currently does not possess a soul, doesn't mean it can't be inhabited by one.

Also, technically if this wouldn't work, the spell would call for a willing create with a soul in the target line or else state as such in the description. So, it appears RAW, but as always any particular DM can try to divine RAI or simple decide the do or don't want spells to work however they would like.

Btw, a construct is immune to necromancy effects.


I'm quite positive that using Marionette Possession on undead under your control is exactly what is intended by this spell.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is the "short description/summary" of the spell, on page 201 of Ultimate Magic:

"Marionette Possession: As magic jar, but limited to line of sight."

Which suggests (or rather, clearly states) that this spell is intended to work "as magic jar" except as otherwise indicated.

Magic jar says, "Undead creatures are powered by negative energy. Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls."

"Sentient" is not an actual game mechanic, but I don't think it unreasonable to associate sentience with NON-mindless undead.


I don't think mindless undead can be "willing" to do anything. They just mechanically follow whatever commands you give them. But the spell doesn't have "Mind-effecting" or anything, so I guess it still works


jreyst wrote:

Marionette Possession + unintelligent, commanded undead as the target.

Discuss please. I have specific thoughts, but curious as to others.

Would you allow someone to magic jar a mindless construct? No?

Mindless undead, doesn't seem to be any better in this regard.

-James


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Phasics wrote:

Well spell says you share body with the host soul, do [n]undead have a soul[/b] to share with ?

If they have no soul then , would that not mean they have no space for a soul ?

I mean if this is possible then by the same token using this spell on a mindless construct would let you slip in your soul and fight as a construct.

taken further, could you then inhabit any animated object with this spell ?

Reminds me of this when the wizard turn the cleric into an undead with a soul with a botched spell casting. Undead don't have souls and thus I would rule that the spell would fail.

Sorry, but the rules for Retrocasting don't exist in Pathfinder.

If you want to control undead cast Control Undead.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For anyone interested, Sean K. Reynolds indicated in the Pathfinder RPG FB group that Marionette Possession is intended to work "as magic jar" when asked about its interaction with mindless undead.

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