Assassin's Creed (II, Brotherhood, Revolations) Style Rogue / Assassin


Conversions


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I've had the idea for a while to build a Rogue/Assassin styled after the character from the Assassin's Creed games (Ezio specifically). In order to meet my standards of matching the source material, the character would HAVE to be able to do the following:

  • Good Jump/Climbing skills
  • Throw knives as a primary ranged attack
  • possess a hidden blade as his primary melee attack
  • be able to kill on a surprise attack with said hidden blade
  • Not be a complete pushover in non-surprise round combat

And it would be really cool if he could do the following too:

  • Parry incoming attacks
  • Counter attack an opponent after parrying an attack

Thoughts, input and ideas on the subject would be greatly appreciated as efficient character building is not really one of my strong suits.

Grand Lodge

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Inquisitor.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Inquisitor.

I'm not very familiar with the Inquisitor class. Care to elaborate?

Grand Lodge

There is a PRD on the left side of the screen... find the class there.

Me? Ranger/Rogue I think is what you want - favoured enemy Human.


I would go with ranger/ninjas. He had a high charisma and it would allow for smoke bombs as well as vanishing into crowds.


Tommy2k wrote:
  • be able to kill on a surprise attack with said hidden blade
  • I don't think you'll be able to get that untill Level 20 Rogue. I'm not sure about the Assassin as I don't use it much, As far as counterattacking goes, I don't think there's anything to accomodate you. You should look at the Combat Manuever feats. There's Dodge and Mobility and also Combat Expertise, and that's just peering at the CRB. What a lot of GMs do when it comes to AC is they just say "Enemy 1 misses you." You could actually be dodging the attacks, or they could be glancing off your armor. Daggers have a range of 10ft. It you REALLY want to, run up the PBS tree.

    EDIT: Look for a Wrist sheath. I forgot what book it's in...


    Luna_Silvertear wrote:
    Tommy2k wrote:
  • be able to kill on a surprise attack with said hidden blade
  • I don't think you'll be able to get that untill Level 20 Rogue. I'm not sure about the Assassin as I don't use it much, As far as counterattacking goes, I don't think there's anything to accomodate you. You should look at the Combat Manuever feats. There's Dodge and Mobility and also Combat Expertise, and that's just peering at the CRB. What a lot of GMs do when it comes to AC is they just say "Enemy 1 misses you." You could actually be dodging the attacks, or they could be glancing off your armor. Daggers have a range of 10ft. It you REALLY want to, run up the PBS tree.

    EDIT: Look for a Wrist sheath. I forgot what book it's in...

    adventurer's armory has the wrist sheath and spring-loaded wrist sheath.

    class-wise i'd say ranger/ninja (maybe with a dash of assassin thrown in if you can afford it), or inquisitor/ninja.

    Silver Crusade

    The duelist PrC in the CRB has Parry at 2nd level and Riposte at 5th.


    You could ask ur gm if cranewing/riposte could be used with said hidden blade as well..
    For the surprise ur dead the death attack ability already covers that..
    But i would go knife master and take the underhanded trick and max out sleight of hand.. hidden blade from knifemaster boost this as well..
    As far as climb/jump/acrobatics there are a few tricks that increase these as well.. Ledgewalker comes to mind for this guy, Expert Leaper is another must have for this guy, Nimble Climber should be looked at as well.. I belive with all 3 ud have the perfect roof climb/runner..
    Offensive defense is one that would help in none surprise combats..

    Additionally Ninja could play this roll as well and qual for assassin too..

    Instead of Knife master you could go Roof Runner.. Although i wouldnt do that with this build..


    Ninja + Crane Style gives you everything you're looking for. You don't even need to multiclass, although two or three levels in Master of Many Styles Monk will help a lot with your feats (third level with the right Archetype would let you use Wis for Ki). Ninja grants you great acrobatics, sneak attack, stealth, and at level 10 they get an instant-death ability.

    What level are you starting at?

    Dark Archive

    Dotting so keep this going guys =D

    Silver Crusade

    KrythePhreak wrote:
    Dotting so keep this going guys =D

    What does 'dotting' mean, exactly?

    I'm fairly new here, with no other on-line experience.

    Does it mean that, by posting on the thread, there is a dot next to the title of that thread? If so, what does that do that, say, (52 new) doesn't?

    Or is my guess way out?


    Dotting means simply posting in a thread so as to gain a subscription to the thread. Its easier to see responses on your favorites.

    Silver Crusade

    Nepherti wrote:
    Dotting means simply posting in a thread so as to gain a subscription to the thread. Its easier to see responses on your favorites.

    Er...what? 'Subscription to a thread'? 'Responses on my favourites'?


    Dotting=subscribing
    Favorite=interesting to you
    Thread=what we are posting on. Forums have threads, threads have posts.

    661 post so far and little online experience? Are you joshing me? Lol. No offense meant.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    not sure if you can combo these two archtypes but -

    Fighter: Lorewarden 1
    Rogue Knifemaster /Scout the rest.

    Use Kurki and TWF.

    Lots of attacks, D8 for SA, can SA on charge or move, crit on 18+ (15+ with improved0.


    Matt2VK wrote:

    not sure if you can combo these two archtypes but -

    Fighter: Lorewarden 1
    Rogue Knifemaster /Scout the rest.

    Use Kurki and TWF.

    Lots of attacks, D8 for SA, can SA on charge or move, crit on 18+ (15+ with improved0.

    you can.


    Is that spring blade thing in the ultimate equipment book too?


    Ishpumalibu wrote:
    Is that spring blade thing in the ultimate equipment book too?

    the spring loaded wrist sheathe is inside the adventurers armory companion. buy a dagger and attach it to the sheath, and now you have your hidden blade.

    Silver Crusade

    Nepherti wrote:

    Dotting=subscribing

    Favorite=interesting to you
    Thread=what we are posting on. Forums have threads, threads have posts.

    661 post so far and little online experience? Are you joshing me? Lol. No offense meant.

    I appreciate your help. : )

    My 661 posts have been made in the last couple of months. This is the only forum I've ever posted in. I've had to work some stuff out for myself, just by reading posts. When I came upon the word 'trolling' I had to look it up on Wikipedia and when I used it myself I learned some etiquette the hard way!

    I know what 'thread' and 'forum' mean. Does 'subscribing' have any meaning in this context beyond simply posting in a thread and 'dotting' it?

    I can press the 'plus' sign on someone's post and make it a favourite, and I can go to my own page and see my favourites and which of my posts have been favourites by others (which feels great, BTW!), but I don't understand why dotting would make seeing responses on my favourites easier. Surely, to favourite a post you must've read it, and if you've read it then you must have read the thread, so the forum will tell you when new posts appear by saying 7 new or something. How does that make it easier to see responses to my favourites?

    Am I missing something?


    I think I confused you accidentally, sorry.
    Well, there's a difference between favorite threads and favorite posts. Favorite posts are where the plus sign comes in.

    Favorite threads..they don't really have a list, but some forums (not sure about paizo, couldn't find it) have a feature the will send you an email each time someone posts in a thread you have posted in.
    plus, if you see the dots, it's easier to find them on the main page.

    Silver Crusade

    Nepherti wrote:

    I think I confused you accidentally, sorry.

    Well, there's a difference between favorite threads and favorite posts. Favorite posts are where the plus sign comes in.

    Favorite threads..they don't really have a list, but some forums (not sure about paizo, couldn't find it) have a feature the will send you an email each time someone posts in a thread you have posted in.
    plus, if you see the dots, it's easier to find them on the main page.

    When it comes to computers/interweb I'm easily confused. : /

    Thanks for your help!

    Did you manage to get your head around having an evil character in your party? If so, how did you go about it?


    Gonna pm you, we are getting off topic.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Returning to the topic...

    I've thought about this myself. Different methods have their merits. Ninja fits the bill quite nicely, though it leaves a little combat ability to be hoped for. Inquisitor is interesting for the "faith" component, like the way the Assassins dedicate themselves to the Brotherhood and the Creed. Ranger's favored enemy could be helpful.

    To meet your criteria:

    Tommy2k wrote:


    Good Jump/Climbing skills
    Throw knives as a primary ranged attack
    possess a hidden blade as his primary melee attack
    be able to kill on a surprise attack with said hidden blade
    Not be a complete pushover in non-surprise round combat

    And it would be really cool if he could do the following too:

    Parry incoming attacks
    Counter attack an opponent after parrying an attack

    --Acrobatics and Climb, simple as that. Load 'em up. Rogues and ninjas could both get very nice increases to these via talents/tricks.

    --Throwing knives just comes down to doing that, as well. PBS and weapon focus (dagger) could help with that, I suppose, but I'd focus more on melee, because Ezio also employed a crossbow, and he mainly used range weapons for sneak attacks or when he had to.
    --The only generally PF-legal way to do this that I know of is the spring-loaded wrist sheath with a dagger attached. HOWEVER, there's a beautiful 3rd-party option for this if you're willing to take it a slightly different route: the soulknife. Basically, harnessing simple psionic energy to create weapons from thin air. Very nice, and, at higher levels, can actually create any number and type of weapons this way; you could have an entire arsenal at the tip of your fingers, while wearing no weapons. Very assassin-esque.
    --Sneak attack ups your damage on this, which is important, but the only sure route is death attacks. Assassin PrC, ninja ability, or rogue capstone.
    --This is going to come down to proper use of feats. It might be tricky, but you should be able to pull it off, especially if grabbing ranger or soulknife, as they are d10 HD full BAB classes.
    --Parrying could involve the duelist ability or its kin, but honestly, it's most likely just fighting defensively or using total defense.
    --Ready to attack after the enemy attacks you. This means you're not attacking that round, but then, that's usually how it works in the games, too.

    This character was a bit of an homage to the newest canon Assassin, Connor Kenway. He's far from completely lethal with his shots, even on a surprise, but I think he came pretty close for a 4th-level character, if I say so myself.

    Finally, I tried starting up an AC-based PbP on these forums a while back. It died before making it off the ground, both due to me overloading myself and players losing interest. If I try again, can I count you in? :)


    Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
    The duelist PrC in the CRB has Parry at 2nd level and Riposte at 5th.

    I really like this for those spacific abilities, they mesh very well with the concept.

    SoulGambit0 wrote:
    Ninja + Crane Style gives you everything you're looking for.

    You mean the Crane Style Combat feats from UC?

    SoulGambit0 wrote:
    What level are you starting at?

    This build isn't for a spacific game, but generally games I run/play in start at 3rd level.

    Matt2VK wrote:
    Lots of attacks, D8 for SA, can SA on charge or move, crit on 18+ (15+ with improved0.

    That sounds pretty nasty. As a DM I would hope this isn't right out of the gate.

    Shuriken Nekogami wrote:
    Ishpumalibu wrote:
    Is that spring blade thing in the ultimate equipment book too?
    the spring loaded wrist sheathe is inside the adventurers armory companion. buy a dagger and attach it to the sheath, and now you have your hidden blade.

    I'll have to look into this item. I have a hidden blade statted for use in my homebrew setting but it was statted during the Ezio era... now that Conner can use his as a standard knife this might work better.

    Loup Blanc wrote:
    Finally, I tried starting up an AC-based PbP on these forums a while back. It died before making it off the ground, both due to me overloading myself and players losing interest. If I try again, can I count you in? :)

    Definitly color me interested!


    Tommy2k wrote:


    Matt2VK wrote:
    Lots of attacks, D8 for SA, can SA on charge or move, crit on 18+ (15+ with improved0.

    That sounds pretty nasty. As a DM I would hope this isn't right out of the gate.

    This is a bare bones summery -

    Knifemaster: When using a dagger (or dagger like weapon) SA damage deals D8.

    Scout: Whenever you charge or move at least 10' you can deal SA damage with 1 attack.


    Keep in mind the Scout ability that lets you charge for SA starts at 4th level, and the move 10' is gained at 8th (they replace uncanny dodge and its improvement). Still very nasty, especially for someone who can really get the most out of their sneak attack damage die like a knifemaster.

    However, if you're looking at getting a good feel of Connor now, I don't know if knifemaster is what you really want. Knifemaster=extra SA damage with knives and the like and d4 on everything else, whereas the vanilla sneak attack gives you +d6 with everything. Better reflects the ability to "assassinate" with every weapon.

    If homebrewing's an option, here's what I did to settle the whole assassination thing: I ruled that, outside of combat, any target you strike who wasn't aware of you counts as getting hit with a Coup de Grace, so save or die. At later levels you start being able to do things like air assassinations; when you start out, you have to really catch them off guard in order to get the instant kill.

    Honestly, IMO, that's how CdG should work anyway.

    Sczarni

    Flowing Monk/ Scout Ninja for sure. You'll only need 4 or 5 monk levels. Wall climber Ninja trick gives you a 20ft climb speed. Crane style feats will give you parry and riposte for much cheaper than duelist PrC and is more effective. Reposition is great for flavor and is useful so be sure to pick up improved trip. Unbalacing counter meshes well with SA so you'll need combat reflexes aswell. You might consider monastic legacy at higher levels if you want to give your unarmed attacks a little more umph. Assassinate at level ten is a must for you.


    Texio excellent idea lets take it a step further and power monkey this lol.

    Human for the extra feat, monk classmod "master of many styles" allows you to take all three crane wing feats by 2nd lvl.

    After that rogue with rogue talents focus on dirty fighting, trips, disarms, sniper, etc, and the like. The feat poison use an absolute must.

    With the skill points make sure you constantly max out stealth, perception, climb, jump.

    It is close but we are talking a video game vs. table top it should have some of the feel of AC.


    I, personally, like the rogue/inquisitor route....that's what i am...and u cover all your basics for any senerio, especially if u don't forget UMD...


    Dot. I love connor much better than playing Ezio. I feel heshould have some ranger lvls


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Not read all of the thread so not sure if this has been said...

    Ninja with the Scout Archetype: Assassinate Master Trick, you are able to move up to the enemy will studying them, use a Wrist Sheath or Spring-Loaded Wrist Sheath, & Gank the enemy.

    Skills: Acrobatics*, Climb*, Swim, Perception*, Stealth*, Bluff*, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Survival*.

    *: Key Skills

    I would then go Ranger.

    So Ninja(Scout)10/Ranger10.

    This is based mostly on ACIII as that is the one I got pulled into do to the Setting.


    I'm probably a little late on this one but I'd like to pitch in my 2 cents.

    First off - Knife Master Rogue archetype in Ultimate Combat. You could always look into Crane Style chain in Ultimate Combat - That lets you fight defensively for a miniscule accuracy penalty and allows you to auto-deflect once/round as long as you don't fight with two weapons or wield a shield (Making Duelist an attractive Prestiege class). The end of the chain even lets you attack them back after parrying. You could always take Assassinate Master Ninja trick as well to be able to force a save or die in the surprise round. Couple that with the rogue talent Underhanded (max Sneak attack damage) and even if they save they're hurting. You'll want to look into a Wrist Sheath for equipment and/or Quickdraw, or Possibly Hidden Blade Ninja Trick to utilize Underhanded effectively. Although in my experience Underhanded gets a lot more use from Rogues with good Bluff/Diplomacy who can deceive the enemy into thinking they are an ally rather than just striking from the shadows. I took Sudden Disguise and Master Disguise and used both Underhanded and Assassinate to *Great* effect.


    .tod .tod .tod


    Mythic human ninja with the trickster path:

    Traits Hidden Hand, Power of Suggestion

    Feats Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Disarm, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Spring Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Dagger)

    Mythic Feats Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Dual Path (Champion), Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse

    Ninja Tricks Acrobatic Master, Assassinate, Deft Palm, Hidden Weapons, High Jumper, Finesse Rogue, Offensive Defense, Underhanded, Wall Climber, Weapon Training

    Trickster Attack Deadly Throw

    Champion's Strike Fleet Charge

    Path Abilities Aerial Assault, Bloody Streak, Climbing Master, Deadly Dodge, Impeccable Balance, Incredible Parry, No One of Consequence, Precision Critical, Redirect Attention, Wall Run


    On second thought, I'd replace "Deft Palm" with "Combat Trick" so that I could grab Improved Critical (Dagger) as a bonus feat (with "Hidden Weapons" and Quick Draw, the character can, I think, draw hidden weapons as a free action, so there's no need to hide a weapon in plain sight; also, Power of Suggestion allows the character to do so already, to some extent). Then, I'd swap out Mythic Spring Attack for Mythic Improved Critical (Dagger).

    The only thing that you can't get as a ninja, which would be in keeping with the Assassin's Creed games, is an ability equivalent to the assassin prestige class ability "Quiet Death". Perhaps, DM permitting, it could be made into an advanced ninja trick (requiring "Assassinate" as a prerequisite). Could take the (+1/6 rogue talent) favored class bonus six times to afford adding it to the build, in that case, since rogue talents are equivalent to ninja tricks.


    You could go for cloak of displacement or perma-blur some other way, letting the miss chance substitute for or enhance your crane riposte, and go moonlight stalker line for free feints once a round. Either full rogue/ninja, MoMS 2 dip for crane (and possibly snake too to add some of the cool hand to hand combos), and/or ranger dip for FE human.
    +1 to underhanded and/or assassinate tricks for the easy low profile kills.


    SGG's Shadow Assassin seems to be inspired by the AC franchise, so you could always start there. If you play AEG's Swashbuckling Adventures, you can mix levels of Assassin, Spy and Fighter together to get a pretty thematic match.

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