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Monk with a reach weapon


Advice

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Quandary wrote:
elgabalawi wrote:
i totally hadn't thought of "single weapon flurry" being an issue since i'd be jumping through hoops to get the two handed reach weapon flurriable, but is that an issue?

well, flurry states the extra attack works like 2wf, so...

it's not really unviable to use a pole-arm though, with lunge, your UAS will over-lap the pole-arm range by 5',
and you of course can 5' step (and can make your attacks in any order AFAIK, so all pole-arm then all UAS for example - combined with lunge, your UAS and polearm now 'overlap' by 10')
but i think you really should consider how it would work if you couldn't flurry with polearm at all...
that doesn't mean that the polearm is not a crucial part of your fighting style.
for one, whenever you move, you can't flurry: attack with pole-arm.
you're attacking with more reach, so the enemy will likely provoke vs. the polearm if they move to attack you:: AoO with pole-arm.
the polearm's larger reach is drawing more AoOs from enemies across the board, especially with combat reflexes.
realize that all the AoOs are at full BAB, and they will contribute a disproportionate amount of your hits.
even flurrying with only UAS, the polearm can easily account for more than 50% of your attacks that hit.
of course, you can arrange to flurry with the pole-arm as well, and lunge is good for 'overlapping' UAS/polearm reach.
being able to use any god's favored weapon as a monk weapon (with feat) is pretty convenient.

re: sohei giving up stuff you might want, i would consider looking at qi gong archetype,
and seeing what else that sohei retains from vanilla monk that you really don't care about,
and use qi gong to swap that out to gain a abundant step/ dimension door type ability... why not?

assuming one of the things you are suggesting is flurrying with unarmed when folks are up close and using the polearm for reach on AoO or when i have to move, besides just stylistically really wanting to focus on the polearm, i worry about the cost of making both types of attacks viable at higher levels. and can i really unarmed flurry while holding a two handed weapon?

Also - is there a feat that allows any character type to become proficient with the favored weapon of the god they state that they follow? i thought i was stuck going cleric to do that.


ok... i think my point was that regardless of how you want to 'focus' on the polearm, how often you flurry is a function of how often you full attack... PCs as well as NPCs should be fighting to minimize their enemies full attacks as often as possible, perhaps less so at low levels when most characters' full attacks don't have more attacks than their standards. but not full attacking all the time is not really an indicator of your 'focus' with a weapon, as much as what the situation allowed... no NPC at low levels will regard you as 'un-focused' on polearms just because you aren't making flurry full attacks with it, because fighters with weapon focus in it are not usually making full attacks with it either.

if you don't plan on emphasizing UAS at high levels, a +1 Amulet of Might Fist seems like it would suffice, letting you bypass DR/magic and not really costing that much. If you want to mix it up more, or just have some unique niche abilities like Ghost Touch on your UAS (but not actually be very high in +Enhancement) then that seems good too. or just don't get your UAS enhanced, that isn't 'necessary' to have at low levels before your polearm flurry comes 'online' at 6th or whenever it happens. i was just explaining ways of not needing to flurry with the polearm because it's definitely workable and if that's how you fight until you can flurry with the polearm, it's not that bad. the game is based on slowly sequentially gaining more special abilities, you simply cant expect to depend on doing something that is special or unique (i.e. uses several feats/class abilities) directly from level 1, that's not how the game works, that's how the game rewards higher level characters. if that's so important to you, you need to start play from higher level.

i don't think any GM would have a problem with you flurrying with UAS while holding a polearm in 2 hands, any more than flurrying with UAS while holding a dead cat in 2 hands, or having your hands open, or having your arms chopped off.

yeah, i meant going with cleric, maybe some other class combos that get Channel Energy would work, but the Cleric Archetype that gets Weapon Focus for free seems like the best bet, especially considering Wisdom synergy with Monk.


How about this? Pure monk with a Meteor Hammer.
Level Relevant class features,bonus feats,character feats:

m1 flurry of blows,combat reflexes,quick draw,human(your choice)
Stunning fist, unarmed strike
m2 improved grapple
m3 fast movement,Maneuver training,exotic weapon proficiency
m6 improved trip,Ki throw
m9 (your choice)
m10 imp bull rush
m12 imp Ki throw
You can throw oponents within reach with a meteor hammer at any other opponent you threaten. Sweet. 2nd opponent gets bull rushed. 1st opponent falls prone. Doesn't work with Kyoketsu, but you get a free +1 shield bonus when using Fortress mode with Meteor Hammer. Damage is also doubled. downside no flurry. But I think Fortress mode is better. I would say quick draw for Attack of opportunity or single attacks on the move so you can position yourself to affect both opponents. And you can choose to drag the tripped opponent 5 ft.closer to you. so you can follow up with a FoB or stunning attack on your turn.


elgabalawi wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
elgabalawi wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:

They're both Monk weapons. You can flurry with both normally. Try it and if you like it pick up deadly aim (for rope dart) or power attack (for Kyoketsu Shoge).

In case your wondering, I do my stats by order of importance like this:

+Str > Wis > Dex > Con > Int > -Cha.
I treat my monks more like martial characters, so STR comes first. I dump CHA & INT in favor of STR. All my ability point increases go to STR as well. this helps attack rolls & damage and I don't need weapon finesse so I can take Exotic weapon prof. at 1st lvl instead. Then comes power attack. STAY SINGLE CLASS MONK.
that's the same stat priority i was envisioning. but part of my problem is that first level is when we get extra feats to use (assuming human), but so many combat feats require a +1 BAB. And unless i misread or misunderstood, that's true for exotic weapon prof. as well weapon focus, power attack, pushing assault, and furious assault. argh.

+1 for exotic weapon, damn. Looks like you gonna dip Fighter with unarmed figher archtype free exotic weapon proficiency and free style feat at level 1. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fig hter-archetypes/unarmed-fighter

Maybe character feats power attack,weapon focus for you human feat if human, maybe some of the other feats you want. then go monk all the way. Maybe better. If you don't wanna dip, use the Kama for the +2 to trip until you can get the Exotic Weapon prof.


I found a feat for you. fury's fall. Take it at lvl 9 or sooner if you cant wait. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/fury-s-fall-combat


how can meteor hammer utilize ki throw? ki throw only works with UAS trip attacks.

fyi, there is was a 3.5 cleric archetype that gives up 1 domain to gain full BAB. could be your thing.
it was in the 3.5 version of the campaign setting i believe.


Quandary wrote:

how can meteor hammer utilize ki throw? ki throw only works with UAS trip attacks.

fyi, there is was a 3.5 cleric archetype that gives up 1 domain to gain full BAB. could be your thing.
it was in the 3.5 version of the campaign setting i believe.

"oh damn." back to the drawing board. Take lunge instead. Maybe step up & strike. More throws is more fun. He'll still be prone next to you so you can still Flurry. unless you throw him at somebody, in which case you can still 5 ft step to do it.

Lantern Lodge

You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?


Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?

not much time for commenting tonight, but i don't think meteor hammer is a monk weapon, so i'm not sure how i could flurry with it. is there something i'm missing?


Quandary wrote:

ok... i think my point was that regardless of how you want to 'focus' on the polearm, how often you flurry is a function of how often you full attack... PCs as well as NPCs should be fighting to minimize their enemies full attacks as often as possible, perhaps less so at low levels when most characters' full attacks don't have more attacks than their standards. but not full attacking all the time is not really an indicator of your 'focus' with a weapon, as much as what the situation allowed... no NPC at low levels will regard you as 'un-focused' on polearms just because you aren't making flurry full attacks with it, because fighters with weapon focus in it are not usually making full attacks with it either.

if you don't plan on emphasizing UAS at high levels, a +1 Amulet of Might Fist seems like it would suffice, letting you bypass DR/magic and not really costing that much. If you want to mix it up more, or just have some unique niche abilities like Ghost Touch on your UAS (but not actually be very high in +Enhancement) then that seems good too. or just don't get your UAS enhanced, that isn't 'necessary' to have at low levels before your polearm flurry comes 'online' at 6th or whenever it happens. i was just explaining ways of not needing to flurry with the polearm because it's definitely workable and if that's how you fight until you can flurry with the polearm, it's not that bad. the game is based on slowly sequentially gaining more special abilities, you simply cant expect to depend on doing something that is special or unique (i.e. uses several feats/class abilities) directly from level 1, that's not how the game works, that's how the game rewards higher level characters. if that's so important to you, you need to start play from higher level.

i don't think any GM would have a problem with you flurrying with UAS while holding a polearm in 2 hands, any more than flurrying with UAS while holding a dead cat in 2 hands, or having your hands open, or having your arms chopped off.

yeah, i meant...

fair enough. and i wasn't so much meaning to imply that i Have to be flurrying so much as i envision this character as primarily attacking with his polearm (simply because that's how i want to picture him in my head) and i wasn't sure how viable that was without the better attacks afforded to the flurry mechanic. and i too like the wisdom synergy between monk and cleric.


Quandary wrote:

how can meteor hammer utilize ki throw? ki throw only works with UAS trip attacks.

fyi, there is was a 3.5 cleric archetype that gives up 1 domain to gain full BAB. could be your thing.
it was in the 3.5 version of the campaign setting i believe.

argh, i don't think we're using any 3.5 stuff, but that might have solved my problems.

Lantern Lodge

elgabalawi wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
not much time for commenting tonight, but i don't think meteor hammer is a monk weapon, so i'm not sure how i could flurry with it. is there something i'm missing?

The meteor hammer is from the ultimate combat book (2handed eastern weapon), not 3.5, and if I recall correctly they were going with master of many styles so the flurry is sacrificed anyways. But it retains the monk flavor, has reach and can be used to do a variety of things. It also has good damage at 1d8, has the trip special property and you can drag as a free action if you trip with it.


and it isn't a monk weapon. not every weapon with 'eastern' flavor is.
if he's going for non-monk weapons, he probably is wanting one with decent-good base damage, and decent-good crit stats.

Lantern Lodge

All the monk tag means is you can flurry with it as a master of many styles he is giving up flurry - so who cares? And since when is 1d8 plus special enhancers (including ac) not "good?" Really?! lol I swear.


Lex Talinis wrote:
elgabalawi wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
not much time for commenting tonight, but i don't think meteor hammer is a monk weapon, so i'm not sure how i could flurry with it. is there something i'm missing?

The meteor hammer is from the ultimate combat book (2handed eastern weapon), not 3.5, and if I recall correctly they were going with master of many styles so the flurry is sacrificed anyways. But it retains the monk flavor, has reach and can be used to do a variety of things. It also has good damage at 1d8, has the trip special property and you can drag as a free action if you trip with it.

my bad, with all the different options being thrown around, i sometimes lose track of which thoughts go with which builds.


Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?

it's also a double weapon which means you need 2 wpn fighting. Flurry of blows is better than 2 wpn fighting. More versatile. when you flurry monks have full BAB like a fighter because they add their levels to the attack roll.


Lex Talinis wrote:
All the monk tag means is you can flurry with it as a master of many styles he is giving up flurry - so who cares? And since when is 1d8 plus special enhancers (including ac) not "good?" Really?! lol I swear.

Amen. All I was sayin was for single attacks on the move use the meteor hammer to trip him and drag him towards you. He's prone so he can't hit back on his turn. and he provokes attacks of opportunity. This sets him up for your flurry of blows. Single attack Meteor hammer. Full attack flurry of blows.


weapons I like:
1)Kyoketsu shoge because of the 20 ft. reach and flurryable.
2)The Meteor hammer has 10 ft reach, trips does d8 damage drags enemies and gives you AC bonus. No flurry.

If you insist on single attacks with big 2 handed polearms take martial weapon prof. for Nodachi (crits better) and take all the Vital strikes and devastating blow feats you can to pump up the damage on single strikes and improve the critting. Make it keen so you don't have to take the improved critical feat. take critical focus instead (monks don't have many feats to spare). Use your reach to threaten and fight while keeping your distance. Deny them their full attacks. Power attack every chance you get. Power attack>imp bull rush(free for monks). If they get close bull rush, YOU DON'T MOVE AWAY. You force them to move. you have maneuver training bonus. Use it.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
it's also a double weapon which means you need 2 wpn fighting. Flurry of blows is better than 2 wpn fighting. More versatile. when you flurry monks have full BAB like a fighter because they add their levels to the attack roll.

2 weapon fighting means you use 3/4 BAB and take -2.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Alejandro Acosta wrote:

weapons I like:

1)Kyoketsu shoge because of the 20 ft. reach and flurryable.
2)The Meteor hammer has 10 ft reach, trips does d8 damage drags enemies and gives you AC bonus. No flurry.

If you insist on single attacks with big 2 handed polearms take martial weapon prof. for Nodachi (crits better) and take Vital strike>imp vital strike and devastating strike to pump up the damage on single strikes and improve the critting.Take Improved critical (free for monks) and critical focus. Use your reach to threaten and fight while keeping your distance. Deny them their full attacks. Power attack every chance you get. Power attack>imp bull rush(free for monks). If they get close bull rush, YOU DON'T MOVE AWAY. You force them to move. you have maneuver training bonus. Use it.

Forgot monks get improved critical free. take both. forget about keen


Here goes.
Level Relevant class features,bonus feats,character feats:
m1:combat reflexes(bonus), martial weapon(Nodachi), human(your choice)
m2:dodge(bonus)
m3:fast movement,Maneuver training,power attack
m6:imp bull rush(bonus), weapon focus
m9:vital strike
m10:improved critical(bonus)
m12:critical focus
m14:spring attack(bonus)
m15:imp vital strike
m18:devastating strike

free spring attack. stay mobile.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:

Here goes.

Level Relevant class features,bonus feats,character feats:
m1:combat reflexes(bonus), martial weapon(Nodachi), human(your choice)
m2:dodge(bonus)
m3:fast movement,Maneuver training,power attack
m6:imp bull rush(bonus), weapon focus
m9:vital strike
m10:improved critical(bonus)
m12:critical focus
m14:spring attack(bonus)
m15:imp vital strike
m18:devastating strike

free spring attack. stay mobile.

You seem to have your feat progression from 3.5 in pathfinder its 1,3,5,7,9 ect. for feats not 1,3,6,9,12


thanks


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bertious wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:

Here goes.

Level Relevant class features,bonus feats,character feats:
m1:combat reflexes(bonus), martial weapon(Nodachi), human(your choice)
m2:dodge(bonus)
m3:fast movement,Maneuver training,power attack
m5:pushing assault
m6:imp bull rush(bonus)
m7: weapon focus
m9:vital strike
m10:improved critical(bonus)
m11:greater bull rush
m13:critical focus
m14:spring attack(bonus)
m15:imp vital strike
m17:(your choice)
m19:devastating strike

free spring attack. stay mobile.

You seem to have your feat progression from 3.5 in pathfinder its 1,3,5,7,9 ect. for feats not 1,3,6,9,12

thanks for the correction. here's the corrected build. Monk w/ reach weapon


elgabalawi wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
not much time for commenting tonight, but i don't think meteor hammer is a monk weapon, so i'm not sure how i could flurry with it. is there something i'm missing?

no, you can't. I was saying use it for single reach attack to drag them to you. then flurry w/UAS any tripped victims on your next turn once your on top of them. they're prone so they can't hit back or move w/o taking Attacks of opportunity. plus they take penalties.


Alejandro Acosta wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
it's also a double weapon which means you need 2 wpn fighting. Flurry of blows is better than 2 wpn fighting. More versatile. when you flurry monks have full BAB like a fighter because they add their levels to the attack roll.
Flurry of blows means you have full BAB and take -1; 2 weapon fighting means you use 3/4 BAB and take -2 Flurry is better.


Lex Talinis wrote:
All the monk tag means is you can flurry with it as a master of many styles he is giving up flurry - so who cares? And since when is 1d8 plus special enhancers (including ac) not "good?" Really?! lol I swear.

I missed when the OP stated that he is giving up flurry.

I did seem to notice a bunch of posts from him where he is concerned exactly which weapons he can use with flurry.
Somebody posted a maneuver master suggestion at one point, but I don't think the OP ever 'picked that up'.
Your post I was originally responding to said:
Lex Talanis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?

Which is flat out wrong, unless there's a Deity of meteor hammers, which you failed to mention when I first brought it up.


Quandary wrote:
Lex Talanis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
Which is flat out wrong, unless there's a Deity of meteor hammers, which you failed to mention when I first brought it up.

Unless he's talking about Flurry of Maneuvers... in which case it's fine.


Lex Talinis wrote:
elgabalawi wrote:
Lex Talinis wrote:
You can flurry with a meteor hammer - it is a reach weapon - given this much thought?
not much time for commenting tonight, but i don't think meteor hammer is a monk weapon, so i'm not sure how i could flurry with it. is there something i'm missing?
The meteor hammer is from the ultimate combat book (2handed eastern weapon), not 3.5, and if I recall correctly they were going with master of many styles so the flurry is sacrificed anyways...

The very first comment to LT's post was from the OP concerned about how he could Flurry with it.

LT responded by bringing up MoMS which doesn't have Flurry since "they" "were going with" MoMS.
That OP was still concerned about Flurry suggests that HE wasn't "going with" MoMS,
and I haven't seen anything suggesting that he was "going with" Maneuver Master, either (which LT wasn't addressing, he's only discussing MoMS).

I'm sorry, I'm just seeing LT basically ignoring the specifically stated concerns of the OP,
to go off on some tangent no longer relevant to the OP's case/ the original thread.
Certainly, it's great to mention MoMS and Maneuver Master as options, but if the OP doesn't say 'yes, that's what I want to do', then it's nonsense to continue as if those are now the build being discussed.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alejandro Acosta wrote:

weapons I like:

1)Kyoketsu shoge because of the 20 ft. reach and flurryable.
2)The Meteor hammer has 10 ft reach, trips does d8 damage drags enemies and gives you AC bonus. No flurry.

If you insist on single attacks with big 2 handed polearms take martial weapon prof. for Nodachi (crits better) and take all the Vital strikes and devastating blow feats you can to pump up the damage on single strikes and improve the critting. Make it keen so you don't have to take the improved critical feat. take critical focus instead (monks don't have many feats to spare). Use your reach to threaten and fight while keeping your distance. Deny them their full attacks. Power attack every chance you get. Power attack>imp bull rush(free for monks). If they get close bull rush, YOU DON'T MOVE AWAY. You force them to move. you have maneuver training bonus. Use it.

But Nodachi isn't a polearm, it's a sword and does not have reach.


+1
Kyoketsu Shoge also doesn't have 20 ft REACH, it has 20 ft RANGE INCREMENT,
i.e. when it's THROWN like a Dagger, but then it's no longer in your hand.
(I'm not sure if it's intended for the blade part to be detached when it is thrown)

It also functions as a normal Reach weapon, i.e. 10' Reach for a Medium character.

Quote:

The blade can be used as an off-hand melee weapon or thrown like a dagger,

while the rope and circlet can be whipped around and swung at opponents as a bludgeoning reach weapon.

The Reach is just normal Reach...

The weapon is basically a double weapon with 1 end being throwable (20' range increment).


elgabalawi wrote:
Quandary wrote:

ok... i think my point was that regardless of how you want to 'focus' on the polearm, how often you flurry is a function of how often you full attack... PCs as well as NPCs should be fighting to minimize their enemies full attacks as often as possible, perhaps less so at low levels when most characters' full attacks don't have more attacks than their standards. but not full attacking all the time is not really an indicator of your 'focus' with a weapon, as much as what the situation allowed... no NPC at low levels will regard you as 'un-focused' on polearms just because you aren't making flurry full attacks with it, because fighters with weapon focus in it are not usually making full attacks with it either.

if you don't plan on emphasizing UAS at high levels, a +1 Amulet of Might Fist seems like it would suffice, letting you bypass DR/magic and not really costing that much. If you want to mix it up more, or just have some unique niche abilities like Ghost Touch on your UAS (but not actually be very high in +Enhancement) then that seems good too. or just don't get your UAS enhanced, that isn't 'necessary' to have at low levels before your polearm flurry comes 'online' at 6th or whenever it happens. i was just explaining ways of not needing to flurry with the polearm because it's definitely workable and if that's how you fight until you can flurry with the polearm, it's not that bad. the game is based on slowly sequentially gaining more special abilities, you simply cant expect to depend on doing something that is special or unique (i.e. uses several feats/class abilities) directly from level 1, that's not how the game works, that's how the game rewards higher level characters. if that's so important to you, you need to start play from higher level.

i don't think any GM would have a problem with you flurrying with UAS while holding a polearm in 2 hands, any more than flurrying with UAS while holding a dead cat in 2 hands, or having your hands open, or having your arms

...

Thanks for all the continued feedback everyone. i think in some ways i wasn't specific enough early on in what i was looking for (for instance naming the thread "monk with a polearm" would've been much more accurate than "monk with reach"), and what i was mostly looking for was if being stuck using a polearm with the monk's 3/4 BAB (or maybe slightly worse due to a dip in another class) for AoO attacks or single attacks when i have to move and can't flurry would make those attacks too weak to consistently hit. it sounds like maybe they'd get by (while not necessarily being optimal. any final thoughts on that? i'll try to post what i've come down to at this point later if i can.


Quandary wrote:

+1

Kyoketsu Shoge also doesn't have 20 ft REACH, it has 20 ft RANGE INCREMENT,
i.e. when it's THROWN like a Dagger, but then it's no longer in your hand.
(I'm not sure if it's intended for the blade part to be detached when it is thrown)

It also functions as a normal Reach weapon, i.e. 10' Reach for a Medium character.

Quote:

The blade can be used as an off-hand melee weapon or thrown like a dagger,

while the rope and circlet can be whipped around and swung at opponents as a bludgeoning reach weapon.

The Reach is just normal Reach...

The weapon is basically a double weapon with 1 end being throwable (20' range increment).

the rope dart is a range wapon (use this if you're Dex focus). the kyoketsu is a reach weapon that disarms and grapples. (use this if you're STR focus).


Sorry about the error. How bout the horsechopper? Also known as Ji IRL.
Kung Fu Killers: 10 Deadliest Weapons
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kung-fu-killers-10-deadliest-weapons/


Unseelie wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:

weapons I like:

1)Kyoketsu shoge because of the 20 ft. reach and flurryable.
2)The Meteor hammer has 10 ft reach, trips does d8 damage drags enemies and gives you AC bonus. No flurry.

If you insist on single attacks with big 2 handed polearms take martial weapon prof. for Nodachi (crits better) and take all the Vital strikes and devastating blow feats you can to pump up the damage on single strikes and improve the critting. Make it keen so you don't have to take the improved critical feat. take critical focus instead (monks don't have many feats to spare). Use your reach to threaten and fight while keeping your distance. Deny them their full attacks. Power attack every chance you get. Power attack>imp bull rush(free for monks). If they get close bull rush, YOU DON'T MOVE AWAY. You force them to move. you have maneuver training bonus. Use it.

But Nodachi isn't a polearm, it's a sword and does not have reach.

You're right might I suggest the horsechopper instead?


Carry a guisarme (or other Reach weapon that allows Trips), especially if you're picking up Improved Trip at level 6. Even if you're not proficient in it and take a -4 penalty to attack rolls, its a Reach weapon and you'll probably have Combat Reflexes at 2nd level. Its a free attack, might as well take it. You can execute unarmed strikes, flurry, and execute Stuns with your knees and elbows - see the description of the monk's unarmed strikes and flurry class abilities. Its especially useful when Tripping because you only have to make a Touch attack, which is pretty easy even with a -4 penalty. If you fail the Trip, you can always drop the weapon that you really didn't need anyway (rather than get counter-Tripped).

I've also reconsidered ability scores. Should now look like this:
++STR>+WIS>+CON>DEX>INT>-CHA. Now not so MAD. Dex is more icing on the cake since WIS replaces DEX.

A guisarme is an 8-foot-long shaft with a blade and a hook mounted at the tip.

Guisarme(9 gp),2d4x3, 12 lbs. Slashing, reach,trip


I know this is 3.5 but I thou it might interest you. Introducing the Shou Disciple.
http://dndtools.eu/classes/shou-disciple/


Alejandro Acosta wrote:

Sorry about the error. How bout the horsechopper? Also known as Ji IRL.

Kung Fu Killers: 10 Deadliest Weapons
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kung-fu-killers-10-deadliest-weapons/

That was an interesting video. Although I think they essentially ranked the deadliest weapons backwards.


Blueluck wrote:
Alejandro Acosta wrote:

Sorry about the error. How bout the horsechopper? Also known as Ji IRL.

Kung Fu Killers: 10 Deadliest Weapons
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/kung-fu-killers-10-deadliest-weapons/
That was an interesting video. Although I think they essentially ranked the deadliest weapons backwards.

I agree.

Sczarni

Atarlost wrote:
If your GM doesn't permit single weapon flurry you need a non-flurry archetype. The only non-flurry monk that works as more than a dip is Sensei. You get a wannabe bard with a better fortitude save, but it's the best you can do.

The developers have released errata stating that you can in fact flurry with a single weapon (2 handed or otherwise).

Here's and idea - what about using the Double Chained Kama - only always use it as a 2 handed reach weapon?

It's exotic, so it costs a feat. But it's a Monk weapon so you can Flurry with it out of the gate - no cleric/fighter dips required. It also has the trip feature.

So here's how it breaks down: you flurry with your 2 handed reach weapon Kama. You only get 1x STR mod because you're a monk, but you get 3:1 return on power attacks because your a Monk.

But here's the part some people forget - when making AoO's you will get 1.5x STR on damage - which is a little perk for you even though it comes at the cost of the attack being made at your lower BAB.

So now you have a 10' reach and also threaten adjacent with your unarmed strikes. You also only ever need to enchant one end of the double chained Kama so it's a cost effective weapon choice.

If I was building this character I would use Alejandro's suggested stat array and take the Weapon Adept archetype. Human or Half-Elf so you can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at 1st level. Power Attack at 3rd. The archetype gives you weapon focus & specialization in place of evasion - so you still get your normal bonus feats (you'll have feats out the ying yang). Take combat reflexes for sure. Improved Trip is an option.

Maybe pick up QuickDraw along the way so that you can open combat with a "Perfect Strike" (with one of your other monk weapons) and then draw your double chained Kama as a free action.


Krodjin wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
If your GM doesn't permit single weapon flurry you need a non-flurry archetype. The only non-flurry monk that works as more than a dip is Sensei. You get a wannabe bard with a better fortitude save, but it's the best you can do.

The developers have released errata stating that you can in fact flurry with a single weapon (2 handed or otherwise).

Here's and idea - what about using the Double Chained Kama - only always use it as a 2 handed reach weapon?

It's exotic, so it costs a feat. But it's a Monk weapon so you can Flurry with it out of the gate - no cleric/fighter dips required. It also has the trip feature.

So here's how it breaks down: you flurry with your 2 handed reach weapon Kama. You only get 1x STR mod because you're a monk, but you get 3:1 return on power attacks because your a Monk.

But here's the part some people forget - when making AoO's you will get 1.5x STR on damage - which is a little perk for you even though it comes at the cost of the attack being made at your lower BAB.

So now you have a 10' reach and also threaten adjacent with your unarmed strikes. You also only ever need to enchant one end of the double chained Kama so it's a cost effective weapon choice.

If I was building this character I would use Alejandro's suggested stat array and take the Weapon Adept archetype. Human or Half-Elf so you can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at 1st level. Power Attack at 3rd. The archetype gives you weapon focus & specialization in place of evasion - so you still get your normal bonus feats (you'll have feats out the ying yang). Take combat reflexes for sure. Improved Trip is an option.

Maybe pick up QuickDraw along the way so that you can open combat with a "Perfect Strike" (with one of your other monk weapons) and then draw your double chained Kama as a free action.

i had completely forgotten about this thread as well as this build idea, but this has me thinking about it again - thanks


Krodjin wrote:
Atarlost wrote:
If your GM doesn't permit single weapon flurry you need a non-flurry archetype. The only non-flurry monk that works as more than a dip is Sensei. You get a wannabe bard with a better fortitude save, but it's the best you can do.

The developers have released errata stating that you can in fact flurry with a single weapon (2 handed or otherwise).

Here's and idea - what about using the Double Chained Kama - only always use it as a 2 handed reach weapon?

It's exotic, so it costs a feat. But it's a Monk weapon so you can Flurry with it out of the gate - no cleric/fighter dips required. It also has the trip feature.

So here's how it breaks down: you flurry with your 2 handed reach weapon Kama. You only get 1x STR mod because you're a monk, but you get 3:1 return on power attacks because your a Monk.

But here's the part some people forget - when making AoO's you will get 1.5x STR on damage - which is a little perk for you even though it comes at the cost of the attack being made at your lower BAB.

So now you have a 10' reach and also threaten adjacent with your unarmed strikes. You also only ever need to enchant one end of the double chained Kama so it's a cost effective weapon choice.

If I was building this character I would use Alejandro's suggested stat array and take the Weapon Adept archetype. Human or Half-Elf so you can take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at 1st level. Power Attack at 3rd. The archetype gives you weapon focus & specialization in place of evasion - so you still get your normal bonus feats (you'll have feats out the ying yang). Take combat reflexes for sure. Improved Trip is an option.

Maybe pick up QuickDraw along the way so that you can open combat with a "Perfect Strike" (with one of your other monk weapons) and then draw your double chained Kama as a free action.

hmm, maybe i could start with a lvl of unarmed fighter to automatically get the weapon proficiency as well as to get the bonus style feat.

Sczarni

^that may be a better way. After looking into this I realized that Exotic Weapon Prof requires BAB +1 so a human cant take it at level 1. The half elf still can via ancestral arms.

I'd still like to give this a go though... Tempted to go Temple Sword (it saves a feat), but that puts you adjacent to your enemies and a Monk who is out of reach seems like a Monk who would live longer...


Monk of the Empty Hand. You can use every weapon in the book, although they are improvised weapons for you - which is not necessarily a bad thing, since you can flurry with them. Two handed weapons do damage as a quarter staff for you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
mplindustries wrote:

Straight Sohei would get you the ability to flurry with a polearm by level 6--is there a reason you can't just do that? Do you need to flurry with a polearm before that?

It saves a BAB loss from dipping Cleric and gets you a Fighter's Weapon Training at the same time, too, so it should be easier to hit as well. Since it's the same feature, Gloves of Dueling (7500gp) will get you +2 to hit and damage with it, too.

Agreed+! The only reason I could see you not wanting to do this is if you wanted higher unarmed dmg... Other than that, this gives you what you are looking for without dipping.


No prerequisites for martial weapon proficiency. just take martial weapon Guisarme @ 1st lvl if you don't wanna wait for the +1 BAB for exotic wpn prof. Here's the stats from CRB:
Guisarme
A guisarme is an 8-foot-long shaft with a blade and a hook mounted at the tip.
Weapon Feature(s): reach, trip
Weapons Chart Entry

Guisarme(Martial) Two-Handed Melee: Cost 9gp, Dmg(S)1d6, Dmg(M)2d4, Critical x3, Range —, Weight 12 lbs. Type S, Special reach, trip

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