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Shadow jumping...elevator ride or death


Rules Questions

Qadira

So my question is this..if you have dim light through normal environment or by dropping a torch/sunrod/light cast on an item.. could you as a move action step off of a cliff or a hole in the roof (changing your speed to 500ft) and then shadow jump as a stand the last 10ft of the fall, thus negating all fall damage or would you still take the damage?

Shadow jump states that it works as dimension door with exceptions, does that mean you reappear in a location without transferring your "momentum?"


i would think your momentum transfers, otherwise there are problems when you dimension door around the surface of a planet rotating at tens of thousands of miles per hour.


There is a rule that teleportation doesn't change your momentum. I can't find it right now but I will keep looking. Basically you can't teleport to break your fall. If you are already falling and cast some form of teleportation, when you reach the ground you still take the falling damage. Also the rule says by the time you would have time to cast a teleportation spell you would already have fallen 500 feet.

I'll keep looking for it.


PRD wrote:
A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall. Casting a spell while falling requires a concentration check with a DC equal to 20 + the spell's level. Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.

Found it. It's under the Falling rules of the Core Rule Book. It is in the Environment section of the book.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

That rule is frankly bad. It opens a can of worms in regards to questions your players will very understandably want to know, which would be automatically ignored if you stuck with the more sensible effect of the subject automatically adjusting to the frame of reference of their destination and lose all comparative momentum. It's not even overpowered, because feather fall is a 1st level spell, and using something as potent as teleportation to evade falling damage will NOT harm balance.

What if you teleport in a different orientation, falling up? Why does it absorb the changes in orbital momentum, rotational momentum, and gravitational potential but not from the handful of kJ from relative velocity? Does interplanetary teleport automatically result in maximum falling damage? How does plane shift interact with this? Do you remain standing (or even take damage) if you enter or leave a ship through teleportation as you slide from the change?

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Virgil wrote:

That rule is frankly bad. It opens a can of worms in regards to questions your players will very understandably want to know, which would be automatically ignored if you stuck with the more sensible effect of the subject automatically adjusting to the frame of reference of their destination and lose all comparative momentum. It's not even overpowered, because feather fall is a 1st level spell, and using something as potent as teleportation to evade falling damage will NOT harm balance.

What if you teleport in a different orientation, falling up? Why does it absorb the changes in orbital momentum, rotational momentum, and gravitational potential but not from the handful of kJ from relative velocity? Does interplanetary teleport automatically result in maximum falling damage? How does plane shift interact with this? Do you remain standing (or even take damage) if you enter or leave a ship through teleportation as you slide from the change?

...Magic.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Ssalarn wrote:
Virgil wrote:

That rule is frankly bad. It opens a can of worms in regards to questions your players will very understandably want to know, which would be automatically ignored if you stuck with the more sensible effect of the subject automatically adjusting to the frame of reference of their destination and lose all comparative momentum. It's not even overpowered, because feather fall is a 1st level spell, and using something as potent as teleportation to evade falling damage will NOT harm balance.

What if you teleport in a different orientation, falling up? Why does it absorb the changes in orbital momentum, rotational momentum, and gravitational potential but not from the handful of kJ from relative velocity? Does interplanetary teleport automatically result in maximum falling damage? How does plane shift interact with this? Do you remain standing (or even take damage) if you enter or leave a ship through teleportation as you slide from the change?

...Magic.

So constructive, thanks. You're the best.

Sczarni

Ssalarn wrote:
...Magic.

I lol'd.

To be a bit more precise though...

1) I don't think you can change your orientation when you use teleport. It isn't a portal gun, just a moving from A to B. Now gate on the other hand...

2) I'm not a physicist but I'll take a crack at it anyway. I would say it does absorb the changes from the handful of kj from relative velocity. It's just that the subjects are so used to dealing with, and compensating for, that momentum that they don't perceive it as any big deal when they teleport.

3) I would think not. You aren't actually travelling from one planet to another in some kind of super speedy boom tube. You're just here, and then you're there. If you've never been to the other planet before then there is, of course, the chance for a potentially catastrophic mishap where you re-materialize a few thousand feet up.

4) Plane shift operate much the same way as teleport as I understand it, just between planes. If you're falling and you cast plane shift it won't change the outcome of your fall, you'll just fall on the other plane instead of this one.

5) I believe an acrobatics check would be in order here but yes. If you teleported from a ship travelling full speed on the high seas to a stationary location on land you would most certainly be sent hurling across the lawn, down the hill, into the wall, or off the cliff. Pick whichever scenario you find most humorous. The point, though, is your momentum still carries with you and you'll be "falling" sideways instead of down.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Corren28 wrote:

1) I don't think you can change your orientation when you use teleport. It isn't a portal gun, just a moving from A to B. Now gate on the other hand...

2) I'm not a physicist but I'll take a crack at it anyway. I would say it does absorb the changes from the handful of kj from relative velocity. It's just that the subjects are so used to dealing with, and compensating for, that momentum that they don't perceive it as any big deal when they teleport.

I, however, am a physicist. There is NO difference between teleporting between planets to that of teleporting from ship to/from land; in regards to caring about momentum. Orientation is equally relative, especially on spherical planets, otherwise you're always landing off-balance. There is no advantage to this change. It creates ambiguity, inconsistency, and free range for Gygaxian jerk DMs.

Sczarni

The amount of gravity on the other planet would come into play too, as well as atmospheric pressure. Even on a smaller scale, teleporting from sea level to the peak of Mt. Everest would have serious physical consequences on the body. Kinda like a diver coming to the surface too quickly.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Notice that they don't have rules for people getting the bends? It'd be a needlessly nit-picky rule to include that only hurts game play.

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