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"Master of Trade" Prestige Award


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

**

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is the "Master of Trade" prestige award available to members of the Qadira faction in PFS play and does it actually work as described in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide (I see nothing in the Additional Resources that indicates it isn't and doesn't)?

If so, does that mean my "Master of Trade" Qadiran character could add the determination quality to his armor for 27,000 gp instead of the 30,000 gp list price? Seems like a very good prestige award that scales quite nicely at the higher levels.

Scarab Sages ***

As far as I can tell it is allowed since the Field Guide is Core assumption. I don't think it skews the WBL curve by much so it isn't overpowered. Also, you still have to have the fame available for the total price of the item, even if you receive a discount.

If I'm mistaken, please let me know. I don't have many Qadiran players in my area, so I don't know this vanity well.

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide

All rules in this book are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play, and this book is considered part of the Core Assumption.

*****

graypark wrote:
If so, does that mean my "Master of Trade" Qadiran character could add the determination quality to his armor for 27,000 gp instead of the 30,000 gp list price? Seems like a very good prestige award that scales quite nicely at the higher levels.

From the wording of the vanity the discount only applies towards purchases, which would not include upgrading items. As an example you buy a +2 mithral breastplate in a single purchase you get the disount on the full cost of the item.

If you bought a non-magical mithral breastplate with the discount. You would have to pay the full 1000gp difference of upgrading it to a +1 item.

*** Contributor

graypark wrote:

Is the "Master of Trade" prestige award available to members of the Qadira faction in PFS play and does it actually work as described in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide (I see nothing in the Additional Resources that indicates it isn't and doesn't)?

If so, does that mean my "Master of Trade" Qadiran character could add the determination quality to his armor for 27,000 gp instead of the 30,000 gp list price? Seems like a very good prestige award that scales quite nicely at the higher levels.

It's available, but shouldn't be.

The problem is that trade goods and gems can be purchased in any amount and are completely fungible. Nothing prevents a Qadiran Master of Trade from buying, say, a 3000 gp gem for only 2700 gp. Then, in the next adventure, he buys a 3500 gp gem for 3150 gp (including, as part of his purchase price, the 3000 gp gem he previously bought). And so on.

In effect, after any scenario in which a Master of Trade doesn't buy anything, his available cash increases by 111%. This isn't RAI, I'm sure, but it's RAW until prohibited.

Masters of Trade, indeed!

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka WalterGM

Ron Lundeen wrote:
graypark wrote:

Is the "Master of Trade" prestige award available to members of the Qadira faction in PFS play and does it actually work as described in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide (I see nothing in the Additional Resources that indicates it isn't and doesn't)?

If so, does that mean my "Master of Trade" Qadiran character could add the determination quality to his armor for 27,000 gp instead of the 30,000 gp list price? Seems like a very good prestige award that scales quite nicely at the higher levels.

It's available, but shouldn't be.

The problem is that trade goods and gems can be purchased in any amount and are completely fungible. Nothing prevents a Qadiran Master of Trade from buying, say, a 3000 gp gem for only 2700 gp. Then, in the next adventure, he buys a 3500 gp gem for 3150 gp (including, as part of his purchase price, the 3000 gp gem he previously bought). And so on.

In effect, after any scenario in which a Master of Trade doesn't buy anything, his available cash increases by 111%. This isn't RAI, I'm sure, but it's RAW until prohibited.

Masters of Trade, indeed!

Isn't any gear you sell sold back at half price? Even if it's a solid gold bar worth exactly 100 gp, there's no guarantee you'll get that out of it.

And if you argue that gems/gold bars are flat amounts of wealth, and aren't sold at half price (they're different currency, not actual items), then you can't apply MOT to the initial purchase.

Either they are items (bought cheaper, and sold back for 1/2 price) or they are currency (acquired for exact cost - not cheaper, and "traded back" for the same).

EDIT: for clarity.

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
graypark wrote:
If so, does that mean my "Master of Trade" Qadiran character could add the determination quality to his armor for 27,000 gp instead of the 30,000 gp list price? Seems like a very good prestige award that scales quite nicely at the higher levels.

From the wording of the vanity the discount only applies towards purchases, which would not include upgrading items. As an example you buy a +2 mithral breastplate in a single purchase you get the disount on the full cost of the item.

If you bought a non-magical mithral breastplate with the discount. You would have to pay the full 1000gp difference of upgrading it to a +1 item.

^^^This

*** Contributor

Walter Sheppard wrote:
And if you argue that gems/gold bars are flat amounts of wealth, and aren't sold at half price (they're different currency, not actual items), then you can't apply MOT to the initial purchase.

This would be a good exclusion from Master of Trade. But as currently drafted, I believe the only exclusion is for spell components.


Michael Brock wrote:
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
graypark wrote:
If so, does that mean my "Master of Trade" Qadiran character could add the determination quality to his armor for 27,000 gp instead of the 30,000 gp list price? Seems like a very good prestige award that scales quite nicely at the higher levels.

From the wording of the vanity the discount only applies towards purchases, which would not include upgrading items. As an example you buy a +2 mithral breastplate in a single purchase you get the disount on the full cost of the item.

If you bought a non-magical mithral breastplate with the discount. You would have to pay the full 1000gp difference of upgrading it to a +1 item.

^^^This

Thank you! People have been waiting for a response on this one for a while.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka WalterGM

Ron Lundeen wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
And if you argue that gems/gold bars are flat amounts of wealth, and aren't sold at half price (they're different currency, not actual items), then you can't apply MOT to the initial purchase.
This would be a good exclusion from Master of Trade. But as currently drafted, I believe the only exclusion is for spell components.

Hmm, I disagree. I think the wording of MOT makes it clear that it's designed for purchases only, not gem trading.

Master of Trade wrote:

Master of Trade (Fame 20, 4 PP)Using faction contacts

and mercantile experience, you can always get yourself
the best deal when buying goods. Once per game session,
you may make any single purchase you could normally
make at a 10% discount. This discount is not available on
spellcasting services or material components.

If I go to the bank, and get my paycheck turned into cash -- I'm making a purchase? O.o'

Let me rephrase what I stated before: "If you argue that gems/gold bars are flat amounts of and aren't sold at half price (they're different currency, not actual items), then you can't apply MOT to the initial purchase since it wasn't a purchase to begin with. It was a currency exchange."

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

oneplus999 wrote:


Thank you! People have been waiting for a response on this one for a while.

No problem. Also added it to the compilation post.

Liberty's Edge *****

Walter Sheppard wrote:
Ron Lundeen wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
And if you argue that gems/gold bars are flat amounts of wealth, and aren't sold at half price (they're different currency, not actual items), then you can't apply MOT to the initial purchase.
This would be a good exclusion from Master of Trade. But as currently drafted, I believe the only exclusion is for spell components.

Hmm, I disagree. I think the wording of MOT makes it clear that it's designed for purchases only, not gem trading.

Master of Trade wrote:

Master of Trade (Fame 20, 4 PP)Using faction contacts

and mercantile experience, you can always get yourself
the best deal when buying goods. Once per game session,
you may make any single purchase you could normally
make at a 10% discount. This discount is not available on
spellcasting services or material components.

If I go to the bank, and get my paycheck turned into cash -- I'm making a purchase? O.o'

Let me rephrase what I stated before: "If you argue that gems/gold bars are flat amounts of and aren't sold at half price (they're different currency, not actual items), then you can't apply MOT to the initial purchase since it wasn't a purchase to begin with. It was a currency exchange."

I agree with Walter on this. If Gems are sold at full price (or can be used as currency), then getting a Gem is not available with Master of Trade, because gems are currency, not goods to be purchased.

*** Contributor

Walter Sheppard wrote:
If I go to the bank, and get my paycheck turned into cash -- I'm making a purchase?

How else do you get that 3,000 gp gem, except by purchasing it?

*** Contributor

Michael Brock wrote:
oneplus999 wrote:


Thank you! People have been waiting for a response on this one for a while.

No problem. Also added it to the compilation post.

Thanks, Mike! Can we also get clarity that, in addition to the restriction that you can't get discounted spellcasting or material components with Master of Trade, that you also can't get a discount on anything that you are able to resell for full value?

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Ron Lundeen wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
oneplus999 wrote:


Thank you! People have been waiting for a response on this one for a while.

No problem. Also added it to the compilation post.

Thanks, Mike! Can we also get clarity that, in addition to the restriction that you can't get discounted spellcasting or material components with Master of Trade, that you also can't get a discount on anything that you are able to resell for full value?

Clarification is right here. Thanks for posting that. Discounted spell casting or material components are not available at a discount per the description already written, and you can't receive a discount on anything you would normally be able to sell for full value. Since this entire thread is already linked in the compilation post, we should be good to go now.

*** Contributor

Andrew Christian wrote:
I agree with Walter on this. If Gems are sold at full price (or can be used as currency), then getting a Gem is not available with Master of Trade, because gems are currency, not goods to be purchased.

I think we're all in agreement with the intent. But that's not the way Master of Trade is written. Let's say you want to purchase a pound of platinum, which is listed in the CRB as a "trade good" (and can be resold at full value). If "Master of Trade" which "lets you get the best deal when buying goods" won't let you purchase this "trade good," then a rules clarification needs to be made--because RAW you could buy that pound of platinum with the discount.

I'm not trying to get away with anything here: I'm trying to get the rules nailed down on this issue, and I'd like to to prohibit purchase of trade goods just as much as you would.

*** Contributor

Michael Brock wrote:
Clarification is right here. Thanks for posting that. Discounted spell casting or material components are not available at a discount per the description already written, and you can't receive a discount on anything you would normally be able to sell for full value. Since this entire thread is already linked in the compilation post, we should be good to go now.

Ah, blessed resolution! Thanks, and I'm all done here. :)

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington , Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015 aka WalterGM

Glorious day!

The Exchange ****

Master of Trade is still very strong. Something like 10,000 gold by the time you hit 12 is pretty good from 4PP. (Assuming you spent the money you earn before reaching 20 fame).

Shadow Lodge **

Benrislove wrote:
Master of Trade is still very strong. Something like 10,000 gold by the time you hit 12 is pretty good from 4PP. (Assuming you spent the money you earn before reaching 20 fame).

Kind of hard to get this amount of money in savings when you can't upgrade anything for a discount.

The Exchange ****

Serum wrote:
Benrislove wrote:
Master of Trade is still very strong. Something like 10,000 gold by the time you hit 12 is pretty good from 4PP. (Assuming you spent the money you earn before reaching 20 fame).
Kind of hard to get this amount of money in savings when you can't upgrade anything for a discount.

not really. Ring of freedom of movement, Metamagic rods, boots of speed, anything that gives flight, bracers of archery.

There are plenty of wonderous items that aren't upgrade-able, but are awesome.

I will admit, it's much better for casters than fighters, as you're likely to upgrading weapons and such more with martial classes.

Still it's easily the most powerful faction reward.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Benrislove wrote:
Still it's easily the most powerful faction reward.

Powerful is a relative term. I still think Osirion's 1/2 cost rez is nice. Shadow Lodge's no man behind can be a saver as well.

All in the eye of the beholder. Except Synthesists (I kid).

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CRobledo wrote:
eye of the beholder

Wrong game!

*****

The OP didn't broach this subject in his post, I overlooked adding it to my original reply, and it seems no one thought to mention it for clarification.

You have to make sure you check the availability of the item being purchased with fame access using its full standard price, and not the discounted price when using fame to buy an item. The discount only kicks in at time of purchase.

If the discounted price is under your character's fame gp cap, and the items normal listed price is over the fame's gp cap then you can't make the purchase.

The Exchange ****

CRobledo wrote:
Benrislove wrote:
Still it's easily the most powerful faction reward.

Powerful is a relative term. I still think Osirion's 1/2 cost rez is nice. Shadow Lodge's no man behind can be a saver as well.

All in the eye of the beholder. Except Synthesists (I kid).

8 free PP, or 2 free PP on a body recovery are nice, but ultimately the gold saved by MoT is more than the gold cost of a raise dead. so that is better than a half price rez (though it's easier to get greedy and spend all your gold!)

Still though, all of them are pretty reasonable overall.

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